Feedback Guild Expedition Update

[ArklurBeta]

As others pointed out, these numbers are overkill, especially since now it's about def army boost and not attack army boost. For the most part players who I either using higher age units or the very-very few who went all-in for def army boosts "as a meme" will able to get all (or most) of the fights, for the rest....likely only neg is the realistic option.

 

[Gedrog]

I posted this a few days ago in GE 5 SPOILERS...brought it over here to help:
_______________________________________________________

Here's another interesting "how it currently works" dichotomy:

1) Orange Juice from Attack boost FLASKS - DO NOT STACK for attacks. So the BEST you can get "on-demand" (for attacking army) is:

20% attacking inventory flask + best tavern item at 30% attack for silver = 50% total on demand attack.


2) Blue juice from Defense boost FLASKS - WILL STACK for city defense. SO if you have a lot of them.... They seem to do the same in GE 5 defense (now that it's released)

If you have 50, 20% flasks - you got 1000% defense help (for 8 hours).

Seems like all those blue flasks we usually sell, just got very valuable?...

The price of defense poker just went up..

But it will only help for one or two maybe three GE level 5 seasons and you would have burned through all of it it took me a year to build up 256 units and I burned up 89 oft them to get through Level 5 hence a false economy

 

[Beta567]

I bet they see this feedback and will cut the numbers for the def boost but they also will cut the prize value. and we'll get crappy items with still crappy GE5 mechanics. Please don't do it. We need something different. I already suggested an idea not to rely on military boost but on a skill of a player.

 

[mcbluefire]

- Iron age should be more than 30; that it's been only 75 for GE4 was probably an undershot. But maybe like 200 would be good there (for GE80 in iron)

It has to at least fit in somewhat realistically with a players ability to get the stat. 200 attack against a player's defense stat in Iron Age is NOT reasonable. They'd have to have all three defense GB's in place and at L111 to have 231% defense.

Don't go based on GE4 only as a rule of thumb. Have to consider typical progress and where to weigh in defense boost.

 

[outoftheline]

Please do no include that "new level" in the championships. Too much pressure.

 

[xivarmy]

It has to at least fit in somewhat realistically with a players ability to get the stat. 200 attack against a player's defense stat in Iron Age is NOT reasonable. They'd have to have all three defense GB's in place and at L111 to have 231% defense.

Don't go based on GE4 only as a rule of thumb. Have to consider typical progress and where to weigh in defense boost.

We are talking about the ultimate level, and there are iron-age campers. It's not a problem if they need to build up. Someone doesn't need to be doing GE5 on their first week of GE (though I do do that for GE4 by negotiation on new worlds, that would be a *huge* stretch for GE5).

Furthermore the best sources pre-GE5 of defense other than Basil and TA, are watchfires, ritual flames, and tactician towers. Which don't scale with age. Btw your 49 square Lv111 deal castle for 81% boost can be replaced by 14 L2 watchfires, and 21 L2 tactician towers. Now that is "a lot" but ritual flames are pretty common and as good as watchfires.

 

[mcbluefire]

We are talking about the ultimate level, and there are iron-age campers. It's not a problem if they need to build up. Someone doesn't need to be doing GE5 on their first week of GE (though I do do that for GE4 by negotiation on new worlds, that would be a *huge* stretch for GE5).

Furthermore the best sources pre-GE5 of defense other than Basil and TA, are watchfires, ritual flames, and tactician towers. Which don't scale with age. Btw your 49 square Lv111 deal castle for 81% boost can be replaced by 17 L2 watchfires, and 21 L2 tactician towers. Now that is "a lot" but ritual flames are pretty common.

This "utlimate" level is using a different stat than is needed for any other activity that actually gains the player something. You cannot go "well, since it took 70 oranges to get GE 4, it should take 200 apples to do GE5."

Thus, after a person does GE4 about 120 times then they should have a possibility of completing GE80 with the defense boost they've built up in *Iron Age*? Can't just view it as a player whose been doing this for 6+ years.

 

[mcbluefire]

In SAJM GE80 isn't possible with the amount of city space currently available if the player removes all their current non defense providing buildings. That means everything gone - all GBs, etc that don't contribute to defense boost.

But GE5 is that important, right? ROFL!

FYI, I was an Iron Age camper until I messed myself up on the dang Colonial map...

 

[xivarmy]

This "utlimate" level is using a different stat than is needed for any other activity that actually gains the player something. You cannot go "well, since it took 70 oranges to get GE 4, it should take 200 apples to do GE5."

Thus, after a person does GE4 about 120 times then they should have a possibility of completing GE80 with the defense boost they've built up in *Iron Age*? Can't just view it as a player whose been doing this for 6+ years.

In fact what I was saying, was it should've taken *more* oranges for GE4 than it did. And apples are more efficiently obtainable than oranges in iron age anyways. So 200 apples seems fine

If your "30% Defense" GE5 was a thing, GE5 would be *easier* than GE4 in iron age And doable the first week by fighting after negotiating GE4 quite possibly

 

[mcbluefire]

Yep, seems fine to you. As a new player it should take a few weeks to get ready for GE4 and it took me about 1.5 months. So then the new player finds out in GE5 they need to spend about 4 or more months to get ready to finish it? Naw, thanks. Done with the game.

 

[xivarmy]

In SAJM GE80 isn't possible with the amount of city space currently available if the player removes all their current non defense providing buildings. That means everything gone - all GBs, etc that don't contribute to defense boost.

I think your math is wrong on this claim. I agree it's not "worth it" and have said as much. But say a round 2000 is enough if you know what you're doing - you have an AO after all and they don't, you have consumables and fortifications that while they're underwhelming compared to the total needed, they could catch you up some. So I think you could make a case for it being beatable with 2000 vs the 2500.

2000/4 = 500 tactician towers.
2000/6 = 333 watchfires.

833/16 = ~52 expansions or about a quarter of a space age city without diamond expansions (ignoring the difficulty of winning that many tactician towers )

 

[MJ Artisan of War]

The GE5 INNOvation is garbage... Period.

 

[mcbluefire]

2000 defense will not defend against 2500 attack. Where are you getting that from? You hoping AO will make that work?

 

[xivarmy]

Yep, seems fine to you. As a new player it should take a few weeks to get ready for GE4 and it took me about 1.5 months. So then the new player finds out in GE5 they need to spend about 4 or more months to get ready to finish it? Naw, thanks. Done with the game.

Something to reach for in an optional feature would cause you to quit the game? Then we want different games.

There are problems with the current numbers (1000% in iron age - yea, no, never), but some amount of a challenge should be fine.

 

[mcbluefire]

But, yeah, let's at least agree we are all on the same page this is ridiculous for one tiny portion of the game and not get lost in the weeds of details instead of saying, "Come on, Inno....fix this."

 

[mcbluefire]

Something to reach for in an optional feature would cause you to quit the game? Then we want different games.

There are problems with the current numbers (1000% in iron age - yea, no, never), but some amount of a challenge should be fine.

Not *me*, I will ignore GE5. I'm talking about a new player that wants to be able to help their guild fully every week.

 

[xivarmy]

2000 defense will not defend against 2500 attack. Where are you getting that from? You hoping AO will make that work?

It's still basically an attack, but using your defending army stats. And you still see what you're fighting in advance to pick units that are a favorable matchup. And it appears the AI is still stupid enough to target rogues first. And you can fight on manual and do better than the AI. And yes, you can have an AO that increases your damage output substantially (which if you're having a defensive duel is actually a much bigger deal when you're trading 1 damage back and forth but sometimes you get to promote 1 damage to 2 with an AO crit).

 

[mcbluefire]

Aye, but back in reality land there is no good reason to spend the guild goods to unlock GE5 as GE5 is a sink for the guild members's goods and diamonds for a 28 day expiring building?

 

[xivarmy]

Not *me*, I will ignore GE5. I'm talking about a new player that wants to be able to help their guild fully every week.

Such a new player is likely not even to be invited into a guild that can open GE5 It's expensive for casual guilds! And non-casual guilds want all their players with treasury buildings for GBG. By the time you can get into a typical GBG/GE5 guild, you will not be a new player.

 

[xivarmy]

Aye, but back in reality land there is no good reason to spend the guild goods to unlock GE5 as GE5 is a sink for the guild members's goods and diamonds for a 28 day expiring building?

If you're a casual guild, sure. Most guilds of strong players will unlock it because at least some of them will want to do it. I *will* be unlocking it on at least a few servers on live - even if it releases as-is and effectively forces negotiation Yes I want that 28 day building that badly