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Feedback Daily Changelog w/c 20th September

jovada

Regent
Regarding the "aid all" button i really think it's unnecessary.

First using this you will aid everbody , also those that never come back , maybe you think but if there is an "aid all" those that never aid will use it , i doubt it.
Second it is more something for the real lazy players so they have to do less, ( they already have GbG for lazyness)

Finally with the new tavern visit from history ( this is one good addition, not everything is bad :p ) it is easy to aid en visit now via history and view players that you better remove from your friendlist haha.
 

Juber

Overlord
Community Manager
and now imagine
the "aid all" is send to the server
the player can continue playing without waiting for the result

the server is working on the "aid all" while the player is playing his game
after 5-15 minutes the result is send to the game
This sounds like a good solution, but it has it flaws.
Firstly, there is currently no mechanic in the game, that works like this or is remotely similar to this. This means you have to create this core code basis, which a am not sure if it is even possible in HTML5.
I did some testing in the past and currently the game only can send and receive new requests, if the old ones are finished. (That is btw. a reason for the loading shield after many things, if it would be able to process requests in parallel, the loading shield would not be necessary. It restricts you from sending more requests, than the game can handle.)
Secondly there are edge cases like: What happens when you close your game, what if a friend removes you from your list while the game aids all players, what if the neighborhood changes? And many other edge cases that have to have a lot of careful thinking about.
I am not saying it is impossible, but the more complex something is and the more has to be developed, the less the chance that it will be implemented in the near future. The developers who do the work have to get paid somehow. ^^
Why do i have the feeling it's all a big lie ??
Give me one good reason why we should have lied in this thread. We were very open with the current situation in this one. We don't want to whitewash things. Or do you think sentences like 'When we designed and implemented GvG five years ago, it was not planned for Forge of Empires as a game to have ages past the Future Era.' or 'Code Base – Let’s simply say it’s complicated.' would be written, if we wanted to lie to players? We admitted, that GvG had problems and said, why we could not improve GvG like wanted.
They don't have the code anymore ?
Who said this? Where do you get this idea from?
Maybe i am really dumb but can you explain the several changes they made ?
1) They changed the possibilty to put spearman in the sectors
2) They transformed the use of champions in random army of the same age in sectors when granting freedom.
3) They tried to remove protection 1 day to every 4 hours
These were attempts to solve the issues players complained for years and the developers had. After bringing them to the players and seeing it did not help as much as wanted, they left the changes, that were definitely more positive and scraped the ones, that were not this good.
GvG to difficult to create maps after future era , instead an all ages map since arctic , they created maps apart for the colony's why not the same for GvG?
Would you play on the oceanic future map? Or on the virtual future one? I think not. And again, no word, that it is too difficult to do. The explanation there is ver different. Please read it again carefully.
Not enough players for GvG ?? You chased them away by stopping with the all ages map.
This is definitly not the reason, why GvG does not have many players. I would say the main reason is the complexity. It is just to difficult to understand. Every GvG guild I know has some tacticians and many, that only fight were they are told to. Sure, the same is true for gbg, but just compare how many there are compared to GvG. It's almost like the tacticians for gbg are as much as all GvG players. I think this really shows how much more complex GvG is.

___

Sorry if it sounds annoyed and if I attack one, this is not what I want. I just want to be clear with you and when I read a post with much disinformation, I just want to set the record straight. I hope you understand it. :)
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
First using this you will aid everbody , also those that never come back , maybe you think but if there is an "aid all" those that never aid will use it , i doubt it.
Second it is more something for the real lazy players so they have to do less, ( they already have GbG for lazyness)

I would. If it's not a diamond feature I'd even do it on my diamond mines.

I don't skip aid out of a desire to not have my contacts aided, I skip it because I don't want to click 200 times for what I consider now to be a not-so-essential feature.

If we go back 5 years I tended to have 60+ pages of event history. These days I tend to have ~30 on my most active worlds. On one of my worlds I actually had less than a full page recently.

It used to be aid was something you did when you wanted to try harder. It's now so far down that list because you often don't need that much aid yourself, so why bother spending your tedium clicks on aiding when you could be autobattling in GBG or something with the same clicks.
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
Would you play on the oceanic future map? Or on the virtual future one? I think not. And again, no word, that it is too difficult to do. The explanation there is ver different. Please read it again carefully.

Yes! GvG guilds would play on every GvG map if they existed. They would maintain stables of those units.

It's only really lower ages they ignore. Because they're not worth much for points.

The problem with All Ages that causes not many guilds to play it is that the medal costs only become significant once you have 100s of sectors. So often 1 or 2 guilds wind up ruling the entire map. It loses the smaller-guild-fights-cheaper advantage effectively and the only way to make meaningful progress on that map is to fight the best.

That would not happen with a goods-based AF/OF/VF/etc map. Age-locked maps typically have about 20 guilds you can challenge for some territory and you can pick the challenge that's appropriate to you.

I can understand not wanting to work on GvG anymore - it has all kinds of issues preventing it from having wide appeal (limited defensive capabilities compared to players cities, no mobile accessibility, no individual incentive vs other features with over the top individual incentives) - but the idea that a VF map would be any less popular than a FE map is misplaced.
 

MooingCat

Viceroy
Spoiler Poster
Yes! GvG guilds would play on every GvG map if they existed. They would maintain stables of those units.

It's only really lower ages they ignore. Because they're not worth much for points.

The problem with All Ages that causes not many guilds to play it is that the medal costs only become significant once you have 100s of sectors. So often 1 or 2 guilds wind up ruling the entire map. It loses the smaller-guild-fights-cheaper advantage effectively and the only way to make meaningful progress on that map is to fight the best.

That would not happen with a goods-based AF/OF/VF/etc map. Age-locked maps typically have about 20 guilds you can challenge for some territory and you can pick the challenge that's appropriate to you.

I can understand not wanting to work on GvG anymore - it has all kinds of issues preventing it from having wide appeal (limited defensive capabilities compared to players cities, no mobile accessibility, no individual incentive vs other features with over the top individual incentives) - but the idea that a VF map would be any less popular than a FE map is misplaced.
I'd LOVE to fight on AF+ maps! AF/OF in particular would be a lot of fun with all the different types of units :)
 

Juber

Overlord
Community Manager
I think every active player in a high age would love to play on these maps... for a short period of time. In long term, most of the maps would die out, like the ema-postmodern maps.
You also have to think about the amount of new data, that would have to be processed at the daily calculation. Currently we have many language versions, with some worlds each, with 13 maps each, with many sectors each. If they would add the maps for af+, this would add 6 new maps and increasing with each new era. Is it really worth it for InnoGames to do so? It would add server costs for something not many players would use in the long term.Just adding the maps will not improve the situation, it could maybe even worsen the current one.
All these issues we have with GvG were fixed with the gbg: No Daily Calculation, which puts a lot of strain to the servers, no restrictions on who can play it (browser and mobile), no maps that can die out, easy to grasp, but still has tactics and thinking involved, all goods get used, ...
Sadly gbg has problems on it's own, but I think the GvG issues were tackled very well. :)

___

But we've drifted away from the main topic. Let's get back to the update feedback!
 

DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
If again Inno had made a card every second age (so as not to multiply the cards and limit the calculation time).
IA + HMA + CA + PE + PME + TE + AF + VF + SAAB + AA or EMA + LMA + INA + ME + CE + FE + OF + SAM + SAV + AA
10 cards instead of the current 13!
 

SlytherinAttack

Viceroy
Baking Sudoku Master
Firstly, there is currently no mechanic in the game, that works like this or is remotely similar to this. This means you have to create this core code basis, which a am not sure if it is even possible in HTML5.
I did some testing in the past and currently the game only can send and receive new requests, if the old ones are finished. (That is btw. a reason for the loading shield after many things, if it would be able to process requests in parallel, the loading shield would not be necessary. It restricts you from sending more requests, than the game can handle.)
Secondly there are edge cases like: What happens when you close your game, what if a friend removes you from your list while the game aids all players, what if the neighborhood changes? And many other edge cases that have to have a lot of careful thinking about.
There is no doubt, server side code base has to change for supporting aid all. New requests happens only when old one's are finished, that was synchronous approach. Just implement the Asynchronous approach for handing requests when having long time taking tasks. In UI application programming these logic exist more than two (may be three) decades.

Edge cases, these can be handled with validating players (friends/hoods/guild) information in a perfect moment. Not sure how the code available. But gave my thoughts,

Player X - who is clicking aid all
Has friends like,
Players A and B
Has hoods like,
Players K and L
Has guildies,
Players Q and R.

Friends(F)/Hoods(H)/Guilds(G), are programmatically mentioned like,
X_#1F_A, X_#2F_B
X_#1H_K, X_#2H_L
X_#1G_R, X_#2G_R

So here, X is player, FHG are friends/hoods/guild respectively and '#' represent the ranking or index order of players.
-- assuming like this, when the moment of clicking aid all, got these players information and started doing aiding one by one. Before applying final aid action, can check the status of the players belongs to any groups aiding player with the programmatic code suggested above. If they don't have the matching code then just do a skip in the iteration and move on. Also, same check can be used before collecting the recieving players buildings for aid action. If they are not in player X groups, surely programmatic code mismatch and players list collected can be optimized accordingly. If ourselves logout, getting inventory updated with a "Aiding Bonus Crate" similar to boost crate mechanism solves the purpose. Like clubbing up all coins as one slot, all forge points as one slot, all random goods as one slot and all blueprints as one slot. It will helps the players to have use it whenever they wanted to use the bonus reward. Also, aiding bonus crate can show a label of how
many players receives the aiding successfully on which date. This count and date label helps us to compare when event quest or any quest deals with aiding.

One thing for sure, purely complex work to bring the aid all. If the code base doesn't have asynchronous behavior to handle from server side, R.I.P for Aid all button.
 

nice2haveu

Baronet
By next year reaching 10th anniversary, game devs can make the changes to server side code base to support new features (especially like aid all).
 

Owl II

Emperor
I would like to say a special thanks once again for taking care of usability and for this wonderful Heal all button. I went to the maps of the GVG of the early ages sometimes. I don't have stocks of these units and I won't build them. But I have one or two the units I have healed. I canceled the confirmation of spending diamonds to speed up the process. This part of the game is simply not available to me now.
 
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jovada

Regent
Inno's tactic is just like with pvp arena, give no reaction and finaly players will stop complaining , i heard somewhere that inno estimated a profit of 14millions dollar wordwide just by players miscliking the "heal all" button.
 

MooingCat

Viceroy
Spoiler Poster
Inno's tactic is just like with pvp arena, give no reaction and finaly players will stop complaining , i heard somewhere that inno estimated a profit of 14millions dollar wordwide just by players miscliking the "heal all" button.
That's around 2 billion diamonds at 29k for $200, so yeah that sounds way off xD
 

jovada

Regent
@DEADP00L

It was estimated in 1 year , not in 1 month, and maybe it is fake news or not , but can they explain then why they don't remove or reposition the "heal all" button that almost nobody use in purpose ????
 

-Alin-

Emperor
I can say, that this is definitely fake news! :)

Fake or not, the intention it was clear to make people spend diamonds on it, why the confirmation for diamonds was automatically disabled and the heal button was perfectly placed in the way of the mouse click?
We aren't that dumb as InnoGames thinks we are.

I apreciate You as CM, You are promt on Your answers, but InnoGames have serious issues to solve first of all, and are many, way too many.
 

DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
@jovada : rumors are the worst scourge of the internet!
Can you give the link of your source?
Otherwise, spreading false rumors is criminally responsible, including in a game, according to the international court of justice.
 
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