Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

[Owl II]

Depends on the extent to which it becomes prominent. People have been using features of certain ages to win at 150 attrition pretty much as long as 150 attrition has existed - I remember someone on live forums posting a 150+ attrition fight win in the first couple weeks. But we're talking about slow manual battles, also cherry-picked such that you need a lot of sectors to look for the next fight you can win. Not something that everyone and their dog is doing at high frequency.

Among them Rocket Troops vs 8 Ronin can win even if the rocket troops have *0* boost at 150 attrition. The only way to "fix" that is to change the units or remove the 8 heavy fight from the rotation.

I can try it now, np
In fact, VA artillery against 8 heavy is the only available option. You won't be able to do this trick with artillery against heavy Jupiter. But all this is pampering. Such an attack is built for different. To close the day in GB with ~100 attrition for example. But if I could take part in one or two races earlier , now I can only slowly and sadly pick at the coastal province, a few fights

 

[xivarmy]

I can try it now, np
In fact, VA artillery against 8 heavy is the only available option. You won't be able to do this trick with artillery against heavy Jupiter. But all this is pampering. Such an attack is built for different. To close the day in GB with ~100 attrition for example. But if I could take part in one or two races earlier , now I can only slowly and sadly pick at the coastal province, a few fights

It is not the only available option. SAM and SAJ can do more options:

- still using VF artillery vs heavy (it's completely not based on stats - but on moving before they have a chance to decluster and getting 5+ damage from min-damage-1 per target from mortar). As long as you have 3 turns before you start taking hits you should be fine using VF artillery.
- using SAM/SAJ flyers to first strike against high artillery count armies; relying on AO+Keen Eye procs and restarts to kill the relatively fewer non-artillery before they kill you - when I had first pointed out the 8 heavy win unimpressive, the poster came up with a few of these.

And of course there's the high age unattached units in a lower age (though there's other solutions for that if they decide it's a problem needing to be solved).

There's also hover tank kiting that used to be done more prominently before huge boost made it largely unnecessary. Against slow enough units you can win there with 1 damage a shot as well.

 

[Owl II]

And it took devs 2.5 years to realize that? Bs devs were OK with tons of fp for some reason. Now they are not. They don't want to tell us real reasons.

Do you think if I stop leveling my guildmates 2.0 tomorrow and join the party in the global chat, and start sniping neighbors, I won't be able to compensate for the FP from GBG? They should nerf the arc, as Ninjalin already said

 

[Owl II]

It is not the only available option. SAM and SAJ can do more options:

- still using VF artillery vs heavy (it's completely not based on stats - but on moving before they have a chance to decluster and getting 5+ damage from min-damage-1 per target from mortar). As long as you have 3 turns before you start taking hits you should be fine using VF artillery.
- using SAM/SAJ flyers to first strike against high artillery count armies; relying on AO+Keen Eye procs and restarts to kill the relatively fewer non-artillery before they kill you - when I had first pointed out the 8 heavy win unimpressive, the poster came up with a few of these.

And of course there's the high age unattached units in a lower age (though there's other solutions for that if they decide it's a problem needing to be solved).

There's also hover tank kiting that used to be done more prominently before huge boost made it largely unnecessary. Against slow enough units you can win there with 1 damage a shot as well.

Yes, but it's still for beautiful screenshots, no more. You can't seriously talk about battles, as it was at the very beginning

 

[Louise the WarriorMaiden]

Some changes are good. Others like this one is not. Our guild has already lost one of our greatest fighter, our guild being a level 100 guild. He is leaving the game. A four year player. He probably won't be the only one.

 

[xivarmy]

Yes, but it's still for beautiful screenshots, no more. You can't seriously talk about battles, as it was at the very beginning

Mostly I agree. Which is why I'm not sure they "have to" fix that aspect. Gives players some clever moments but not so much power as to distort things. Unless "everyone" starts doing it regularly, at which point it becomes more problematic. But I think the effort bar to clear it is high enough that most people will at most do it once or twice to prove to themself they can.

 

[Thunderdome]

Full disclosure, I do not do GBG on Beta, only on live.

Well, it's not on live... yet! So enjoy that while you can.

would it still be that way if we remove all votes of people who signed up in the forum after the change was introduced ?

We couldn't because everyone has that someone who plays beta to relay the news to them; so yeah, they just rally up the troops for this one.

What is the "boots"? Do you mean scripts or something?

I think they meant "boost" and probably was on a mobile device with voice dictation or even one with the ill-famed auto-correct.

It's been 2 years that selfish guilds make fun of other guilds who suffer as a spectator without being able to leave the HQ and who could not do anything not to end up in a higher league.

Kind of like that telenovela that was on global some time ago?

Let's assume that Inno puts back the % of the camps while limiting to 300 fights per day and per player for individual gains (beyond 300 fights a player could continue to fight but no points would be recorded for his classification and all the gains would be replaced by crowns), would you be happy?

You could find the pleasure of doing 1,000 fights every day and more for the good of your guild.

Hey, I can go for that! That would put everyone on somewhat even ground. 500 would be better, though. To put a limit on fighting, the botters will surely be shooting blanks with no rewards endlessly.

or they remove flying from the Abyssal Glider

The start of a comedy act...

....
Someone needs to ban You from giving them ideas )

...meets the end of one. This one had me laughing with the timing for both. But seriously, let's not give Inno ideas to further wreck the game and spoil it for others who have not reach that point yet. That's what they are doing right here and now.

If FOE made better matchups of stronger Guilds to fight each other, the problem would not exist, and the weaker Guilds could just let the map sit empty and only blame themselves.

Inno won't though. A lot of folks were asking for such but as I said earlier money talks, the other walks.

 

[PackCat]

Money (greediness) rules the world. Why spend money on wage for it labor to program it good first place if devs can wait until wave of poo in comments will become too high

It would be much more acceptable in GBG if they capped the number of VP at 500-750 per day, as they did with the recurring quests. (I never knew that was a thing until they restricted it) That should have tipped their hand who the bots were.
Messing with someone's ability to fight, seems malicious... wasting armies, goods, and diamonds.
The least they could have done was give everyone 2K diamonds in beta to experiment, like they do for the events.

 

[PackCat]

I didn`t talk about positive and negative pages

I did.. And the context was SHOW me the positive comments from an active fighter in a Guild that builds camps, spends treasury goods and diamonds, and doesn't just sit in a corner whining. In 90% of our seasons, we take majority of the map in the first wave and then wait days for Guilds to come out of their corners and use the camps WE built. So much for the farming idea.

 

[Yekk]

159/160 isn't locked however. Someone who shows up at a random time can hit it. The lock can be forced, keeping half progress and getting closer to being able to actually race whoever the slower of the two guilds "swapping" the sector is. And each swap costs attrition they didn't necessarily want to spend (again focused on the weaker of the two guilds involved who may be running out of attrition trying to feed the stronger).

Bottom line - the guilds running the map having actual costs (i.e. treasury costs don't count if they've reached "bottomless treasury" status) does have substantial meaning. Whether it changes behavior in positive/negative ways in the long run is difficult to predict. But it does also open up more meaning to changing other balancing levers if it alone doesn't do the trick.

So we are back to certain guilds, rogues such as you have admitted yourself, hurt a league more than they help. Then they complain they are not getting fights because they are being 4 hour locked out... Seems to me that is the correct move for the map... AND still possible if they continue to misbehave...

As stated by many how GBG is played now on live has most guilds that can fight and build doing just that. Maps get split up. Little guilds get area to farm. IT WORKED.

Just not for you so you bellyached

 

[PackCat]

I think the Number 1 reason for the negative comments is that INNO decided without polling the community to restrict a player's ability to fight,
YET they ignored for the last 3 years all the complaints about Bots, Macros, and Cheaters.

Had INNO addressed the Bot problem first, maybe they would not have needed a sledgehammer to disable GBG.
If someone needs more than 2000 quests a day, Maybe they are using a bot.
If one player in GVG can beat 10 opponents and win a 80 battle province in less than 15 seconds, Maybe they are using a bot.
If one player in GBG can win 150 VP in less than 1 minute, Maybe they are using a bot.
If one Guild is constantly defeating everyone else effortlessly, Maybe they are using a bot.

 

[xivarmy]

So we are back to certain guilds, rogues such as you have admitted yourself, hurt a league more than they help. Then they complain they are not getting fights because they are being 4 hour locked out... Seems to me that is the correct move for the map... AND still possible if they continue to misbehave...

As stated by many how GBG is played now on live has most guilds that can fight and build doing just that. Maps get split up. Little guilds get area to farm. IT WORKED.

Just not for you so you bellyached

I just want fun rounds. The farming cooperative is not fun. Fighting against them is not either. The impact they have has spread to other leagues than diamond so now there's no fun there either (sandbagging instead of farming). Some sort of shakeup is needed. Is this that shakeup? Maybe. Can't be worse than the current monotony.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I think the Number 1 reason for the negative comments is that INNO decided without polling the community to restrict a player's ability to fight,
YET they ignored for the last 3 years all the complaints about Bots, Macros, and Cheaters.

Had INNO addressed the Bot problem first, maybe they would not have needed a sledgehammer to disable GBG.
If someone needs more than 2000 quests a day, Maybe they are using a bot.
If one player in GVG can beat 10 opponents and win a 80 battle province in less than 15 seconds, Maybe they are using a bot.
If one player in GBG can win 150 VP in less than 1 minute, Maybe they are using a bot.
If one Guild is constantly defeating everyone else effortlessly, Maybe they are using a bot.

I'll add one to your menu: If one player consistently wins 25,000 battles every week - over a 2 year span, Maybe they are using a bot.

 

[Cat TB]

Would much rather see the duration and frequency of GBG reduced. Have it last 5 days, or a week with every other week off. Or have provinces locked for 8 hours. Currently GBG requires too much time.

 

[Volshebnitsa]

The majority of players want to farm and not fight. Farming alliances are present in all leagues. In Diamond league 2 or 3 or 4 guilds share the map. Guilds that do not participate wait for the next round in a lower league to farm there. In Platinum league you will probably see 5 or 6 or 7 guilds swapping sectors. Can they fight instead? Sure, they can. No one is blocked. Do they want to fight? They do not. Just let players do what they want.

 

[Ted the huge]

The majority of players want to farm and not fight. Farming alliances are present in all leagues. In Diamond league 2 or 3 or 4 guilds share the map. Guilds that do not participate wait for the next round in a lower league to farm there. In Platinum league you will probably see 5 or 6 or 7 guilds swapping sectors. Can they fight instead? Sure, they can. No one is blocked. Do they want to fight? They do not. Just let players do what they want.

Well put. There is definitely a difference in the way guilds do battlegrounds. The first 10 guilds probably will be affected most by the reduction in fights. The guilds ranked 10 to 40 or so would be the most negatively affected by this change because they use camps both for swaps and to obtain rank (VP). The guilds 40 and below will not care either way because they just play for VP anyway.

 

[HunZ95]

Would much rather see the duration and frequency of GBG reduced. Have it last 5 days, or a week with every other week off. Or have provinces locked for 8 hours. Currently GBG requires too much time.

no one is forcing you to play in the GBG map every single day or every 4 hour.

 

[Ted the huge]

I would like to defend my position as a new comer to this forum. I have always loved playing battlegrounds. I think I should get some input on a major change such as this.

The first few rounds most guilds used all buildings and teamed up to beat better guilds. That was very expensive but most had years worth of resources stored up. So many players quit in those first few rounds because of broken alliances primarily.

With the new world Carthage most guilds have worked together using seige camps to build resources that are lacking in a new world. These months in Carthage have been the most pleasant I have ever had in battlegrounds.

For the first time I purchased diamonds. The seige camps and the castle system in a new world are so beneficial in a new world.

I love that they introduced a new map. Especially that it shows that the developers can introduce a new system that doesn't damage the old. I would like to see this new idea implemented as a part of a rotation of rounds even though I think it is a bad idea. I would like a round that has all new buildings that have never bean tested even on beta.

I stopped playing the game to post in this thread because the way battlegrounds is now is so important to maintain in my opinion. Time is always a trade off. If I post here I don't have time to play. I just collect.

 

[-Alin-]

Spoiler: I need only one more for 150 ..

Asking again, is this the way InnoGames wants us to shred all of our units for few forge points more than the majority of players?

I am trying my limits now because I found it actually fun, but only for today, its very time consuming waiting for sectors to be taken and finding some easy combos to beat ...
Eveerything feels so slow now.

 

[Zuckerberg the Horrid]

Here are the realities:. 200 or 300 fights is great in every way. This is a decent reward with minimal effort. This is the dream of any player, including me. The problem is different. The problem is that it will be more difficult to organize these 200 fights than before. The mechanics are implemented in such a way that it is impossible to be "a little pregnant". Either yes or no. Either you control the map, or you will be thrown out in 6-8 hours maximum. If they want limit fights or limit rewards, it would be possible to achieve the same results without knocking the ground out from under the feet of the guilds. Normal guilds who have accepted this gameplay in full, and not just as an opportunity to steal a couple of FP from there. But these are the devs of Inno. This is the "heal all" button.

except that isn't quite fair is it, the way ages are set up

someone who stayed in PE / Indy can fight past 100 attrition
someone in FE that can do 50 attrition goes to AF and can't even do 30

good luck getting 100 attrition in Venus with any attack %
every age is harder and harder.