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Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

Beta King

Viceroy
Must be testing only on certain servers as there is great support for the first 3-4 rings for us this round and we didnt have any issue swapping the map last season that i can remember. Maybe that is the plan to scare us into thinking they are going to cap % while backdoor reducing the slots and they scrap the nerf and let the fewer slots do the desired work.
 

King Flush

Marquis
Uh…. Players were spending well before Guilds ever had the Guild Treasury to build and sustain 5 Siege Camps….. and they were also spending before Guild Battlegrounds even existed. There’s no evidence to support that players wouldn’t have spent *any* money on account of Guild Battlegrounds if Siege Camps had a max cap from the start.

Could it have reduced the total spending if it had been like that from the start? Sure. But they still would have made money from it regardless.
of course people spent money on diamonds before GBG but I still think it's been a cash cow for them, I am telling you I would have not spent money on the game without GBG being as it is currently and I'm sure I'm not alone, indeed everyone I know who has spent money has been to improve GBG performance so even if you just count me alone there is evidence.
 

mcbluefire

Baronet
When I spend money it was to get a large bank of diamonds for upcoming event buildings or diamond only expansions. However, I do find quite a few of my diamonds flowing to GbG, but not at 10-20K a season or anything like that. I could easily supplement my game play with my diamond farms across the other 20+ worlds, but I find the time spent in those to be a bigger drain than getting diamonds at the right offering from Inno.

As for the perception of dwindling bulding slots on the map - this is the inherent flaw of using RNG to determine where slots will be on a map. One of the negatives of GbG. Entry should be strategic and predetermined with each map possibly having a few pre-configured building layouts that give all guilds a somewhat level playing field to reach the center. With so much randomness used including starting location a guild can find themselves without SC support up to two sectors out season after season which is ridiculous. Alternatively a lucky guild can find themselves with 3SC+ support after getting the first two sectors all the way up to the middle season after season. Really silly this is a thing.

Final observation on this - with RNG as a factor one cannot determine that building slots are shrinking season over season as that could be blown away next season.
 

Beta King

Viceroy
of course people spent money on diamonds before GBG but I still think it's been a cash cow for them, I am telling you I would have not spent money on the game without GBG being as it is currently and I'm sure I'm not alone, indeed everyone I know who has spent money has been to improve GBG performance so even if you just count me alone there is evidence.
This ^ applies to me as well. I doubt i would even be playing if in the beginning GBG was like GE where you dont need coordination with the guild to get on and just burn your daily allowed amount and log off.
 

Owl II

Emperor
Final observation on this - with RNG as a factor one cannot determine that building slots are shrinking season over season as that could be blown away next season.
No, it's not shrinking. Formally, we have from 54 (min) to 64 (max) slots in any season. And on any map, by the way. But we came such an arrangement in which every second tile on 4 lines was with slots. All 4 tiles in the center had only 2 slots. 5 of the 8 tiles of the second line were with 1 slot. It was on the volcano map. We are playing on the waterfall map on beta right now. And we got a terrible map. The whole fourth line is 1 or 0 slots. Only 2 tiles with 2 slots. 4 tiles on 3 lines contain 2 slots, the rest contain 1 slot. I have met (or heard about) such an extremely inconvenient slot arrangement only once in the entire history of GBG earlier. But I have met this several times in the last 2 months
 

-Alin-

Emperor
Still no official announcement on the live servers 2 days from the next GbG!
We are therefore going to start a new test season next week, and again without any modification, even slight, after 2 months of feedback.
InnoGames being InnoGames, what You really expected from them? :)

I am waiting one more month, on 14-15 October (can't remember the exact day, I no longer have access to that email adress and older live account) to make exactly 10 years of playing FoE, then I can quit FoE peacefully, I reached all my targets on this game, and it is no longer fun to play it, not on the actual state the game is today, I feel it like a burden, and I wasn't a constant player, just playing it casually rather than extorting and exploiting every bit and pixel of this game :.))
 

Emberguard

Emperor
of course people spent money on diamonds before GBG but I still think it's been a cash cow for them, I am telling you I would have not spent money on the game without GBG being as it is currently and I'm sure I'm not alone, indeed everyone I know who has spent money has been to improve GBG performance so even if you just count me alone there is evidence.
Problem with that assertion that you wouldn’t have spent it on something if it hadn’t existed, is this is all you’ve ever known. If it hadn’t existed, you wouldn’t have known any better.
 

Yekk

Regent
Problem with that assertion that you wouldn’t have spent it on something if it hadn’t existed, is this is all you’ve ever known. If it hadn’t existed, you wouldn’t have known any better.
GBG gave people a real reason to increase their att/def. Although some here will say otherwise many worlds have transitioned from 2 guilds stuffing the rest of the map. Time has given dozens of guilds the treasuries to compete. This means most worlds now have hundreds of players with level 130 arcs on dozens of guilds. My world has over 1000 arcs over 100. The thought it is totally broken is wrong. It did give players a reason to spend.

I agree GBG needs work but I was trained as a structural engineer. Piecemeal fixes are worse than no fixes at all. They may seem to help but will break other parts of the game. My live guild is 1K as normal. We have 6 guilds that can not build. Their treasuries will not allow them to do so. Waterfall so the top 2 guilds will take EFAB, the best next 2 get CD and the rest can farm. Greed did not make the treasuries weak for the 6 guilds. Inno did. The nerf does not fix their treasuries. It does not allow them to fight in a league where they can do their best.
 

Emberguard

Emperor
GBG gave people a real reason to increase their att/def.
The thought it is totally broken is wrong. It did give players a reason to spend.
yes, it gave a reason to spend. Not debating that. The reason would have been the same if SCs had been reduced from the start. Also at the start Attrition only went up to 100, not the 150 we have now, and had a different curve on boost increases.

Had siege camps been different from the beginning, it’s possible that may have also influenced the degree the attrition gains were changed when it went from 100 to 150.


I agree GBG needs work but I was trained as a structural engineer. Piecemeal fixes are worse than no fixes at all. They may seem to help but will break other parts of the game.
Yeah. The issues GBG has likely need either a lot more than any one change can accomplish, or a total overhaul.
 

Yekk

Regent
yes, it gave a reason to spend. Not debating that. The reason would have been the same if SCs had been reduced from the start. Also at the start Attrition only went up to 100, not the 150 we have now, and had a different curve on boost increases.

Had siege camps been different from the beginning, it’s possible that may have also influenced the degree the attrition gains were changed when it went from 100 to 150.



Yeah. The issues GBG has likely need either a lot more than any one change can accomplish, or a total overhaul.
When the CF came out it was considered a very poor GB. Players ran it to 10. BUT there was no Arcs yet. Until an overpowered insane Arc GB came out CF was not ran. I argue that your saying players would spend as much to do GBG if the nerf was what we got 2 1/2 years ago is flawed by this reality. Many complained on the Arc too. I can guess it will be the next nerf huh... GBG with the nerf only works if guilds are in leagues that they can grow from.

The issues with GBG need to be addressed and not one wrong fix at a time...
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
When the CF came out it was considered a very poor GB. Players ran it to 10. BUT there was no Arcs yet. Until an overpowered insane Arc GB came out CF was not ran. I argue that your saying players would spend as much to do GBG if the nerf was what we got 2 1/2 years ago is flawed by this reality. Many complained on the Arc too. I can guess it will be the next nerf huh... GBG with the nerf only works if guilds are in leagues that they can grow from.

The issues with GBG need to be addressed and not one wrong fix at a time...
There were people who considered CF the top GB pre-arc... It was not a hugely popular opinion, but those holding it were usually amongst the top players - major influencers in the economy of the world. The concept of building the perpetual motion machine (or close to it) to make FP was huge at the time - because the best cities of the day were maybe getting 100-200 or so FP from collection, so the work to get a 5 FP pack 1 of every 14 quests completed seemed worth it. A functional indefinite quest loop could net you around 100 FP an hour along with many many goods to trade or supply GvG.

Arc just made it easier to level so others went and got one too and went "this *is* great". Which was kinda the problem with Arc - before it you really had to commit to what building you valued. Some went Traz, Some went CF, Some went Cape, Some went CdM. It was a major difference in strategies and there were perks to each. After Arc, everyone did all of the above. And several more they wouldn't have even considered before.
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
As for nerfing arc, my position on that shifted over time:

When it came out I was excited for it, and would've been disappointed by a nerf because I didn't see everything coming, just that it was *really* good.

When I started to see its full potential, I was in favor of a nerf. There would've been a few people that would've gotten a large advantage, but the majority would still be on a relatively fair playing field.

When years passed and "everyone" had one, I started to feel it was impossible to nerf, because it'd create an unfair wall for those who hadn't already taken advantage. There would always be literally hundreds of people on each world with these super-buildings, and the path to get there for a new player wouldn't really be there.

Now I think they could nerf it again, because it wouldn't have near the impact it once would have at slowing people down... There's so much raw FP production now that people could power through without an arc. It might add like 30-40k FP cost per building to get it through the "was-sweet-spot" - but that's only like a month from once your city is well-developed with event buildings - and even less if you insert yourself into a GBG farmers guild. And that's if the bonus was eliminated entirely. If it got lowered to like 1.5 instead of 1.9 at 80, the loss would be even more manageable. But given that reasoning, I also don't really see the point of nerfing it anymore. It wouldn't return the strategy to the game.
 
Also at the start Attrition only went up to 100, not the 150 we have now, and had a different curve on boost increases.
Attrition was and still is presumably infinite, I've gone over 250 and I've seen people much higher
however at first, they stopped increasing the attack/defence boost of the enemy army and the negotiation goods amount, at 100

so that change was a nerf not an improvement

using this as justification is saying a nerf is justified because another nerf happened
 

Emberguard

Emperor
Attrition was and still is presumably infinite, I've gone over 250 and I've seen people much higher
however at first
Attrition caps at 12,000%, well before 250

using this as justification is saying a nerf is justified because another nerf happened
Not saying that at all. I’m saying the order in which changes are made will impact the degree of future changes, or if they even happen

If the argument of the other person is “if Siege Camps had been nerfed at the start, I wouldn’t have spent any money”, then you also need to account for the fact that (1) this isn’t the first change. GBG was different at the start (2) if the Siege Camps functioned differently from the start, then we may have got a completely different set of change throughout the GBG lifecycle. It’s impossible to know what the game would look like now if the game had taken a different path beyond pure speculation on what we think it’d look like, therefore it’s also impossible to say whether we’d have spent money: this isn’t the only change. What we can say for certain is if we’d spend on the current version with or without the nerf
 

CrashBoom

Legend
Attrition was and still is presumably infinite, I've gone over 250 and I've seen people much higher

like the Arc (and all other GB) the levels are also infinite: so you can level it up to 9000 if you have enough FP

Attrition caps at 12,000%, well before 250
attrition attack penalty caps at 12k% . that is level 150
attrition level doesn't cap ;)

so a player with attrition 150 is fighting against the same enemy boost as a player at 250

similar to the Arc boost (not the goods part)
a player with level 180 Arc has the same reward boost as the player at level 9000 :D
because the Arc reward boost caps at level 180 but the Arc is unlimited ;)
 

DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
Creation of a new world on the most played servers starting Thursday, September 22.
So first GbG achievable from Thursday, September 29th.
Wouldn't this be the first Gbg with the nerf for live servers?
Nothing better than a large-scale real test to get usable feedback.
 

esoterism

Squire
WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO PROVIDE A SOLUTION TO THE CbG NIGHTMARE ?????????????? PROVDE A SOLUTION OR SUPPRESS IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PPPPPLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
 

HunZ95

Squire
Creation of a new world on the most played servers starting Thursday, September 22.
So first GbG achievable from Thursday, September 29th.
Wouldn't this be the first Gbg with the nerf for live servers?
Nothing better than a large-scale real test to get usable feedback.
In 1 week, many players will surely get to the point where they have a suitable city for gbg...
 
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