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Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

mcbluefire

mcbluefire

Baronet
Iggy the Troll said:
Something had to be done about the endless loot drops of zero attrition fights. No more free fights seems the best option. I also think that this could result in a more competitive than cooperative gbg. By decreasing the value of siege camps, the value of traps and forts go up.
Click to expand...
Correction on two points:
1) No nothing needs to be done about lots of loot drops from the devs. You could, however, get in a guild where you can enjoy the same.
2) There is no such thing as ENDLESS loot drops nor ENDLESS attrition fights. There is a maximum number of fights available per season and players were splitting those fights up. The limit was by how many times they could flip the sectors in a season. I've never been in a guild where every player could get zero attrition fights and never have to share attrition on any other sectors.

There might be some competition, but I'm betting there will be more delicate coordinated efforts between guilds. If traps and forts are used then there is no point in playing at all (see my post above).
 
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Gattaca

Farmer
the real problem is that Inno always wants to make more money. The screw keeps turning and the players get less and less return on their investments. Venus has become more difficult than Jupiter, Astro and Mars. Now it's BGB's turn. The balance doesn't just affect GG. The problem is that the screw cannot be turned endlessly.
 
blueskydwg

blueskydwg

Steward
The comments from my guildmates (and I love you all) remind me of the parable of the blind men and the elephant.
Our perception of the change is largely driven by our prior experience.
So I will go with a few facts from this season for me
1. My number of fights this season was more than twice that of my average for the past 10 seasons. (2.33 times to be exact)
2. My average attrition to fights completed percent was 57.3%

I wish I had my attrition to fights percent from prior seasons to compare - but my expectation is that it would be much lower.
Why? Because in order to get in fights I was usually too late to the game - the whales would already have taken advantage of the reduced attrition fights and I would be left with what ever I could find around the edges.

This season, more often than not, I was able to take advantage of SC supported tiles (see my attrition percent above) just about any time I checked the map.
I didn't spend any diamonds on negotiations because I only did a few mainly to take advantage of my Space Carrier, and I didn't lose more troops that I gained with my Arc and from battlegrounds itself.

So, as a mid level player in Beta in a large very active guild this change is a big positive for me.

In my main world, where I am a very active player in a small guild (diamond and sometime diamond lite) I expect two things:
1. My personal number of fights per season will fall since I won't have as many low or zero attrition fights
2. My guilds ability to stay in diamond will be less dependent upon our negotiation skills with the large guilds (and we are usually successful in that regards) and more so on their inability to completely dominate the map.

Bring the change to live servers - we're ready.
 
Iggy the Troll

Iggy the Troll

Steward
looks like fully a third want this change, which is pretty high for a change of this nature, and if you take out the first 15-16 pages of comments and any votes that were cast prior to the season even starting, I bet it would be higher. I think this is headed for the live servers.
 
mcbluefire

mcbluefire

Baronet
I don't know if this part of Inno's announcement has been given much review,
"Stacking Siege Camps and Watchtowers, therefore, became too powerful and caused significant balancing issues between different guilds and players."

I was focusing on the words prior to this which purportedly answered "why" the change was being considered. First, stacking did not BECOME too powerful, it was designed to have this kind of power, otherwise the devs would not have permitted sectors to have 5 or more SC slots around them. One could argue that in a highly contested season it would be unlikely to get enough slots around a sector to obtain free attrition, but even with just three guilds contesting the map it's super simple to get multiple sets of 4+ SCs to hit adjacent sectors, so I doubt it was overlooked originally.
What in the world does "significant balancing issues between different guilds and players" mean? I didn't realize the choices we made in the game should have no affect on our balance against other players. Were guilds intended to be balanced? How? If that was the case one guild couldn't dominate in GvG (as is true in most worlds). Noone seems concerned about that. Players should have the same chance to progress regardless of how much time they are willing to invest in the game? That statement literally makes no sense without context of what balance is intended to be. May as well just say, "Cause some think things are unfair."

"In addition, it was something often remarked upon by our communities and players, who participated in Guild Battlegrounds. We even had this same suggestion polled on different occasions, with players voting overwhelmingly for a change to the Watchtower and Siege camp ability formula."
I know this gem has been mentioned a couple times, but I wanted to put my feedback in on it. Players may have voted overwhelmingly for some changes in GbG, however I dare you to present a poll where multiple options were presented and the top choice in those polls was to change SCs. I double dare you to show one where the word Watchtower was even mentioned. I know a thread was shared as something to back this up, but that didn't have a poll anything like what was stated. Calling complete BS on this part of the announcement.
 
mcbluefire

mcbluefire

Baronet
Iggy the Troll said:
To open up participation to more and more guildmates.
Click to expand...
How is nerfing every clicker's ability going to open up more hits for folks? Yeah, @blueskydwg reported that this season the top hitters in his guild attritioned out and he was able to find hits, but on live with several active guilds on a map what makes anyone think the sectors will still be sitting there waiting for leisure hits? I've heard from players that didn't enjoy the competition for free hits as they wanted to get more in during a quick flip season, but what do you do when 40 people are on hitting a 160 hit sector? At best you're likely to get 4 hits. 8 hits with 20 people. Meanwhile the 1SC sector sits on the edge of the map waiting for leisure players to hit it, but few do and it sits for hours and while watching the map for several seasons like that I was still getting the excuse of "whenever I logged in there was nothing to hit." Nonsense. They must have logged in and checked GbG the 3 times in the entire season where everything was actually flipped at the same time.

In my normal guild on live with 60 players 10 of them don't even bother to get hits in at all as they don't care about GbG. Those folks will find themselves being pressured with "requirements" to get hits in and that's not going to make them happy.
 
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Owl II

Owl II

Emperor
blueskydwg said:
The comments from my guildmates (and I love you all) remind me of the parable of the blind men and the elephant.
Our perception of the change is largely driven by our prior experience.
So I will go with a few facts from this season for me
1. My number of fights this season was more than twice that of my average for the past 10 seasons. (2.33 times to be exact)
2. My average attrition to fights completed percent was 57.3%

I wish I had my attrition to fights percent from prior seasons to compare - but my expectation is that it would be much lower.
Why? Because in order to get in fights I was usually too late to the game - the whales would already have taken advantage of the reduced attrition fights and I would be left with what ever I could find around the edges.

This season, more often than not, I was able to take advantage of SC supported tiles (see my attrition percent above) just about any time I checked the map.
I didn't spend any diamonds on negotiations because I only did a few mainly to take advantage of my Space Carrier, and I didn't lose more troops that I gained with my Arc and from battlegrounds itself.

So, as a mid level player in Beta in a large very active guild this change is a big positive for me.

In my main world, where I am a very active player in a small guild (diamond and sometime diamond lite) I expect two things:
1. My personal number of fights per season will fall since I won't have as many low or zero attrition fights
2. My guilds ability to stay in diamond will be less dependent upon our negotiation skills with the large guilds (and we are usually successful in that regards) and more so on their inability to completely dominate the map.

Bring the change to live servers - we're ready.
Click to expand...
I adore you as well. The number of my fights has increased very much compared to the last 5 or 6 seasons, just like yours. To be honest, I've been out of the guild all this time :) And you know what? I was able to do so many fights because the camps were nerfed. If it wasn't for that, I would have come back much later.

It's stupid to argue. Just wait and see. After all, it's just a game. Any dramas will end as soon as you turn off the screen of your device
 
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-Alin-

-Alin-

Emperor
HunZ95 said:
Where did this happen? On Facebook?
Click to expand...
Yes, Facebook, their group with 100k members, used to post few days with the results in GbG, today posted the total, with blured names and guilds, posted the numbers only, and the post was taken down :))
 

slamm

Farmer
there is a lot of strategy involved in managing guild resources so we can provide all that in-game support, including cooperation in trading for the goods the guild needs for scs etc.
instead of striving for greatness, we are being asked to settle for mediocrity; the FOE version of the old grade school trope: give those who can't fight extra "chancies" by penalizing those who can fight.
I still say make a level higher than diamond and let the mega guilds battle it out for the top jewel. dont change the game, make a new top tier.
 
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