Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

[zookeepers]

... The qualifications that make a player a "big hitter" will change significantly. Currently, in live, a massive A/D is not required if the player mostly hits zero attrition sectors. Instead, a player with a modest A/D (500/300), a L60 Traz, and a schedule where he can play overnight can easily rack up 5K+ battles in a strong guild. After the SC change this won't happen anymore. ... Guilds wanting to recruit new era "big hitters" will need to search for players with massive A/D, high level Traz/AO, and compatable schedules. But wait...these players are already in the top guilds.

SC nerfing looks like it's done in order to weaken the big guilds who monopolize the center sectors utilizing the slots, but in reality it actually benefits the maga-guilds. Making it impossible to gain huge income (of FP) by free fights, also benefits the veteran players who already hold properties.

 

[Owl II]

If Inno cares about the small and weak, let Inno will take them by the handle and take them to another sandbox. Because the "greedy egoists" are still here. And they are still able to corner the small and weak. That won't change. If Inno cares about excessive rewards, let Inno nerfed rewards. I personally will not object. I don't know how the others will react to this. If Inno is concerned that players spend too much time in the game, let inno increase the time of blocking provinces to 8 hours. It will be perfect, in my opinion. What they have done does not solve any of GBG's problems. It can only reduce the load on the server.

 

[Markus Stormrider]

well, if inno really only wants to cap the things the big players can do, why not just put a hard cap on # of hourly (or daily) actions on GSP instead? that way people can just continue to play it as they wish, except they have to wait X time before they can continue

 

[DEADP00L]

well, if inno really only wants to cap the things the big players can do, why not just put a hard cap on # of hourly (or daily) actions on GSP instead? that way people can just continue to play it as they wish, except they have to wait X time before they can continue

Like what happens in the arena?
Example: 100 daily fights then 5 diamonds per additional fight?

 

[Markus Stormrider]

Like what happens in the arena?
Example: 100 daily fights then 5 diamonds per additional fight?

why not and those diamond costs gradually increase ofc (or just make us pay meds instead )
oh and 100 is a bit low, i'd say 600 minimum (fights and negotations combined; regardless of win/loss too)

 

[jovada]

Yep we're all greedy selfish Bar......ds NOT, in fact intimating successful guilds that are willing to put the effort in are is damn right insulting
Just a small section from our GBG reinvestment thread below our whole premise on setting the guild up was to be successful in GBG using the rewards to reinvest into junior players, yes I'll often get close to 1k fights a day and also hit Att of 120 plus every day if taking the whole map as some of you intimate then its impossible to do Att free. This neft will hit our juniors twice very hard first up not getting the rewards and secondarily we won't be reinvesting so much

My main town i have 2329/922 att/def and also reach 120 easyly.
My town is also build for attacking but i still collect +700 fp every day often reaching 1000 fp with Him, Space and Island. What i collect in GbG is an extra few hundreds fp ( i never did 1000 fights a day , maybe 300 because i'm not afraid to take sectors with full attrition and not waiting till i can play with 0)

So don't use the excuse of not farming depending your help for junior players, because what most of you do is in fact just convert your fp by dropping them in a 1.9 thread to receive them back in stock.
It's only up to you, you help them or not , but don't use it as an excuse for the nerf of camps.

 

[xivarmy]

well, if inno really only wants to cap the things the big players can do, why not just put a hard cap on # of hourly (or daily) actions on GSP instead? that way people can just continue to play it as they wish, except they have to wait X time before they can continue

Because attrition *is* supposed to be the daily cap. Just one you can alter from higher military bonuses and siege camps.

The problem with siege camps is they have hyperbolic scaling, effectively turning attrition into a non-factor in certain situations.

 

[djd786]

Well unfortunately it is likely fact, because 'fixes' they make here take 6 weeks to move to live servers. And this re-balance is a fix, not a new feature

Let me try to make a point why Inno wants to do this so called balancing act for GBG.
Inno has reached a point where they cannot offer anything new to the players. They are just trying to introduce more and more events each year with different types of fancy event buildings. Introducing new buildings with improved stats is also reaching a saturation point.

Bu doing this nerf, inno will get a great scope to reduce attack capabilities of players doing regular GBG. This will then help them to come up with new buildings in future events with higher attack and defence stats. Players will purchase diamonds to get those buildings to boost their attack stats for GBG.

What I can understand is that this is done by inno to indirectly increase their diamond sales.
Inno cannot be so dumb to do a fix after 3 years of introducing GBG. Players like us have been raising this issue of GBG from long time.

The new Fellowship event is just a copy paste of Forge Bowl event with a new fancy building i.e. Hero Tavern.
I see Fellowship event like old wine in new bottle.

 

[CrashBoom]

well, if inno really only wants to cap the things the big players can do, why not just put a hard cap on # of hourly (or daily) actions on GSP instead? that way people can just continue to play it as they wish, except they have to wait X time before they can continue

ok let's cap at 240 fights a day

and if you want it hourly that would be 10 every hour

 

[DEADP00L]

As long as we are in the delusional proposals by refusal to accept the nerf, to please those who say they fight in GbG above all for the competition, let's limit the guilds to 40 members.
By splitting the pro guilds into two, there will be more guilds of the same quality in the 1,000 LP league in the fairly near future!

 

[Donna a Macskabolond]

As long as we are in the delusional proposals by refusal to accept the nerf, to please those who say they fight in GbG above all for the competition, let's limit the guilds to 40 members.
By splitting the pro guilds into two, there will be more guilds of the same quality in the 1,000 LP league in the fairly near future!

Do you have any advice how to split the treasury?

 

[DEADP00L]

Do you have any advice how to split the treasury?

you must have missed a word from my beginning of sentence: "delusional" !!!

Now if you want a more "acceptable" proposal, that Inno put back the SCs as before but that their cost is cumulative per day:
1st SC = 3,000 goods
2nd SC = 6,000 goods
3rd SC = 9,000 goods
4th SC = 12,000 goods
....
We'll see if the guilds continue their checkerboard.

And such unfair proposals, I can still get you a lot out of it.

 

[Thunderdome]

So, inno is going to force a choice here: dedicate oneself to GbG and reserve all army units for fighting on high attrition, or changing your city to support the maximum generation of goods possible (in order to do more negotiations). In any case: a bad development. Another one is the lack of need to finish camps with diamonds; because there will be less (immediate) fighting, the need to quickly finish building of camps is no longer needed as well. Ergo, no more need of diamonds to do that This will save me at least 500 diamonds per day probably

That's how it is going to go with this in place. Already, I had started to "prioritize" where I am going to use my fighting at my current level of gameplay. GBg won't be the place for sure. I had given my data as well as had asked a few of my guild mates to assist in gathering a big picture. I'm pretty much done.

This is an assumption, right? Would be great if you would not state it as a fact.

Oh, Inno has that habit of doing things their way that doesn't require the approval (or disapproval) of everyone else. If you have a "gut" feeling that something is going to be set in stone, listen to it as it might be "right".

Many players in general will no longer be willing to spend diamonds because they have lost confidence (I am one of them)

Same with me. This was the last nail on the coffin that won't have me click to buy ever again.

But the season will be over on 25 Jul, voting will be closed on 28 Jul. It would be better to give people more time for voting, especially considering summer vacations and so on

also, if the voting is going to be closed on 28 Jul which is Thursday, does that mean the next GBG season is going to be ummm… “modified” (66% thingy) regardless voting result?

That's the point of having a "secret" thread hidden somewhere in the forums. They will keep going forth with it, regardless of voting. Smoke and mirrors to me.

Now what do I mean by mocking? Things like "hahahaha", "boo hoo hoo" or comments like "don't go down to their level" etc.

Live a little. I enjoy a good laugh every once in a while.

well, if inno really only wants to cap the things the big players can do, why not just put a hard cap on # of hourly (or daily) actions on GSP instead? that way people can just continue to play it as they wish, except they have to wait X time before they can continue

The same reason why most games I had played that had limited energy based tasks I had put on the shelf. I don't want to wait hours so I can play again. I know I can't do thousands of fights in GBg, so if they put a hard cap on those, it won't affect me or anyone below me. It will affect those who can do thousands in a day (damn, they must not have a life, heh heh) but what is one or two thousand less for them?

Anyway, for those wishing for this to hit live, I'd say go for it as it's your funeral. We already know that Inno has this to stay. It won't solve the problem but will limit everyone else from participating at some point. Might as well rename it to "Grounds of the Uber Powerful" since those are the only ones that won't have a problem with it in place. I'd give the game six months tops to survive.

 

[DEADP00L]

Beyond all these off-topics, what indirectly pleases me in the nerve of the SC is that a single member cannot do the GbG alone.
the first G of GbG will find all its meaning.
Each guild will have to gather several members each time it wishes to take a sector.
Gone is the night player who could take 5 to 6 sectors alone with the accumulation of SCs.
I even think (and it's starting to show) that guilds with less than 5 players (or 5 active players) will no longer be able to access the Diamond league, which is also excellent news. I'm crossing my fingers that it restores the level a little more in each league after a few seasons of GbG.

 

[xivarmy]

Beyond all these off-topics, what indirectly pleases me in the nerve of the SC is that a single member cannot do the GbG alone.
the first G of GbG will find all its meaning.
Each guild will have to gather several members each time it wishes to take a sector.
Gone is the night player who could take 5 to 6 sectors alone with the accumulation of SCs.
I even think (and it's starting to show) that guilds with less than 5 players (or 5 active players) will no longer be able to access the Diamond league, which is also excellent news. I'm crossing my fingers that it restores the level a little more in each league after a few seasons of GbG.

You overestimate the strength of your average guild. 5 good members is significantly more than your average guild has (they may have a larger roster, but most of the roster is inactive or effectively so). There isn't some magical pool of guilds with 20 active members being held back by guilds with 5. I've made it to diamond as a guild with *1* active member before.

While I am hopeful for a small shift in terms of some guilds that were sandbagging either now don't see the use or just can't help themself but take "too much", it's not going to be a night and day difference - small guilds will still sometimes make it to diamond.

Changing the ranking system is the only surefire way to keep some of the guilds out that don't belong there - but the attrition thing needs fixing first. If the map is still being overwhelmed then it doesn't matter how strong the weakest are, they're going to get the shaft and then some of them will try to avoid being there - sending less capable guilds in their place.

 

[Donna a Macskabolond]

Beyond all these off-topics, what indirectly pleases me in the nerve of the SC is that a single member cannot do the GbG alone.
the first G of GbG will find all its meaning.
Each guild will have to gather several members each time it wishes to take a sector.
Gone is the night player who could take 5 to 6 sectors alone with the accumulation of SCs.
I even think (and it's starting to show) that guilds with less than 5 players (or 5 active players) will no longer be able to access the Diamond league, which is also excellent news. I'm crossing my fingers that it restores the level a little more in each league after a few seasons of GbG.

I have to argue with you on the last point - very small guilds will reach diamond as easily as they did before the cap because very-very few guilds build SC in platinum, so the cap won't really affect them.

 

[mcbluefire]

Lots of speculation - here's some facts.
I've tracked my attrition vs. fights for the past two seasons.
I'm mainly fighting with 2, 3, or 4 SCs.
My attrition for the full first season was 57.31%
My attrition so far this season is 57.11%
Both of those are right in line with what I was expecting with a cap at 66.6%
My fights in these two seasons is more than double what it was averaging in the prior 10 seasons.
Why? Now we're into speculation but I can say that it is much easier for me to find supported fights now than it was before the change.
Prior to the change most times I'd check the map there would be nothing available, or at most only tiles with no support or at most one SC.
Now I can get 3 an 4 support tiles just about every time I check.
Could it be that those that were normally getting all the free fights they wanted are now limited to 4 or 5 hundred?
Geeee, I wonder.

What is the point of supported fights that literally provide an average of just one more hit over non-SC supported fights? Doesn't it make sense that in the long run guilds are going to stop building more than 3SCs to support a sector?

I'm not interested in participating in GBG for ~180 fights a day (double my auto-fight 'max' attrition) with much larger losses of troops than I am currently experiencing at 500 fights a day. This isn't a win, it's a massive nerf at a cost of thousands of fights a season for active guildmates so a few people who weren't willing to hit 0SC support sectors can now get upwards of double their attrition. Convenience is rewarded at a fraction of what is lost for those willing to show up and help their guilds WHEN it was needed.

This is even worse than I was thinking it would be.

Appreciate you sharing the info!

 

[jovada]

I'm not interested in participating in GBG for ~180 fights a day (double my auto-fight 'max' attrition) with much larger losses of troops than I am currently experiencing at 500 fights a day. This isn't a win, it's a massive nerf at a cost of thousands of fights a season for active guildmates so a few people who weren't willing to hit 0SC support sectors can now get upwards of double their attrition

what do you mean ? you want easy 500 fights with no effort but no regular 180 fights using your capacity ??

 

[blueskydwg]

What is the point of supported fights that literally provide an average of just one more hit over non-SC supported fights? Doesn't it make sense that in the long run guilds are going to stop building more than 3SCs to support a sector?

I'm not interested in participating in GBG for ~180 fights a day (double my auto-fight 'max' attrition) with much larger losses of troops than I am currently experiencing at 500 fights a day. This isn't a win, it's a massive nerf at a cost of thousands of fights a season for active guildmates so a few people who weren't willing to hit 0SC support sectors can now get upwards of double their attrition. Convenience is rewarded at a fraction of what is lost for those willing to show up and help their guilds WHEN it was needed.

This is even worse than I was thinking it would be.

Appreciate you sharing the info!

Of course we all play the game in different ways and for different reasons.
My point in the extra fights I've gotten is the extra rewards - for this season so far that translates to:
910 fps
90 troops
750 goods
90 diamonds
Those rewards may not be much to someone in SAJM who has all they need of those items - but for me working my way through SAM every little bit helps.

And I agree - most guilds won't build more than 3 SCs - it would be a waste of goods.

Perhaps you should join a guild in Beta so you can see what is actually happening. Might make the transition in your live world(s) a little easier if/when the change is made there.

 

[King Flush]

Of course we all play the game in different ways and for different reasons.
My point in the extra fights I've gotten is the extra rewards - for this season so far that translates to:
910 fps
90 troops
750 goods
90 diamonds
Those rewards may not be much to someone in SAJM who has all they need of those items - but for me working my way through SAM every little bit helps.

And I agree - most guilds won't build more than 3 SCs - it would be a waste of goods.

Perhaps you should join a guild in Beta so you can see what is actually happening. Might make the transition in your live world(s) a little easier if/when the change is made there.

but you could get those rewards by putting some effort in and experience GBG as a means of battling with rewards as a secondary bonus rather than just wanting GBG to become another GE where you just click on for no other purpose than to get the rewards.