Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

[Owl II]

Problem of most big guilds is, that they didn't even try to motivate the casual players for GbG, because the big farmers were afraid of losing fights. As said before - good luck with motivating them now to burn their units for less than before

That's right. In every guild where they think a little about the organization, there are those who are ready to hit around the clock. And who enter the game once or twice a day. One group of players is active today, they will be replaced by others in a month . For the same reason that any football team (any sports team) has a bench. If you recruit 80 fighters with online 24/7 now, they will farm you if there are no targets on GBG. We have such examples. But if you remove them all right now and leave only your humble guys who want to come home from work and farm a little, 200 fights, no more, then who will support the map for them? I'm afraid they'll find only the coast and the sea at their disposal by the time they get ready to farm.

This is a stable system now. Break it - and chaos will begin. Strong guilds will adapt, one way or another. But as long as the locks fall every 4 hours, your humble guys will be doomed to look at the locks after work. Gray or multicolored. Unless... Unless they learn to hit the alarm clock. Perhaps the developers are trying to ensure that the diamond league will play the same way as the silver one. Each province is captured for half a day and you can fall asleep twice or three times while watching two guilds fight for one sector. But then they will have to think very carefully about how to attract those who are not a fan of turtle racing. It will be a completely different game.

 

[Donna a Macskabolond]

That's right. In every guild where they think a little about the organization, there are those who are ready to hit around the clock. And who enter the game once or twice a day. One group of players is active today, they will be replaced by others in a month . For the same reason that any football team (any sports team) has a bench. If you recruit 80 fighters with online 24/7 now, they will farm you if there are no targets on GBG. We have such examples. But if you remove them all right now and leave only your humble guys who want to come home from work and farm a little, 200 fights, no more, then who will support the map for them? I'm afraid they'll find only the coast and the sea at their disposal by the time they get ready to farm.

This is a stable system now. Break it - and chaos will begin. Strong guilds will adapt, one way or another. But as long as the locks fall every 4 hours, your humble guys will be doomed to look at the locks after work. Gray or multicolored. Unless... Unless they learn to hit the alarm clock. Perhaps the developers are trying to ensure that the diamond league will play the same way as the silver one. Each province is captured for half a day and you can fall asleep twice or three times while watching two guilds fight for one sector. But then they will have to think very carefully about how to attract those who are not a fan of turtle racing. It will be a completely different game.

I agree with your every word!!

 

[Hell gate]

Always great to read how words are put into my mouth. Thanks.
But this is not what I was saying. I never said, that negative feedback does not matter. I just wanted to point out, that there will always be negative feedback, especially on "controversial" changes like this one. We already had this discussion in the Guild Perks and "Regarding recent feedback" posts.

The biggest differences between Guild Perks and this change are:

1. The Guild perks were simply useless, but if you don't use nothing happens.
2. The SC cap demotivates the active GBG players, make the big guilds even stronger, screw up the medium sized but active guilds and gives nothing to the small ones.

That would be the best if the developrs and game designers play this this game actively (not just log in and collect, but actively participate in an active GBG/GVG guild). If it's too much maybe they should actively listen to the players who know this game inside and out. That's clear for all of us Inno doesn't even know its own game....

There were lot's of discussion about the GBG's problems, and probably most of agree the biggest one is the league system. Only diamond league is active, all the others mostly inactive. In the diamond league there are way too much guilds, too big the difference between the strongest and weakest.
Personally I don't agree with this hype about the big ones crushing the smalls, because in lots of cases the big guilds depend on the small guilds' activity and very willing to cooperate instead of beaching them. Of course that's an other situation when 2-3 stronger guilds are in the group. In this case the small and mostly inactive guilds usually sit on the beach, but this means 10 days and not a forever thing. In the next season they will dominate again - even with their minimum activity - in platinum league or lower diamond and that's all. Never forget, one guild is unable to keep on base any other guild, to beach somebody requires minimum two stronger guilds. War and farming all the same in this case - if the two strong guilds in war they will beach the others just as the same as farming.

If you want less farming and more war give a reason to the guild to fight for the positions. With the 1000 LP cap there is no reason to fight instead of farming especially when the fight is a lot more time and resource consuming for the guilds than farming. Just one example - in case of farming the GBG leaders and players have to be in game in ever 4 hours for half an hour but in case of fighting this is a 247/7 job. Not to mention the burnt goods and diamonds for rushing SCs. The easiest way to solve this to remove the 1000 LP cap and let the LP modify the prestige points. Within a couple of seasons the ranking will show the real order of the guilds. Group the guilds together based on the LP order, and they will fight. And will burn out even faster than with farming, not to mention the lots of stress what the fighting seasons cause for the players. And most of us want to play and not be stressed even more then in RL.

 

[HunZ95]

That's right. In every guild where they think a little about the organization, there are those who are ready to hit around the clock. And who enter the game once or twice a day. One group of players is active today, they will be replaced by others in a month . For the same reason that any football team (any sports team) has a bench. If you recruit 80 fighters with online 24/7 now, they will farm you if there are no targets on GBG. We have such examples. But if you remove them all right now and leave only your humble guys who want to come home from work and farm a little, 200 fights, no more, then who will support the map for them? I'm afraid they'll find only the coast and the sea at their disposal by the time they get ready to farm.

This is a stable system now. Break it - and chaos will begin. Strong guilds will adapt, one way or another. But as long as the locks fall every 4 hours, your humble guys will be doomed to look at the locks after work. Gray or multicolored. Unless... Unless they learn to hit the alarm clock. Perhaps the developers are trying to ensure that the diamond league will play the same way as the silver one. Each province is captured for half a day and you can fall asleep twice or three times while watching two guilds fight for one sector. But then they will have to think very carefully about how to attract those who are not a fan of turtle racing. It will be a completely different game.

I've already let it go, they don't even understand the fundamental problem with this change, because they are not involved in the current situation, as outsiders they only see that you click all day long and accumulate rewards.
However, at least 90% of the players in the top guild must have started in a small guild and experienced both extremes, and they know that with the right attitude, a little more effort, and organization, anything is possible. But it's easier to expect developers to ruin other people's work and reduce their performance than to change and improve.

 

[Gooly-Goomba]

I maxed out my attrition yesterday on the beta, result yesterday: 5 negotiations, 183 fights, attrition 92,
today: 10 negotiation=8 ZM at 1 camp, 116 fights at 6 camps, now ZM 53. Means for me (should it come like that on the live) harvest once a day, work 1-2 sectors and for the rest of the day that turn off game.Races for sectors will then probably be rare. In the long run it will mean that I will eventually give up the game completely because it just gets boring and the appeal is lost

 

[CrazyKokonut]

Hello!
If there is seriously need to rebalanse GbG with more chances for all parties -- fix "starting" mistake of it.
This mistake is "who own center of map -- that win". This mean unbalansed slots on map -- 0 at starting position (and small Guild must leave all their attrition on first sector) and more slots to center. Turn it "over"!
1. Two "undestructable" SC at base of each party (where Guild Herb now)
2. 1-3 slots at line 4-5
3. 1 slot at line 1 (line 2 on Waterfall map)
4. 0 slots at X1X.
But leave cost of provinces same as now -- it will motivate Guils to take center of map.
It will give new strategies for GbG, and make much more hard to "freeze" all but one (or two) at their start.

 

[Donna a Macskabolond]

Hello!
If there is seriously need to rebalanse GbG with more chances for all parties -- fix "startind" mistake of it.
This mistake is "who own center of map -- that win". This mean unbalansed slots on map -- 0 at starting position (and small Guild must leave all their attrition on first sector) and more slots to center. Turn it "over"!
1. Two "undestructable" SC at base of each party (where Guild Herb now)
2. 1-3 slots at line 4-5
3. 1 slot at line 1 (line 2 on Waterfall map)
4. 0 slots at X1X.
But leave cost of provinces same as now -- it will motivate Guils to take center of map.
It will give new strategies for GbG, and make much more hard to "freeze" all but one (or two) at their start.

And it will make easier to put on the checkboard Go ahead!

 

[Sl8yer]

Assuming GBG was brought out with the idea that there was a certain balance in the province buildings available it s rather strange only 2 buildings are re-balanced. Not just that, but that they are re-balanced so they will be working in a different way than the other buildings. If you change the formula for the Watchtower and Siege Camp's, you need to do it for the other buildings as well. If multiple SC's do not give you 100% neither should 3 traps.

 

[CrashBoom]

Assuming GBG was brought out with the idea that there was a certain balance in the province buildings available it s rather strange only 2 buildings are re-balanced. Not just that, but that they are re-balanced so they will be working in a different way than the other buildings. If you change the formula for the Watchtower and Siege Camp's, you need to do it for the other buildings as well. If multiple SC's do not give you 100% neither should 3 traps.

traps didn't work in the past
so they need to be made stronger

because SC already worked different than the traps
SC always did the job (when triggered) but traps only when SC didn't do it's job

so traps really needs to be rebalanced too
SC and traps both doing its job should result in neutralizing each other. not SC makes trap useless

in other words
traps not multiply attrition with 2. but add 1 more attrition
and SC on the other hand don't multiply with 0 but subtract 1

so SC + trap both active = 1 attrition not the current 0

and AFTER that the 100% from 3 traps should also be adjusted
because now 3 traps actually don't give 100%.
when you have 4 SC giving 66% then 3 traps now only give in 34% more attrition

 

[Hell gate]

As Juber already said - the poll is biased as long as you do not prepare a poll (via the game for example), in which every player (or at least a random selection of players) is obligated to participate.

It is just overwhelmingly likely that players that do like the change will not come to the forums (because they have no reason to complain) and therefor will not participate in the poll.

I would like to ask what do you think who will win with this change? What problem this will solve?
The fighter guilds will spread the attrition so they remain strong enough. The medium guildswill be in a very bad situation because there isn't enough active players to spread the attrition. What will profit the small ones? Do you think you will have some hours to capture a sector? I bet the big and medium guilds will prevent this in every 4 hour or they will trap them if they want to save the center of the map.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I would like to ask what do you think who will win with this change? What problem this will solve?
The fighter guilds will spread the attrition so they remain strong enough. The medium guildswill be in a very bad situation because there isn't enough active players to spread the attrition. What will profit the small ones? Do you think you will have some hours to capture a sector? I bet the big and medium guilds will prevent this in every 4 hour or they will trap them if they want to save the center of the map.

And how is this a bad thing? This argument is pervasive throughout the Forums. My question is simple. Did these big, fighter builds somehow hatch out of the egg as big, fighter guilds? Of course not. All guilds start out small, or at best medium (when smaller guilds merge). There were small/medium/large builds before GBG and there will still be small/medium/large after any changes that INNO decides to make. There's nothing, except perhaps apathy, preventing guilds from developing. Will it be more difficult now, maybe. Will it be more difficult than before GBG, I think not.

 

[DEADP00L]

How can we say in the same paragraph that this change will not help small and medium guilds AND announce that you will set traps to prevent them from going to the center?
The revulsion you show is just frustration over your endless fights disappearing!
All I see is that the number of active members in GbG within a guild will make the difference instead of the 2 or 3 big bills that were clicking all day.

 

[indian20]

In general I would love to see changes to GBG, but this is way too strict and in no way sophisticated, so I voted NO

Why not discuss a more exponential approach, where a 100% cannot be reached but maybe 95%. Why not discuss making it harder that two guilds can create a chessboard (removing flags after x minutes, the more sectors you have, the more costly it will be etc.). There are so many ways to create a more interesting approach to GBG then just cutting it of.

Do a refactor of GBG, listen to the community (and this time for real) and retract this nonsens.

 

[CrazyBoy08]

I think it is a bad change and the rules are too complex, I think the rules that @indian20 suggests would be better, it also benefits to the guild with lots of members that are also the best in the servor and it will be more inequitable

 

[Hell gate]

How can we say in the same paragraph that this change will not help small and medium guilds AND announce that you will set traps to prevent them from going to the center?
The revulsion you show is just frustration over your endless fights disappearing!
All I see is that the number of active members in GbG within a guild will make the difference instead of the 2 or 3 big bills that were clicking all day.

Let's turn it around: the small guilds can come to the center - you claim they will be able to do it with this change. Which player will be able to do 10k fights from the small guilds? Which one has the necessary goods in the treasury and able to build? There is a lot of effort at those guild who can build from season to season. Swapping (or fighting) on the full map requires about 1,5-1,8 million treasury goods. Which small guild is able to produce this quantity in 14 days? What do the small guilds do on the live servers now? They don't build SC, they build traps and decoys because they try to defend the hard-earned sectors. If this change will go live the big guilds will do the same if they want to win. I told you before, Inno needs to change the league system and group similar guilds in strength. The worst situation for all parties when a big guild is grouped together with lots of small ones and vice verse.

 

[Owl II]

All I see is that the number of active members in GbG within a guild will make the difference instead of the 2 or 3 big bills that were clicking all day.

Oh, yes! strong guilds will need now not 2-3 big bills have been clicking all day, but at least 60 big bills. which click all day. Because provinces open every 4 hours. And if you are in a group with an unfriendly strong guild, it will not kindly wait for you to eat, sleep or finish your work. Kicks you off the map and that's it. And strong guilds will find their missing big bills. Guess where they'll get these bills? Riiiiight. They won't print them themselves. It's long, tedious and costly. And if the guilds do not find the necessary bills, then the bills themselves will find guilds. Because they have the nature of winners

 

[Owl II]

We are waiting for another shuffle of players. I don't think the average guilds will win in the end. And new players don't come out of the sleeve. They need to be attracted and grown. What will you interest them in now? PVP arena?

 

[jovada]

I have good news for you: players of top guilds who login to the game once a day after work/school/dinner will be forced to login to the game when guild need to quickly take a province. And if not, they'll have to change guilds, most likely. Because the locks still fall every 4 hours. But now those who prevented your loaded RL people hit it provinces earlier can't take this province: they are limited by attrition

Waow !!!!! Force players with a dayjob/school to login on command whenever you feel it's needed or they will be cicked????
And for what ? If you can't secure the whole map within 4h due to attrition , the other guild also can't , it will only take you a couple of hours later.

i wonder if it's fun being ruled by a dictator

I remember some one say, in GBG u get more diamond than u spent. I just do a checking

THAT IS A LIE

I have spend 450 diamond when GBG start
and

I only have 75 diamond back in GBG

Playing game is a combination of effort /reward / fun
u pay effort, u expect reasonable reward and fun

You only had 75 diamond back, You don't mention on how many fights.
If you payed 9 camps you must have done at least 500 fights or more if the camps are still there after swap
Or you are the most unlucky fighter or you misplaced all your camps, or you payed them for other guildmates haha

 

[Owl II]

Waow !!!!! Force players with a dayjob/school to login on command whenever you feel it's needed or they will be cicked????
And for what ? If you can't secure the whole map within 4h due to attrition , the other guild also can't , it will only take you a couple of hours later.

i wonder if it's fun being ruled by a dictator

Have you been told that you need a silver league? Really strong guilds will find a way to do the task well. Complete it to the end. They are strong for this reason: they always find. And there is no need to turn everything upside down. No dictator is to blame for the fact that provinces open on a timer, and not when you end your dinner

 

[DEADP00L]

you claim they will be able to do it with this change.

I never said that !
Another example that your vision of the game is totally distorted by your feelings.
Reread my speeches you will see better what I say.

There is a lot of effort at those guild who can build from season to season. Swapping (or fighting) on the full map requires about 1,5-1,8 million treasury goods.

You seem to believe that "small guilds" play badly because they don't play it like you do.
They play according to their means with other objectives but never to the detriment of others.
You have to be one of those who thinks there is only one way to play and punish or block those who don't think like you.
You are only demonstrating to me that YOUR way of defining teamwork is only by the dictatorship of a single thought.

The changes made by Inno will "penalize" everyone, but those who are most targeted are those who made thousands of daily fights. So, in my view, it's a fair return to normal.