Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

[PackCat]

it is difficult to build a balance when inno also builds everything around offensive values.
when was the last time an event building was given that wasn't about the percentage?

When was the last time anyone built any event building that wasn't above the percentage?
For the last 2+ years, we have shaped our cities to match the needs of battles since this is what FOE wanted.
Now that many of us have mastered it, they want to move the goalposts and remove any goals we set to accommodate the rules INNO already set in place?

With that said, if INNO now all of a sudden feels like there is a flaw in the programming that allows EXPERT fighter guilds to gain an advantage, then set the maximum number of fights per day, (450-750) but don't go FUBARing everything else to castrate fighters and leverage part-time players.

 

[Ponzi]

I personnaly hope this update will go live despite the vote
Endless FPs and points farming has to end. GB feature is pointless if only used for farming. Others changes have to be done for sure, but this one would definitely be a good one.
People doing 2000+ fights a day should also get a life, this would force them to do so

 

[Thunderdome]

can't Inno just do a forced ingame vote

everybody must vote after login to be able to play (that would be really representative)

- yes
- no
- I don't want to do this stupid vote. just let me play (that would be the current 3rd option: can't decide)

If Inno puts forth an announcement in game (via messaging), players would not have to do the leg work in trying to draw in crowds that otherwise look like a "manipulative" mob. It goes both ways as the same can be said for a person to bring forth those who would vote "yes" as it does for a "no" vote.

Obviously, Inno had dropped the ball on this one.

 

[Thunderdome]

People doing 2000+ fights a day should also get a life, this would force them to do so

And... out of curiosity, mate, where do you stand as to the number of fights in GBg? For if you're are below that amount you had stated, it's going to affect you big time since you won't get rewards to grow, and your attrition would be used up just like the big guys/gals. For this nerf, it is like throwing a brick at a moving tank. It won't affect it very much; it'll probably ding the paint job. For the rest of us, that same brick will cause damage if we're in a Humvee, truck, or walking.

 

[Ponzi]

And... out of curiosity, mate, where do you stand as to the number of fights in GBg? For if you're are below that amount you had stated, it's going to affect you big time since you won't get rewards to grow, and your attrition would be used up just like the big guys/gals. For this nerf, it is like throwing a brick at a moving tank. It won't affect it very much; it'll probably ding the paint job. For the rest of us, that same brick will cause damage if we're in a Humvee, truck, or walking.

I do an average of 4-5k battles per GBg with 100-120 attrition a day, so it wouldnt change a lot of things for me I guess. Maybe 66.6% attrition reduction is a bit low, but I like the general idea.
And Im not really interested in rewards, except diamonds, as my military GBs are quite high, growing them higher doesn't change a lot anymore.

 

[Beta King]

The way i see it from INNO's perspective the choice they make will have 1 of 2 outcomes and will need to decide which one is acceptable for their vision and bottom line going forward. The first is they scrap the nerf and everything stays as it is(all players continue playing and buying diamonds as usual)since none of the people that are "yes" for this change plans on quitting or would deem their city useless after the nerf since the change will not affect them either way. Option 2 is to make the change permanent and all the people that deem their city built up until now to be for nothing will move to just daily collecting and will eventually stop logging in since there will not be much to do and this i would think will cost players and cost revenue as well. Does not seem like a hard choice to make and letting people that will not be effected either way to sway the opinion makes no sense to me anyway. (this will be my last post on this subject so don't expect a reply as i have stated my case as best i can) #mic-drop

 

[Thunderdome]

I do an average of 4-5k battles per GBg with 100-120 attrition a day, so it wouldnt change a lot of things for me I guess.

Yeah, you're the tank I was referring to in this scenario. That brick won't hurt you as much as it would hurt me. However, I am still trying to push myself further on up, even with this change, but I really feel for the small players, though, on what they're going through when they try to participate in GBg.

 

[PackCat]

Yeah, you're the tank I was referring to in this scenario. That brick won't hurt you as much as it would hurt me. However, I am still trying to push myself further on up, even with this change, but I really feel for the small players, though, on what they're going through when they try to participate in GBg.

The small players are not as likely to have the resources to constantly build SC, so the change will probably be less noticeable to them.
Back to the original complaint: This handicaps only good Guilds/Fighters. It does not magically improve others.
If there is balance, then it must be win-win... This change is lose-lose.
You cannot punish one side and make no negligible difference to the other.

 

[Owl II]

The way i see it from INNO's perspective the choice they make will have 1 of 2 outcomes and will need to decide which one is acceptable for their vision and bottom line going forward. The first is they scrap the nerf and everything stays as it is(all players continue playing and buying diamonds as usual)since none of the people that are "yes" for this change plans on quitting or would deem their city useless after the nerf since the change will not affect them either way. Option 2 is to make the change permanent and all the people that deem their city built up until now to be for nothing will move to just daily collecting and will eventually stop logging in since there will not be much to do and this i would think will cost players and cost revenue as well. Does not seem like a hard choice to make and letting people that will not be effected either way to sway the opinion makes no sense to me anyway. (this will be my last post on this subject so don't expect a reply as i have stated my case as best i can) #mic-drop

Let's be honest. GBG in full is still excessive gameplay for many (except for those who want to enter the game once a day and hit as much as they want). The problem of matchmacing has not gone away, it's just that the players have adapted to it in two years. The guild ranking is completely destroyed and does not reflect anything currenrly. Nothing at all. All these things need to be adjusted.

But what these designers have done does not solve any of the problems. Not one. It just knocks the ground out from under the feet of average active guilds and deprives them of an incentive to grow.

It also killed the dynamics. Delays in the purchase of coins. Delays in buying attempts in GE. Delays when you spend event currency (all those wild jumps that can't be cancel). Delays in canceling the RQ. Put here now the delays in the capture of provinces GBG. Inno is moving confidently towards creating a game for inhibited

 

[DEADP00L]

This handicaps only good Guilds/Fighters.

No, sorry, it only penalizes some players from the bigger guilds.
Otherwise we would have had at least 20 x 80 = 1,600 NO in the previous vote.

 

[Ponzi]

Yeah, you're the tank I was referring to in this scenario. That brick won't hurt you as much as it would hurt me. However, I am still trying to push myself further on up, even with this change, but I really feel for the small players, though, on what they're going through when they try to participate in GBg.

In my opinion, it would be a normal thing that stronger players can afford more fightings. If not, why would the weakers want to get stronger ?


In a general view, I feel that most of you seem to over evaluate the importance of big players to Innogames
From the ones I know (or am), none of them buy diamonds for GBg, and almost none of them neither buy diamonds during events, because they all already are in the 2-3k% attacking bonus range, and increasing attack bonus of 100% costs way to much money for just doing 1 more attrition in the end.
Furthermore, they are very few. Don't think they will care about these few hundred players all over the world if tens of thousands of other players are ready to pay more.
(This is what I feel from the french servers, maybe it's different elsewhere ?)

This being said, if this update goes live, it would be appreciable to lower a bit the parabolic increase in attrition percentage. 100 attrition is about 2200%, and if I remember well, 130 attrition is about 4500%. We are obviously never going to cross these (130), even in several years... For big players, the margin of progress quickly becomes close to zero

Anyway, please end this infinite farming tool

 

[Thunderdome]

The small players are not as likely to have the resources to constantly build SC, so the change will probably be less noticeable to them.

If they have their own guild(s), maybe. But if they are part of a large guild that builds SCs, then what happens with them? They won't be able to contribute as much as they did before and would felt pretty useless to their guild for coming up short as well as losing out big time on rewards that could have been gained if the old stuff was in place.

In my opinion, it would be a normal thing that stronger players can afford more fightings. If not, why would the weakers want to get stronger ?

As much as I like to see the infinite farming to end (cap the number of fights instead if people were doing thousands per day), this is not how to go about it.

And yes, I was the "weaker" one as I do not forget where I once was. I don't go flaunting around my muscles while pushing others away.

 

[Owl II]

In a general view, I feel that most of you seem to over evaluate the importance of big players to Innogames
From the ones I know (or am), none of them buy diamonds for GBg, and almost none of them neither buy diamonds during events, because they all already are in the 2-3k% attacking bonus range, and increasing attack bonus of 100% costs way to much money for just doing 1 more attrition in the end.
Furthermore, they are very few. Don't think they will care about these few hundred players all over the world if tens of thousands of other players are ready to pay more.
(This is what I feel from the french servers, maybe it's different elsewhere ?)

This being said, if this update goes live, it would be appreciable to lower a bit the parabolic increase in attrition percentage. 100 attrition is about 2200%, and if I remember well, 130 attrition is about 4500%. We are obviously never going to cross these (130), even in several years... For big players, the margin of progress quickly becomes close to zero

Have you ever calculated how many diamonds a good GBG fighting season requires? No? I'll tell you. From 30k to 50k, depending on how often the fortresses are placed.

Anyway, please end this infinite farming tool

I could join this demand. But how does the nerf of camps relate to this?

 

[jovada]

Have you ever calculated how many diamonds a good GBG fighting season requires? No? I'll tell you. From 30k to 50k, depending on how often the fortresses are placed.

Ok 30.000:10:50= 60 camps you buy and pay everyday. (not even taking in consideration the 50k what is 100 camps a day)
I showed i received 200 diamonds for 388 fights, (lets take it on 400 fights)

Investing that much for a big guild i think you do 80.000 fights over a season (i saw a guild 55 members having 100.000 fights)
A quick calculation: 80.000:400 = 200x200diamonds return is 40.000.

I don't think inno will be afraid if you buy no more camps.

 

[Owl II]

Ok 30.000:10:50= 60 camps you buy and pay everyday. (not even taking in consideration the 50k what is 100 camps a day)
I showed i received 200 diamonds for 388 fights, (lets take it on 400 fights)

Investing that much for a big guild i think you do 80.000 fights over a season (i saw a guild 55 members having 100.000 fights)
A quick calculation: 80.000:400 = 200x200diamonds return is 40.000.

I don't think inno will be afraid if you buy no more camps.

I think you're delusional again. And you don't even remotely have an idea what you're writing about. The probability of diamonds falling is 1%. 25 diamonds for 100 fights. You need to spend 200 fights to rush 1 building. The three-slot sector requires rush of 6 buildings at least in the fighting season. There are often more. For example: you captured a sector, build camps, captured neighboring sectors. Then you removed the camps, put up palaces. U removed the palaces after 4 hours, set traps if the enemy hits from an uncomfortable position. Then u removed the traps, replaced them with fortresses. One such cycle will require you to have 600 diamonds. Go do 1200 fights to offset the costs.

But we won't see it ever if the camps are nerfed. I am watching for the second season in a row how my colleagues are making a feeder out of a principled opponent. They just hang up flags and wait for someone to intercept the sectors

 

[jovada]

I think you're delusional again. And you don't even remotely have an idea what you're writing about. The probability of diamonds falling is 1%. 25 diamonds for 100 fights. You need to spend 200 fights to rush 1 building. The three-slot sector requires rush of 6 buildings at least in the fighting season. There are often more. For example: you captured a sector, build camps, captured neighboring sectors. Then you removed the camps, put up palaces. U removed the palaces after 4 hours, set traps if the enemy hits from an uncomfortable position. Then u removed the traps, replaced them with fortresses. One such cycle will require you to have 600 diamonds. Go do 1200 fights to offset the costs.

So showing figures , comparing with other guildmates makes me delusional ?? even if all the others are not so lucky as me and have only 150 back on 400 fights that is still 30.000 back for 30.000 invested. But who is delusional ? in 4h time placing camps, remove placing palace , remove placing traps ????? I don't know in what world you play, but please don't come again with the argument of good management then.

 

[Ponzi]

Have you ever calculated how many diamonds a good GBG fighting season requires? No? I'll tell you. From 30k to 50k, depending on how often the fortresses are placed.

That seems a lot. 50k is 1000 buildings, so 100 a day ? Never saw this

 

[Owl II]

That seems a lot. 50k is 1000 buildings, so 100 a day ? Never saw this

Perhaps that's why you don't understand the damage that nerf of camps will cause to the game. So it was at the very beginning, when the guilds really fought on GBG, and not farmed. It's rare now. But it will disappear completely after nerf

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I think you're delusional again. And you don't even remotely have an idea what you're writing about. The probability of diamonds falling is 1%. 25 diamonds for 100 fights. You need to spend 200 fights to rush 1 building. The three-slot sector requires rush of 6 buildings at least in the fighting season. There are often more. For example: you captured a sector, build camps, captured neighboring sectors. Then you removed the camps, put up palaces. U removed the palaces after 4 hours, set traps if the enemy hits from an uncomfortable position. Then u removed the traps, replaced them with fortresses. One such cycle will require you to have 600 diamonds. Go do 1200 fights to offset the costs.

We must be playing two different GBGs. On my main world, the process is regular as clockwork. Capture sector, replace SCs that the AI destroyed (the swap partner does not destroy them). Rush the SCs only it's necessary to provide support to a sector yet to be taken during that swap. Never build traps, rarely build watchtowers, Fortress only on X1X on the Waterfall map. Maybe need to rush 4-6 SCs each swap. 300 diamonds/swap, 5 swaps per day, 10 days. 15K diamonds per season. 60K battles should cover it.

 

[jovada]

Perhaps that's why you don't understand the damage that nerf of camps will cause to the game. So it was at the very beginning, when the guilds really fought on GBG, and not farmed. It's rare now. But it will disappear completely after nerf

Before at the very beginning , so you speak of more then 2 years ago. Also admitting that it became all about farming, since then on every map it's all about camps , so your cost is maybe not even 20.000 now making the return even bigger.