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Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

BarraG

Farmer
I don't believe this has been thought through enough... It looks like INNO needed to stir the pot to get feedback by doing so ... as someone stated traps etc need adjust then as well ...
Maybe balance by selecting random guilds base on size of guild and last performance rather than adjusting SC % attrition reduction, that way guilds fight with guilds at there same level and ability that way bigger guilds need to work harder to maintain as they are fighting to positions against others of the same power level and not to have some small guilds just to sit in the corner for the round ( might be wrong)
 

mintbunnies

Farmer
I do understand. Attack boost will become less valuable. I agree. As I said, just as passive FP/Goods production used to be king but was replaced by Attack, now Attack will be replaced by something else.

I also believe this will be a positive change for game balance as a whole, as I explained before; it will hurt top players (maybe the top 5-10%), but will help or otherwise not affect everyone else (the other 90-95%).

The rewards are still there; everybody still does GE, many people still do GvG, even though the rewards are much smaller. SoH & Elephant are still excellent buildings, and 100-200 battles per day is still enough fp to boost daily income considerably.

Guilds will be forced to consolidate; small guilds with low numbers of high-power players will no longer be able to maintain diamond league, as they will be outpaced by large guilds of less advanced players. This will encourage guilds to merge and increase teamwork within the game. Impacts of this will probably be felt even in GvG - larger guilds, larger battles, less of the ghosting nonsense that happens on many competitive GvG servers.

People may spend less, but they were definitely willing to spend diamonds before. There was no GbG when someone bought enough diamonds to get nearly 20 full Pirate Ships in a summer event a few years back. There was no GbG when my guild leader in 2017 professed they were "working overtime to pay for more Fire Pagoas in the spring event." Furthermore, Inno must know that this will reduce diamond expenditure; and the fact that they're willing to test it anyway demonstrates that they believe it is good for game balance, despite the inevitable loss of income.




As for me personally, how it will affect me has very little to do with how I view the change. But since you keep bringing it up, here's how this change will affect me:

I'm in a top guild in my world; we maintain first in GvG, we win nearly every GbG season, we only have a handful of silver GE medals and no bronze. My guild will continue to build maximum SCs regardless; this change will not affect that.

My biggest issue currently is that I there are never any fights left; I don't have the time in my life to sit and wait hours for sectors to open, to be on constantly; I only get fights in when I happen to log on and see a sector opening within 5 minutes. I, and many other players like me who cannot be on for hours on end, will not be hurt, and in fact many will benefit from these changes.

This change will hurt many of the players in my guild who do thousands of battles each season. Might the game lose players because of that? Possibly, but we're not going to dissolve, and other players will step up to join their place. We will still play the game.

The rewards of being in Diamond GbG, while not as broken as they currently are, will be large and desirable. Therefore, because GbG battles will cap at a few hundred per player, larger guilds with many players will be more desirable. Larger guilds with more people contributing to treasury & map control will then be able to provide the battles for their members, allowing for players to maximize their (capped, but still present) rewards. Players will gravitate towards these larger guilds or will fail to gain the rewards.

In my server, my guild is one of maybe five guilds that can consistently run GvG at a high level, and we're constantly at war with two of the others simultaneously. The rest of the guilds combined (beyond these 5ish) can't hope to reach the fighting power to challenge the top five. While a one-man guild can participate in GvG, they can't really hope to provide a real challenge to large guilds. Honestly, GvG is getting annoying when the daily routine is "Alright, make sure nobody landed and broke our shadow in AA... now wipe those smaller guilds that did manage to land... now take whatever we can in goods maps because 6 guilds with 10 people each are ghosting us... anything else? no, ok great gj team thanks." I'm personally hoping this change will encourage larger guilds to form which will provide more interesting wars in GvG.

===

So yeah, this change will change the game. Who'da thunk that changes would change things. It's a nerf to the current top strategy, which will understandably piss off many top players, but just because something is unpopular doesn't mean it's unbalanced. The rest of the players probably won't care, and many of them might even benefit. The game will continue, a new top strategy will be found, and people will abuse that for a while until inno nerfs it. Wash, rinse, repeat.
You seem to be using extreme examples in order to justify your point. I guess this is because the non-extreme examples would just ruin your point?

So because one person bought 20 pirate ships once then that means that all proposals by INNO must be given equal merit and the game will adjust to a new equilibrium? I could list a whole bunch of fallacies in that argument.

Also it seems that your post was just a long winded way to confirm my original point. Attack bonuses are nerfed, diamond spending will go down. So I'll thank you for that and just leave it there.
 

conqueror9

Regent
You don't seem to understand my point so I will try again.

People are currently willing to spend diamonds in order to create a powerful town. I can get to 85 attrition on my main server and 65 attrition here in beta.

What benefit does 20 attrition get me? 20 more fights per day? 33 more fights per day? Why would I bother increasing my attack bonus to be comparable in live for 33 more fights per day?

Sure a hard core guild will spend goods for rankings and prestige. But you are really missing the mark if you think that all guilds won't be affected, INNOs bottom line won't be affected, and that massive changes like this without listening to the players that spend diamonds won't affect you.

yes, my big spend in diamond ..is when GBG start, tons of diamond load to have instant-sc for next sectors
while processing in later days, i still diamond on doing instant-sc
this, in fact, reflect "source of income" to Inno in live world
with too much limiting in GBG, the usage of diamond may drop seriously
when this impact goes to live world, this just mean Inno collect lesser $$$

Inno should go to have a study of in-house calculation of "how many diamond spend on GBG is reduced" b4 bring the adjustment to live world

player spend diamond to get advantage in playing ..... Inno should always prefer player to spend.....then ..consider how much benefits that should provide to player while spending diamond....limiting player to play ( to spend ) with this adjustment is......
 
As much as I dislike the farming of GBG, I still don't like this idea. This is (supposed to be) a strategy game yet I can NEVER fight. I'm limited all over the board. I can't fight GvG because every map is locked up within the first 15 minutes. I can't fight GBG because I'm attritioned out. I can't fight GE because I get 1 try per hour with a max of 64 per week. I can't fight my neighbors because I have only about 70. I'm already bored out of my mind and now the only place to fight is taken away?
Stop the farming -> remove the rewards. Or nerf them or whatever but don't take away our fights.
Make some actual [expletive] competition! Don't limit the fights. Make GBG strategic again by taking away the rewards and the farmers. Increase the guild rewards instead of the individual ones. Whatever. But stay away from my fights
maybe build your guild up better

the top guilds who do all that map locking have put a tonne of effort
not just diamond spending, but coordination, communication features, things like planning who will wake up at 5am to be on when it opens so that we know there's enough people to win races, and so that we know there's at least one diamond rusher who doesn't mind rushing everything,
lots of planning and execution towards ensuring they have the right number of people and treasury GBs/SOHs in each age
lots of planning and execution towards ensuring they have recruited people who will complete minimums and play fairly with the non-free sectors

like the other player said, black envy is at play here - instead of wanting what others have, you want to take away what other's don't
+ yes I co-opted your message for my 1 and only reply to this thread, because everything's already been said by someone else and Inno's gonna do what Inno's gonna do.
 
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The thing I see everyone dancing around is that right now the reason the 2-3 guild swaps happen is not strictly because of the desire to farm, but because only 2 or 3 guilds are willing or able to do enough battles to actually take sectors on a regular basis and keep the sectors churning. This change will make the weaker guilds even slower in taking sectors (especially if hitting guilds with traps becomes common again), and this in turn will make the farming even worse in my opinion, not just in Diamond league, but also Platinum and probably Gold.

Once a guild gets knocked down they'll be even less likely to get back up.
 
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Don't be gullible please, you should know that the massive guilds will still dominate, albeit with more difficulty, and to the detriment of the "big hitters", but they will still dominate, and the big fighting guilds will still outperform the small, inexpirienced ones.
yup
now instead of retaking the sectors in front of your HQ every 4 hours
we'll take it once and load it with traps, since you can't counter our traps

there's no longer a way to prevent a big guild from burning everyone else's attrition so that they're the only ones on the map the whole day

the start of the game will be a race to the other team's HQ to drop traps in front of it, rather than a race to lock the whole map that then gets washed back and forth with whoever else is strong enough to participate

it will NOT give small guilds more breathing room

the map will turn one color rather than two, then get loaded with traps absolutely everywhere. By the time you take a few sectors, your sectors will reopen and they'll take them back and re-trap them.
 
I like it. It seemed to me from the start of GBG that it was intended for guilds to actually fight each other for the best ranking. Instead people found as they always do to manipulate the map and create a farming map so they get 1000s of free fights and save goods on camps by setting up co-ops with other guilds. In turn getting more goods and diamonds then they are spending. This game used to actually be hard to build a city but it was something to be proud of. Now people get so much free stuff its crazy. Now guilds will do it for the compititon and not just the tons of rewards as it was intended. Great change
 

GateKeeper

Baronet
About time a change was made. Should have never had "free attrition" to begin with. Like taking sugar away from a fat kid...they will cry...they will moan... they will have to be sent to Snowflake Mountain, but it needed to be done. Since yall in the changing mood, reduce the amount to win a sector too.... reduce by 10...20...points to win a sector. It will lessen the no attrition blow a tad, and lessen the amount fights as well. win win. Making the game a tad respectable again, instead of a brainless clicking slot machine of rewards.
 

Thunderdome

Emperor
Seems like when players are benefiting from something, a developer will always try to skimp it; only when players are not benefiting from something they kept pushing it to them.

The most problem I had read folks were having was the matching of guilds in certain maps (yes, I am one for grouping the big, bad, guilds into a single map together so they can feel what it is like having to struggle to get some points going while giving the other guilds a chance for some "real" competition amongst themselves). However, seems like they went somewhere else. Again, I am thinking they just threw a dart to the "let's see how are we going to p*ss off the players" board full of half-baked ideas; and whatever it hits on, they will go for that; they are probably sitting laughing their keisters off after what they had done (do they even test some of the junk before they send it off to the players in beta?), and in the process, broke other things like the quest tracker.

Perhaps they will put that 300 diamond 5 fixed attrition (daily) option in (as proposed by another) after the madness calms down.
 

Owl II

Emperor
Yes, but they will likely not be able to lock up the whole map 24/7 in checkerboard anymore and that will allow the smaller guilds to break in - they will not get too far, but at least they have the chance to see some action
Don't count on it. You just cannot imagine the potential and level of organization of strong guilds. Last season there was a moment when we missed a key province because of the 159/160 flags with which the rival surrounded us. And we conducted 256 battles (with fortresses) in two or three provinces in a row without any SC at all. We returned, captured the map and the rival was putting fortresses in every province where we had only 2 or 3 SC. We had enough strength to play this day to the end in this mode, and still win battles for speed!. It was a strong opponent. What can those who do not want to build a strong team and treasury count on? They will stay where they were. They will just be content with the fact that Inno have taken the farm away from the strong.
 

CrashBoom

Legend
People are currently willing to spend diamonds in order to create a powerful town. I can get to 85 attrition on my main server and 65 attrition here in beta.

What benefit does 20 attrition get me? 20 more fights per day? 33 more fights per day? Why would I bother increasing my attack bonus to be comparable in live for 33 more fights per day?
66,6% less attrition makes 60 fights for 20 attrition ;)
 

Owl II

Emperor
There is only one question for me here: if I trained young players before, promising them high-quality farming and rapid development in our guild, then what should I offer them now? If I insisted on leveling the guild GB before, telling the players that this is more useful than leveling Zeus and Castel, because the SC removes attrition, then what should I tell them now?
 

Amdira

Baronet
If you want to reduce power farming, why don't you just cap daily fights to let's say 1000 as it was suggested?
Capping attrition is punishing not the big farmers, but the average players in lower eras building up their city. For those the chance for some FPs without or with low attrition has made GbG attractive. Now those will be the ones left behind, because they just can't do more than 100 or 200 fights with their attrition possibilities and it will be more difficult for GLs to motivate "average" players for GbG.
 

Odessa II

Farmer
I don’t think the balancing issue is due to siege camps and attrition, big guilds will still beat smaller guilds even if they don’t get free attrition.

I think the balancing problem is more due to the current league placement. The current GBG placement ranking system allows more guilds to move up/ stay in Diamond 1000 League and not having enough guilds dropping down League. In a Diamond 1000LP group, top 4 guilds will always stay in the 1000LP. Consequently, there will only be more guilds that advance to 1000LP that can’t fight against the top guilds. Balancing would be changing the League Placement reward and have more guilds dropping down so only the top guilds get to stay in the 1000LP.
 

mintbunnies

Farmer
66,6% less attrition makes 60 fights for 20 attrition ;)
You missed my point. I said guilds won't build full camps. People are debating how 66% attrition will kill the game but are not even factoring that it's not worth building 4 camps. As it's been said above, it looks like traps and forts will be used instead.

Still, 500 more attack bonus for 60 more fights per day is basically worthless in terms of rewards. If there is no noticable difference that 500 more attack gives me, why should I try bother raising my town?
 

CrashBoom

Legend
why should people raising their attack when currently 0 attrition already allows them free fights :rolleyes:

just checked the stats (from FoeHelper)
the record on live in my guild in previous GBG seasons: a player made 18.000 fights in one season

if we take 12 days (including the monday at the end) that are 1500 per day average o_O

If you want to reduce power farming, why don't you just cap daily fights to let's say 1000 as it was suggested?
let's say 300 :p
 

Amdira

Baronet
Bringing up my uncommon suggestion from the other thread again, which imho would lead to more balance

1. Make GbG more difficult/unattractive for greedy farmers
- decrease rewards for fights/day
more than 750 fights: 50% less
more than 1000 fights 75% less
- increase price for quick release of SCs/sector
1st SC 25 Diamonds
2nd SC 50 Diamonds
3rd SC 75 Diamonds
4th SC 100 Diamonds
2. Make GbG more attractive for small and lazy players
- erase rewards SoH and Elephant fragments for non active players in GbG (minimum activity 10 fights or 5 negs/day is possible for everyone)
edit: maybe raising according to league like: Bronce 2 fights or 1 neg, Silver 4/2, Gold 6/3, Platinum 8/4, Diamond 10/5
- adjust LP to average guild activity like in GE (except players in BA and in IA who haven't released military tactics)
- decrease or erase attrition from home sector to make it easier for small/weak players

Of course this would put also GLs into responsibility for the behaviour of their players, but whoever is interested in a fair and balanced gameplay, shouldn't mind :)

Fire free :D pls stay as polite as possible :)
 
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