Feedback Cultural Settlements - Balancing Changes

[Umbrathor]

Doing my fourth settlement. Most important findings:
* the first day is unpleasantly frantic since I cannot find a way to build 2 axe smiths and NOT run out of copper coins. Would love to hear how other people tackle this. I'll explain the situation below.
* the goods for unlocking new buildings should be in a consistent order (has been remarked on by many, I'm just seconding them)
* I consistently finish with about 4-5 days left on the timer, though I often had luck early on with a x4. Not this time, plus bad luck on impediments, so I am intrigued to see how I will fare this time.

My strategy so far is:
* build shacks, 1 axe smith, then as many extra shacks as will fit while still connected by road
* start 4h axe production and use the axes for an expansion (in case of a lucky x4, I go for 3 expansions)
* add second axe smith, 4h again (I keep doing 4h productions at the beginning to maximize the chance of a x4 early on, which is statistically optimal)
* after I unlock the 3rd expansion with axes, I unlock Shrines and optimize the number of shrines. Shacks at that point can be not-connected if that means more room for a connected shrine. That means I usually have 2 axe smiths and 4 shrines plus a number of connected shacks.

I need to keep those shrines running at 5-min intervals to keep the coins rolling in sufficiently to run two 8h productioins at night. Even then I usually have one axe smith dormant for an hour or so in the morning, before I have enough coins to start another 4h. Once I get a 4th expansion, I have enough shrines to run them at 4h productions and still fund two axe smiths.

Does anyone have a better approach?

I've considered postponing the second axe smith, but that means slowing down production and halving your chances at a lucky x4 early on.

I'd prefer it if we had some more starting coins (something like 8.000) , or if we could take some of the remaining coins with us after we end a settlement. I always have lots of surplus coins at the end. If we could take some of that with us, it would help greatly to streamline that fist day.

 

[FrejaSP]

I would wait with the second axe smith and get 6 shrines and then try to get a stock of coins. No reason to place the axe smith, if you do not have enough coins

 

[Damjan88]

It seems to be designed to work that way, and have the biggest loss of time at the start. I usually try to fit 2 axesmiths at the start at 8h productions (hoping for a x4 so that i can get 2expansions, shrines and mead, unsuccessfully ) Then destroy one axesmith, get 2 expansions and shrines, i do a 2x4h + 1x8h and depending on when i started the settlement i either build an axesmith and do 2x4h or go to sleep with 1x8 production. That gets me to mead brew and i can run 2 of those with extra copper. So the beginning is either 1day and 4 hours or 1day and 8 hours(although the x4 bonus would make it just the initial 8h ). The x4 chance goes up to 25% at the end so that will play a bigger roll on how things progress..

 

[DeletedUser9536]

I still dont like pressure of doing it in time for fragments. If you do faster you will be awarded in getting them faster - I dont like time constrains.

 

[Damjan88]

There has to be some excitement and challenge otherwise nobody would play anything

 

[ebs the drunk]

Doing my fourth settlement. Most important findings:
* the first day is unpleasantly frantic since I cannot find a way to build 2 axe smiths and NOT run out of copper coins. Would love to hear how other people tackle this. I'll explain the situation below.
* the goods for unlocking new buildings should be in a consistent order (has been remarked on by many, I'm just seconding them)
* I consistently finish with about 4-5 days left on the timer, though I often had luck early on with a x4. Not this time, plus bad luck on impediments, so I am intrigued to see how I will fare this time.

My strategy so far is:
* build shacks, 1 axe smith, then as many extra shacks as will fit while still connected by road
* start 4h axe production and use the axes for an expansion (in case of a lucky x4, I go for 3 expansions)
* add second axe smith, 4h again (I keep doing 4h productions at the beginning to maximize the chance of a x4 early on, which is statistically optimal)
* after I unlock the 3rd expansion with axes, I unlock Shrines and optimize the number of shrines. Shacks at that point can be not-connected if that means more room for a connected shrine. That means I usually have 2 axe smiths and 4 shrines plus a number of connected shacks.

I need to keep those shrines running at 5-min intervals to keep the coins rolling in sufficiently to run two 8h productioins at night. Even then I usually have one axe smith dormant for an hour or so in the morning, before I have enough coins to start another 4h. Once I get a 4th expansion, I have enough shrines to run them at 4h productions and still fund two axe smiths.

Does anyone have a better approach?

I've considered postponing the second axe smith, but that means slowing down production and halving your chances at a lucky x4 early on.

I'd prefer it if we had some more starting coins (something like 8.000) , or if we could take some of the remaining coins with us after we end a settlement. I always have lots of surplus coins at the end. If we could take some of that with us, it would help greatly to streamline that fist day.

It takes 11 connect shacks to support 1 axesmith, so it's silly to count on them in the beginning. You typically have enough starting coins to get 2 expansions and shrines. When connected with roads, 2 shrines + 5 shacks is the minimum amount you need to produce enough coins in 4 hour cycles to support 1 axesmith. If you can build 3 shrines, you only need 2 shacks connected and if you have 4+ shrines you don't need any shacks connected.

How I start:

-Start, screenshot where all impediments are, write down all the goods required to unlock all the diplomacy stuff. Abandon settlement.
-Study screenshots, figure out where/if I can place 2 axesmiths and 6 shacks (required for 2 axesmiths). Also figure out where I should buy first 2 expansions and where to place shrines when I get them.

If I can build 2 axesmiths:
-Wait till about an hour before bed. Restart settlement. Build 6 shacks.
-Adjust shacks when built (I don't need them connected with roads). Build 2 axesmiths. Connect axesmiths and any possible shacks.
-When smiths are finished. Start 8 hour production in both. Go to bed.
-Wake up. Collect. Delete 1 axesmith. With 20+ axes it should be possible to buy 2 expansions and unlock shrines. So I do that.
-Set up at least 2 (ideally 4) shrines. Begin 4 hour cycles. Go to work, collect/restart on poo breaks.

If I can't build 2 axesmiths:
-Wait till about an hour before bed. Restart settlement. Build at least 3 shacks.
-Build 1 axesmith. Build any additional shacks. Connect everything.
-When smith is finished. Start 8 hour production. Go to bed.
-Wake up. Collect. Restart 8 hour production. Go to work.
-Collect after work. Proceed to buy expansions and unlock shrines.

That's how I've been starting since the changes. You could argue that I lose time restarting 8 hour on the 2nd example and you'd be right. For the most part I only do arranging/building either before or after work, can only collect/restart while working. So I lose a good portion of my first day if I can't build 2 axesmiths in the starting area.

 

[xivarmy]

It takes 11 connect shacks to support 1 axesmith, so it's silly to count on them in the beginning. You typically have enough starting coins to get 2 expansions and shrines. When connected with roads, 2 shrines + 5 shacks is the minimum amount you need to produce enough coins in 4 hour cycles to support 1 axesmith. If you can build 3 shrines, you only need 2 shacks connected and if you have 4+ shrines you don't need any shacks connected.

How I start:

-Start, screenshot where all impediments are, write down all the goods required to unlock all the diplomacy stuff. Abandon settlement.
-Study screenshots, figure out where/if I can place 2 axesmiths and 6 shacks (required for 2 axesmiths). Also figure out where I should buy first 2 expansions and where to place shrines when I get them.

If I can build 2 axesmiths:
-Wait till about an hour before bed. Restart settlement. Build 6 shacks.
-Adjust shacks when built (I don't need them connected with roads). Build 2 axesmiths. Connect axesmiths and any possible shacks.
-When smiths are finished. Start 8 hour production in both. Go to bed.
-Wake up. Collect. Delete 1 axesmith. With 20+ axes it should be possible to buy 2 expansions and unlock shrines. So I do that.
-Set up at least 2 (ideally 4) shrines. Begin 4 hour cycles. Go to work, collect/restart on poo breaks.

If I can't build 2 axesmiths:
-Wait till about an hour before bed. Restart settlement. Build at least 3 shacks.
-Build 1 axesmith. Build any additional shacks. Connect everything.
-When smith is finished. Start 8 hour production. Go to bed.
-Wake up. Collect. Restart 8 hour production. Go to work.
-Collect after work. Proceed to buy expansions and unlock shrines.

That's how I've been starting since the changes. You could argue that I lose time restarting 8 hour on the 2nd example and you'd be right. For the most part I only do arranging/building either before or after work, can only collect/restart while working. So I lose a good portion of my first day if I can't build 2 axesmiths in the starting area.

Have you had layouts where you can't build 2 axesmiths? When i was testing diamond runs i was always able to get 2 mead breweries in the starting 8x8. Though sometimes it wasn't simple axe smiths are significantly smaller (and on my diamondless runs i've had no trouble fitting 2 axe smiths to dump the initial copper for the same sort of fast start you're aiming for).

My general run:
1) 2 axe smiths + shacks for 4 hours x 2 (4 total chances at getting a x4 proc that has never happened for me at this stage yet - but gee it'd be nice). 2 expansions + shrines, down to 1 axe smith, add what i can for shrines, save for mead breweries (copper should be increasing by this point)
2) while the first axe smith cycles are running plan out a layout in a spreadsheet using up to 12 expansions (plus the 8x8 start) and huts to support 5-6 goods buildings in quantities roughly appropriate to my goods needs. Important to do this now to know which expansions i want. Try to get an idea of where to put an extra of each goods building type in case it's behind and the critical good at some point.
3) upon getting mead breweries, tear down axe smith and put up 2 mead breweries, get 3 expansions with mead to make a 12x12 city. (copper may initially be decreasing but should be fixed once the mead expansions are up)
4) adjust goods building count as needed to get to huts asap (running 2-3 goods buildings).
5) relayout for huts instead of shacks and adjust goods to get to beast hunter while building copper (still 2-3 goods buildings).
6) unlock beast hunter and adjust layout to support 4 beast hunters and no other goods (will be losing copper to start but the expansions to fix that will come fast). Get the rest of the expansions for the layout planned in 2 as fast as possible and place more shrines to slow/stop burning copper as i go.
7) adjust goods to get to wool (5-6 goods buildings, copper balancedish)
8) adjust goods to get to finish (possibly add markets depending on layout) (5-7 goods buildings, copper balanced or decreasing to use up excess)
9) go back and complete quests which will be pretty close to instant at this point

I may also build a clan house or two, but by the time i have them unlocked there's usually no more than a day and a half to go so they don't save any time. I may have the copper to destroy shrines though at that point and the extra population density makes finishing the quests more straight-forward.

 

[ebs the drunk]

Have you had layouts where you can't build 2 axesmiths? When i was testing diamond runs i was always able to get 2 mead breweries in the starting 8x8. Though sometimes it wasn't simple axe smiths are significantly smaller (and on my diamondless runs i've had no trouble fitting 2 axe smiths to dump the initial copper for the same sort of fast start you're aiming for).

My first settlement had 3.impediments, 2 of them took 2 spaces. I don't remember their exact layouts but I remember I struggled at the time to connect 5 shacks and 1 axesmith. Even with detaching shacks I don't think I would've had room for a 2nd smith and the 6th shack. Even though I haven't encountered it again I planned for the possibility of only having 1.

My general run:
1) 2 axe smiths + shacks for 4 hours x 2 (4 total chances at getting a x4 proc that has never happened for me at this stage yet - but gee it'd be nice). 2 expansions + shrines, down to 1 axe smith, add what i can for shrines, save for mead breweries (copper should be increasing by this point)
2) while the first axe smith cycles are running plan out a layout in a spreadsheet using up to 12 expansions (plus the 8x8 start) and huts to support 5-6 goods buildings in quantities roughly appropriate to my goods needs. Important to do this now to know which expansions i want. Try to get an idea of where to put an extra of each goods building type in case it's behind and the critical good at some point.
3) upon getting mead breweries, tear down axe smith and put up 2 mead breweries, get 3 expansions with mead to make a 12x12 city. (copper may initially be decreasing but should be fixed once the mead expansions are up)
4) adjust goods building count as needed to get to huts asap (running 2-3 goods buildings).
5) relayout for huts instead of shacks and adjust goods to get to beast hunter while building copper (still 2-3 goods buildings).
6) unlock beast hunter and adjust layout to support 4 beast hunters and no other goods (will be losing copper to start but the expansions to fix that will come fast). Get the rest of the expansions for the layout planned in 2 as fast as possible and place more shrines to slow/stop burning copper as i go.
7) adjust goods to get to wool (5-6 goods buildings, copper balancedish)
8) adjust goods to get to finish (possibly add markets depending on layout) (5-7 goods buildings, copper balanced or decreasing to use up excess)
9) go back and complete quests which will be pretty close to instant at this point

I may also build a clan house or two, but by the time i have them unlocked there's usually no more than a day and a half to go so they don't save any time. I may have the copper to destroy shrines though at that point and the extra population density makes finishing the quests more straight-forward.

You use 12 total expansions or 12+the starting 4? If you're using 12+4 you're wasting a lot of time there gathering goods for expansions you don't really need.

 

[DeletedUser8277]

Maybe I'm the only one left still not having any success at all with this. I'm only at quest 12 and my timers ran out days ago. I can't get enough goods to unlock the buildings because I can't get enough coins to make the goods because I can't get any expansions because I have no goods... It makes no sense to me.

Also it doesn't make any sense that this: is how the game is actually designed to be played? Remove all your buildings to put down 50 1x1 diplomacy buildings so you can unlock the next thing and then delete 50 1x1s so you can put down the next thing? What is the point of that? At least give us the option to delete more than 1 and hopefully reduce building time for all things to a minute since everything you have to do with this is rip up a city, put in temp stuff to unlock then rip it up again.

Sorry not a fan and if anything I've found this much worse than the first one I played where I was closer to finishing by now. Quite possibly I don't understand it but there's nothing I find fun or interesting about it making me want to attempt a 3rd run to understand it any better.

 

[xivarmy]

You use 12 total expansions or 12+the starting 4? If you're using 12+4 you're wasting a lot of time there gathering goods for expansions you don't really need.

I use up to 12 plus the starting 4. the 11th and 12th don't save time but don't cost it either when taken at that point of the settlement (that is they save about as much time by enabling making more goods as i spend on making the goods to unlock them - so if they work better for the layout i take em).

 

[FrejaSP]

You are duing it all wrong
Stop trying so hard. You need lots of shrines, not lots of runestone. Runestones are fine, where nothing else can be placed.
Here I'm getting ready to unlock Markets. Can you see the diff in your settlement and mine?

 

[Damjan88]

Ok, so here are a few tips for people still struggling with the time rewards, that i picked up both from my own experience and others on the forum

Goods​

- you need to be able to produce between 25 and 30 goods per goods building per day (25 when rebuilding the city and 30 when just producing)
- you also need to be able to run 2 goods building by the time you reach mead breweries, 3 by the time you get to beast and 4 by the time you get to wool farms (if you can manage this you should be able to complete the settlement in about 10 days +/- 1-2 days depending on your luck with the x4 bonus and maximized goods production)

Copper
- your main source of copper income must come from shrines and markets (except at the very beginning), try to maximize the numbers of each of those depending on your layout
- shacks/huts and clan houses are a nice bonus to copper but will not be enough to run the city on just them
- you need between 5000 and 6000 copper per building per day in order to get the maximum out of goods building (this is where your own schedule will matter the most, but i found thet a 1x8h prod + as many 4h will probably be enough to reach the desired numbers)
-you will find yourself often in a situation where you can either fit an extra goods building but not have enough copper to run all of them OR have enough copper for an extra building but no room (the second option is preferable because a surplus of copper can be used later for an extra good building to run for a few cycles before returning to copper production)

Diplomacy
- the bulk of your diplomacy needs to come from shrines and marketplaces (except at the very end) which you should be maximizing anyways for the copper production
-some can be gained by fitting in runestones/clan totem in the nooks around the city, and also buildings only need to be connected by a path on one field (so if you have a hut at the end of a road you can delete two path block and place a clan totem in their place)
-the rest you have 2 options a) you replace roads with runestones for a few minutes
b)you wait until you need to do some major rebuilding (switching from shack to huts, or from one goods building to another) and place the runstones in place of the demolished building, unlock stuff and the delete them, this way you do not interfere with the city to much
-important note- you only need the diplomacy to unlock stuff and you do not need to unlock them right away

Expansions
-you need between 8 and 12 (plus the 4 at the start), i went for 10 every time i completed the settlement
-i did the 2/2/2/4 route which works well for me and is the cheapest one, however people have gone 3-5 expansions with axes at the start and then some combination for the rest (so far as i can see there is no difference in which route you chose because we all had pretty much the same completion time)

Quests
-dont get boged down on which quest you are at certain time, it makes no difference
- you need 1000 diplomacy and 45 population to complete quests 1-19 in literally one minute, because they all follow a pattern build x / have x diplomacy / build x ...
-the last quest requires 1200 diplomacy and 6 goods buildings (do the diplomacy part first, fastest way is to just get 50 clan totems, unlock everything and then delete them all)

This is for people who have the time to do the timed challenge, if you can't because of life and obligations the basics still apply, you just dont need to min/max stuff, you can run everything on 8 h productions and just have one good building less (it might take just a week longer to do a settlement)

 

[ebs the drunk]

I use up to 12 plus the starting 4. the 11th and 12th don't save time but don't cost it either when taken at that point of the settlement (that is they save about as much time by enabling making more goods as i spend on making the goods to unlock them - so if they work better for the layout i take em).

you only need about 8-9 additional expansions. using 12 means you need to make an additional 63 goods along the line. that can be about 8 hours to a day of additional production depending how you look at it. not trying to knock your style, just thinking it could save you a little time.

@Manda the first I'll put up my general full approach later. Maybe it'll help you understand things a bit better but yes deletion is very important for settlements. you'll delete things a lot.
Also you may want to consider abandoning that settlement and start over so you have a shot at the timed rewards.

 

[xivarmy]

using 12 instead of 9 at horns actually means i need to make a bit less than 150 extra goods. But it also increases goods production by about 25-30 goods per day with 5-7 days of goods production to go for the techs (extra pop, goods building, and shrines included). It should be noted I don't necessarily always choose to go to 12 - I just treat that as a limit in terms of trying to make a good layout with huts that can fit a variety of goods buildings.

 

[Dan 49 the fearless]

I did 2 expansions with axes. 2 with mead and 3 with horns. Build enough houses to put up 2 axes. Produce 8 hours. Unlock and expand. Delete an axe and put up as many shrines as will fit. Lose shack production if necessary. Produce axe 4 hours with remaining coin. Produce enough axes to unlock mead and then delete some shrines to put down a mead. Expand again. Put down another mead or axe depending on which you need more if you have the time to collect from shrines more frequently. If not still should get done in time. Unlock huts and rearrange settlement for huts. Unlock beast hunter and replace the third if you had one or put down a third goods building now. Expand then put down a 4th goods building if you collect more frequently or leave it if you collect less frequently. Haven't run the numbers with 3 but with 4 for myself I've finished with 5 or 6 days left so I think it should work. After beast hunter is unlocked collect enough goods for everything except wool until you've collected all necessary goods. Once done delete for diplomacy then unlock until wool. Put down as many wool as you need to finish. Then delete the wool. And put down 1000 diplomacy. Try not to tear down your huts. Then get to 1200 diplomacy. Once done delete all the rune stones and put down the 6 axes or beast masters and you are done. Markets may be necessary to get for less frequent collections but I found them unnecessary for what I was doing aside from putting one down and then deleting it in order to complete that quest.

 

[DeletedUser9537]

The squares in Blue are the only ones that will connect without needing an expansion which has obstacles.

The Green square is where I'll build my 1st Mead Production Bldg.

Scoot the Axe building to the right which will open a roadway to the Exp below. There are a few more Diplomacy Runestones now then there will be and of course, I will be building Huts once the Mead Productions get built (as soon as the Axes are done I'll temporarily reduce to one Bldg so I can get a 2nd Mead in there )

 

[Damjan88]

The trees on the map aren't obstacles, so you can get those as well

 

[softly explorer]

Trees are NOT obstacles !! ;-)

 

[Lionhead]

Just about to finish my 4th playthrough. A bit more than 3 days to spare. Didn´t use a single diamond.
Went for the 3/2/2/2 expansion option. And did as many 8 hr productions as possible, which were a lot. I got X4 on 2 or 3 occassions, but everyone was on an 8 hr. production. Copper-production was done in mostly 1 hr cycles, when not at work, or else in the shortest possible cycles.

http://prntscr.com/lzh9j9

 

[FrejaSP]

I was worried about the time this time, but it look like I will make it in time. I do have the Diplomacy
Except for 2 horn, will I have it all in 8 hours. I will have to raise the Meat Hall, that will give me the diplomacy, I need to get 1200.
I really have been fighting the time this time and I may choose to buy the 2 horn for diamond but I would have time, and can replace a markets place with a beast hunter and still the 1200 diplomacy but the last goods building have to be placed after I get the diplomacy as one of the wood farms will be replaced of the mead hall.