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Discussion Juber's gbg suggestions

Owl II

Owl II

Emperor
Retired Guy said:
GBG on live servers, especially at Diamond level is very different than beta.. massive guilds\guild members.. just look at the number of Atomium's in live now.. and once AI Core comes out, they'll run it to lvl 80 in a couple days. These guys are doing 5-10 minute sector swaps for the entire map every 4 hrs, easily 10,000 battles, Not sure you can ever come up with a David vs Goliath solution.. guilds wanting to specialize in GBG will simply grow to the required size, and monopolize the map.
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Agree. You can make any changes to this feeder. Someone may like these changes or not. But the result will be the same: the players will adapt. But there will be those who do not want to adapt and will demand that the game be adapted to them (we don't want to build our treasury, so nerfed camps for everyone. We don't want to gather a team to storm the starting province, so remove the attrition in it. and so on). But I don't see a single suggestion to remove the feeder and replace it with competitive gameplay for guilds, as it was conceived at the very beginning.
 
jovada

jovada

Regent
Owl II said:
Agree. You can make any changes to this feeder. Someone may like these changes or not. But the result will be the same: the players will adapt. But there will be those who do not want to adapt and will demand that the game be adapted to them (we don't want to build our treasury, so nerfed camps for everyone. We don't want to gather a team to storm the starting province, so remove the attrition in it. and so on). But I don't see a single suggestion to remove the feeder and replace it with competitive gameplay for guilds, as it was conceived at the very beginning.
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The big fighting clubs will always be the strongest that is not the point, it' s not that the other guilds want to beat them, It is about making it more attractive for everyone and not only the fighting clubs.
And for normal guilds it's not that they don't want to build treasury, and it's not that they don't have a starting team. but you can start and take sector , maybe two and then you are blocked by fighting clubs and 4h later you loose those two and they leave a 159/160, with no attrition around hq they have at least a chance to take back a sector and more important do some fights (they also likes the rewards)
Further a normal guild build a treasury ,but a normal guild accept new players and help them and if they want to buy SC very often have to pay also irongoods and no guild has a big treasury there.
So if you want to have a chance in GbG and compete with fighting clubs you must change a guild into fighting club, rejecting all players that do not 1000 fights , rejecting all players that are not at least future era, so real guilds are condamned to just look at the map and wait every second GbG to drop down a league so they can also enjoy a bit of the GbG.
You increase the gap with normal players more and more , and FOE is becoming a game for the maybe 5% of big whales that have time to do fights all day and night long.
 
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DEADP00L

DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
To demonstrate that @jovada was right, my guild on the French server is made up of 20 members in total, divided into 11 different eras. Because we have fun at best once in two GbGs, our treasury lists between 300k and 700k of each resource in the represented eras.
We could therefore put lots of camps while paying the diamonds but we don't often have the possibility to do it.
We could also recruit, but we favor our family spirit over recruitment, which often destroys a guild from the inside.
We participate as much as we can in GbG, but that's not our only goal, we try to have fun in all possible areas (except in GvG because 90% of players are on phones).
We do not claim to beat the strongest but to find ourselves confronting against guilds of our capacity to have fun with each GbG. Not for rewards but just for fun!
 
outoftheline

outoftheline

Squire
super unpopular opinion: i dont want to play against similar guilds and i dont want gbg to get more competitve, because it's too much work.
when there is an "off season" where we don't stand a chance, i am glad, because i dont "have to" play as much. it's hard to restrict yourself with GBG, too much FOMO going on. i see a lot of people suffering from playing it to much eventually.
i think it's irresponsible to create features that need a lot of effort and basically constant online times throughout the whole day in order to work well for "good guilds".
 
Owl II

Owl II

Emperor
jovada said:
The big fighting clubs will always be the strongest that is not the point, it' s not that the other guilds want to beat them, It is about making it more attractive for everyone and not only the fighting clubs.
And for normal guilds it's not that they don't want to build treasury, and it's not that they don't have a starting team. but you can start and take sector , maybe two and then you are blocked by fighting clubs and 4h later you loose those two and they leave a 159/160, with no attrition around hq they have at least a chance to take back a sector and more important do some fights (they also likes the rewards)
Further a normal guild build a treasury ,but a normal guild accept new players and help them and if they want to buy SC very often have to pay also irongoods and no guild has a big treasury there.
So if you want to have a chance in GbG and compete with fighting clubs you must change a guild into fighting club, rejecting all players that do not 1000 fights , rejecting all players that are not at least future era, so real guilds are condamned to just look at the map and wait every second GbG to drop down a league so they can also enjoy a bit of the GbG.
You increase the gap with normal players more and more , and FOE is becoming a game for the maybe 5% of big whales that have time to do fights all day and night long.
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It is necessary to create conditions under which two strong guilds will not be able to technically strangle the rest of the participants. It takes a lot of sectors for these two to be unable to cope. Or you need to remove the SC. Then the guilds will gain depletion before the day is over. And others will get their chance.

And you are right absolutely: the intensity that a successful game requires is beyond reasonable. No one in their right mind will guard the map 24/7. So, it is worth thinking not about how to stick patches on this sick system, but about how to make it healthy. But who will do it? Alas, we are playing that what is...
 
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Juber

Juber

Overlord
Community Manager
outoftheline said:
super unpopular opinion: i dont want to play against similar guilds and i dont want gbg to get more competitve, because it's too much work.
when there is an "off season" where we don't stand a chance, i am glad, because i dont "have to" play as much. it's hard to restrict yourself with GBG, too much FOMO going on. i see a lot of people suffering from playing it to much eventually.
i think it's irresponsible to create features that need a lot of effort and basically constant online times throughout the whole day in order to work well for "good guilds".
Click to expand...
But even for this playstyle I think my ideas are an improvement. This is simply because you can't do that much anymore with these changed. (Btw. the more I write, the more I like the idea to increase the attrition reduction for camps and making them multiplicative ^^)
So instead of having to do 1000 fights a day to be very active, you get to your limit way faster.
It would also bring in a bit more tactic again: Should I fight now or wait until later? Should we try this province?

I believe the major points are: It is too boring to do so many fights (but you have to, because you can do it and get many rewards), high LP (and 0 LP) battlegrounds are not balanced and if you fight against stronger guilds, you have almost no chance to even participate in the battleground.
This is what I focused on, when writing down these ideas :)
 
DEADP00L

DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
outoftheline said:
i dont want to play against similar guilds and i dont want gbg to get more competitve, because it's too much work.
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I don't want more competitiveness every week, I want to be able to choose when I'm ready to be competitive and when I want to play calm.
Not that the game imposes the case on me!
 
Juber

Juber

Overlord
Community Manager
DEADP00L said:
I don't want more competitiveness every week, I want to be able to choose when I'm ready to be competitive and when I want to play calm.
Not that the game imposes the case on me!
Click to expand...
Well, you can always decide when you want to play gbg and when not :p
 
Owl II

Owl II

Emperor
There was much more justice and common sense in GBG when there were no buildings there (SC and others), when attrition had reasonable limits. But devs needed to solve the problem of where to attach the surplus goods in the treasury from AF and above. And they decided. Now we have this circus instead of a good concept. And we talk about how to make this feeder more comfortable for everyone.
 

Pericles the Lion

Emperor
jovada said:
So if you want to have a chance in GbG and compete with fighting clubs you must change a guild into fighting club, rejecting all players that do not 1000 fights , rejecting all players that are not at least future era, so real guilds are condamned to just look at the map and wait every second GbG to drop down a league so they can also enjoy a bit of the GbG.
Click to expand...
I don't think that this is necessary. In the US, baseball operates several tiers of minor leagues (A, AA, AAA) as well as the big show. It's worked pretty well for over a century. IMO, the problem with GBG is that movement from copper to diamond is too easily accomplished and this results in "A" league teams being matched up with the Majors. Fix that and a lot of the "fairness" concerns evaporate. Guilds that prefer to be training grounds can continue to their hearts content while the fighting guilds will still be able to attract the player type they prefer. Players will be able to decide what playground they want and adjust their styles accordingly so as to make themselves attractive to their chosen guild. There have been countless suggestions offered in this, and other, forums. Almost all of which have too many moving parts. Keep it simple and, maybe, INNO will listen.
 
jovada

jovada

Regent
outoftheline said:
super unpopular opinion: i dont want to play against similar guilds and i dont want gbg to get more competitve, because it's too much work.
when there is an "off season" where we don't stand a chance, i am glad, because i dont "have to" play as much. it's hard to restrict yourself with GBG, too much FOMO going on. i see a lot of people suffering from playing it to much eventually.
i think it's irresponsible to create features that need a lot of effort and basically constant online times throughout the whole day in order to work well for "good guilds".
Click to expand...

And that is why we want to make it more attractive for all guilds, so you can play when you want and not be restricted and obliged to wait every two seasons to enjoy GbG.
 
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Yekk

Regent
Juber... Inno let the Genie out of the bottle. It can not be put back in... The players who count (those that buy diamonds) will quit if your changes happen. Your take on balance is no one should be able to "win" in GBG. Real life does not work that way.

Balancing GBG is as easy as first taking that atrocity of a GB you have for Jupiter and making it a no age GB with like costs of leveling it up. It was put in to balance guilds that need goods but its current cost (FP) does the opposite.

Leave most of what is GBG alone. Smaller changes only on the board. 5-6 guilds for diamond. The option of staying in Platinum for guilds. Founders must choose if they want to move to diamond. Or if they want to remain in platinum.

Your point system is still broken. A metrics system based on actual results from GBG over time, guild player strength, guild treasuries will match up guilds better than what we have and much better than what you suggest.

Level 180 Arc players are not a bad thing. With out the chance of getting "rich" why would anyone play GBG? Work towards that by helping guild treasuries out. My first cellphone was in 1985. A big brick that cost me up to $2K a month in phone charges. Now everyone has one. Work with your genie not in removing it.
 
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