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Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

blueskydwg

Steward
Well, how does this differ from the current situation?(on live servers)
I can only speak for my main guild - when we're in full diamond (our guild is 32 members with about half strong active fighters) unless we have an agreement with one of the bigs, we're lucky to have one or two tiles directly attached to our HQ. The two or three bigs will have all of the map, including the beach tiles.
 

HunZ95

Squire
In this context, who is "You". A player? Inno? Players did not introduce the SC/WT change, INNO did. INNO didn't say that it was to allow the weak to enjoy farming, players did. It's not hard to believe that you are having a hard time understanding this. How about we just continue to collect real data and base decisions on data instead of feelings, opinions, innuendo, etc. That, to answer your question, it "what the riot is all about".
The funny thing is that so far almost only the opponents of the change have shown pictures of the maps and statistics.
Supporters of the change speak from intuition and assumptions, but so far they have not been able to substantiate with anything that the GBG has changed beneficially in any form.
 

blueskydwg

Steward
The further it develops, the less I understand why nerf was introduced. You chanted at the beginning that this would allow the weak to enjoy farming, because the strong would not be able to control the map. Now you are ready to agree that the weak will be content with the shores as before and if they only want to. So what was the riot about?
Am I the "you" you reference? If so, yes I do think this will allow some amount of opportunity for the smaller guilds if they want it. (And that's a major if - some will, some won't). Just take a look at our current map. One week into this season and there are three tiles that have never been acquired. In seasons past we would have sucked up everything available and swapped with anyone (except KYP of course LOL) that could keep up with us. This season we don't bother with the small stuff. And is that because our heavy hitters are maxing out attrition? Can't think of another reason.
 

Aragorn I

Farmer
I believe that with this change, small guilds like mine will no longer have the motivation to participate in the CBG. I usually spend resources (goods and diamonds) to gain an advantage over larger guilds allowing players in my guild to multiply their fights and thus conquer as many territories as possible in a short time, but now it won't be worth it anymore.
 

blueskydwg

Steward
The funny thing is that so far almost only the opponents of the change have shown pictures of the maps and statistics.
Supporters of the change speak from intuition and assumptions, but so far they have not been able to substantiate with anything that the GBG has changed beneficially in any form.
Sorry - look back at my comments. I gave specific examples of the impact I observed directly.
As a mid level player in a large guild my fights more than doubled and my attrition averaged about 55%

Don't get me wrong - this change is helping me in beta but in my main world it will cut my fights in half. So it's a case of I like it here but it will cause some adjustment in live.

I'm sure it will allow more action on the mid level players and the smaller guilds - but only if they choose to take advantage of the open tiles and fights available because the bigs max out attrition. And that's a big "if". My guess (and that's all it is) is that most player don't really care or they would already have moved to one of the mega guilds.
 

blueskydwg

Steward
I believe that with this change, small guilds like mine will no longer have the motivation to participate in the CBG. I usually spend resources (goods and diamonds) to gain an advantage over larger guilds allowing players in my guild to multiply their fights and thus conquer as many territories as possible in a short time, but now it won't be worth it anymore.
Why would it impact your motivation? You'd still want the reward. And if this keeps the large guilds from dominating the map because they max out earlier, then it gives the smaller guilds the opportunity to take more tiles. Granted, they won't be those juicy 3 building tiles near the center - but you weren't getting those most times in full diamond anyway.
 

jovada

Regent
The funny thing is that so far almost only the opponents of the change have shown pictures of the maps and statistics.
Supporters of the change speak from intuition and assumptions, but so far they have not been able to substantiate with anything that the GBG has changed beneficially in any form.
I suggest you start reading again ,
First i already posted maps and statistics.
Second some other players from small guilds that test here on beta also said they had a little more chances to gain sectors.
Third it's mostly the non active on beta like you who tested nothing, that speak from intuition and assumptions.
 

DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
Jovada > Don't fit into their game.

Inno asks us how we feel, not what we foresee for the future or to talk about the possible case of others.
They have the numbers to see if GbGs are used more with the nerf.
We all know that some will type less, it's a fact!
We all know that we will all earn less rewards, that's also a fact!
We all know that the big guilds will no longer finish their attrition at the end of the evening on the beach sectors, it is once again a fact.
We also know that a guild that does not want to type will not do more, with or without this nerf!

Inno does not care about the poll which is distorted by the feelings of some and the silence of the majority of players who ignore the forum.

Let's just share our experience so that Inno can see if it generates bugs or not.
To know if the nerf is effective, it is not on Dunarsund that Inno will see it but on the live servers. Where we will see the same complaints, the same threats from those who have still not understood that only Inno can see if diamond spending is increasing, if GbG activity is better distributed, etc...
And after 2 or 3 seasons in live server, Inno like the communities will then be able to draw the conclusion if the nerve is well calculated, if it must be raised, lowered, deleted and if another modification proves to be necessary.

With these good words, I go back to get some popcorn to read the estimates of all his nostradamus!
 

Lucky Starr

Farmer
"Walking works just fine, why do we need cars?"
"2012: Forge of Empires works fine. Why do we need to make updates?"
"Going to school worked fine for many years, why do I need to find a job now?"

(I just wanted to show, that I hate the argument "Never change a running/working system")
Your examples relate to situations where the environment is changing and you have to adapt. There is almost a compulsion to innovate.

But if the environment doesn't change and you just want to change a system for the sake of change, then this saying definitely applies. Then it boils down to making problems out of nowhere.

And here at GG we have a running system, which from different points of view is not running optimally, but you want to change something, what works and the changes will have exactly the opposite effect of what you actually want to achieve.

That's why "never change a running system", unless you have an innovation that does satisfy to a changed environment.
The saying "Never change a running/working system" fits very well here.
 

King Flush

Marquis
Lots of speculation - here's some facts.
I've tracked my attrition vs. fights for the past two seasons.
I'm mainly fighting with 2, 3, or 4 SCs.
My attrition for the full first season was 57.31%
My attrition so far this season is 57.11%
Both of those are right in line with what I was expecting with a cap at 66.6%
My fights in these two seasons is more than double what it was averaging in the prior 10 seasons.
Why? Now we're into speculation but I can say that it is much easier for me to find supported fights now than it was before the change.
Prior to the change most times I'd check the map there would be nothing available, or at most only tiles with no support or at most one SC.
Now I can get 3 an 4 support tiles just about every time I check.
Could it be that those that were normally getting all the free fights they wanted are now limited to 4 or 5 hundred?
Geeee, I wonder.
this is how I read your results - you're in a guild that prior, couldn't be bothered getting players together and to go out and conquer, now everyone is restricted you can go out and farm with no effort, you have no interest in battles, you don't check the map for when sectors are opening but just hope that when click on there's something you can hit, for you and your guild GBG is just about gaining some rewards, sound about right? I'm sure you are no different than most (perhaps) all in the 'for' camp that don't want 'battle' grounds to be at all about battling but just as a way to farm. the nerf might work for those with this mindset, at least until traps start being more commonplace, but taking the 'battle' out of 'battle' grounds can't be a good thing from gameplay point of view. you're comparing zero effort results, try a campaign without the nerf activated but instead of the zero effort approach try to coordinate your guildmates and take some sectors by force you will likely find you gain more sectors and fights than either of your two examples and you never know you might actually find there's some fun to be had in GBG by doing so.
 

blueskydwg

Steward
this is how I read your results - you're in a guild that prior, couldn't be bothered getting players together and to go out and conquer, now everyone is restricted you can go out and farm with no effort, you have no interest in battles, you don't check the map for when sectors are opening but just hope that when click on there's something you can hit, for you and your guild GBG is just about gaining some rewards, sound about right? I'm sure you are no different than most (perhaps) all in the 'for' camp that don't want 'battle' grounds to be at all about battling but just as a way to farm. the nerf might work for those with this mindset, at least until traps start being more commonplace, but taking the 'battle' out of 'battle' grounds can't be a good thing from gameplay point of view. you're comparing zero effort results, try a campaign without the nerf activated but instead of the zero effort approach try to coordinate your guildmates and take some sectors by force you will likely find you gain more sectors and fights than either of your two examples and you never know you might actually find there's some fun to be had in GBG by doing so.
Couldn't be more wrong. Our guild has active battleground managers that call out available tiles - make sure appropriate buildings are built, coordinate with other guild commanders. All the right things. Look for other guilds to work with, but always want to finish as the number 1.

Nice try though.

And perhaps when you've been in Beta for more than a few days, have joined a guild, have more than one battle, and have built your first GB your thoughts might have more value to the Beta process. Just saying. LOL
 
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DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
the nerf might work for those with this mindset, at least until traps start being more commonplace,
In which language will it be necessary to tell you?

If the traps are set against the smaller guilds, it is because this nerf scares you and therefore you admit that the smaller guilds will not be as disadvantaged as you say.

If the traps are set against the big guilds, it means that the competition will finally begin and that there will be no more coordination between 2 guilds.

If the traps are set against everyone, you will slow yourself down and then you will suffer equal retaliations, everyone will lose. But not because of the nerve because of your mentality.
 
this is how I read your results - you're in a guild that prior, couldn't be bothered getting players together and to go out and conquer, now everyone is restricted you can go out and farm with no effort, you have no interest in battles, you don't check the map for when sectors are opening but just hope that when click on there's something you can hit, for you and your guild GBG is just about gaining some rewards, sound about right? I'm sure you are no different than most (perhaps) all in the 'for' camp that don't want 'battle' grounds to be at all about battling but just as a way to farm. the nerf might work for those with this mindset, at least until traps start being more commonplace, but taking the 'battle' out of 'battle' grounds can't be a good thing from gameplay point of view. you're comparing zero effort results, try a campaign without the nerf activated but instead of the zero effort approach try to coordinate your guildmates and take some sectors by force you will likely find you gain more sectors and fights than either of your two examples and you never know you might actually find there's some fun to be had in GBG by doing so.
I really am impressed. You can discern all of this from the information that @blueskydwg provided. Wow!

I'll give you another scenario that is just as plausible. He is in a strong GBG guild but has a schedule that does not permit him to regularly participate in the 4-hour swap dance. Consequently, prior to the SC change, he was mostly limited to what we call "snacks" in my guild (low priority sectors in the outer rings that are FFA). These "snacks" are usually 1SC or 0SC. Now, because of the SC change, his guildmates attrition out before the end of the day leaving prime sectors still available.

Now, I don't know if my scenario is accurate, or not. That simply does not matter. What does matter is that he wants to get more battles and that is what is happening. For him, the SC change is having positive effects. My bet is that this is what INNO is interested in hearing.
 

blueskydwg

Steward
In which language will it be necessary to tell you?

If the traps are set against the smaller guilds, it is because this nerf scares you and therefore you admit that the smaller guilds will not be as disadvantaged as you say.

If the traps are set against the big guilds, it means that the competition will finally begin and that there will be no more coordination between 2 guilds.

If the traps are set against everyone, you will slow yourself down and then you will suffer equal retaliations, everyone will lose. But not because of the nerve because of your mentality.
And for a factual observation - in one and a half completed battlegrounds there have been zero traps set in our full diamond league competition.
None, nada, zilch.
 

King Flush

Marquis
Couldn't be more wrong. Our guild has active battleground managers that call out available tiles - make sure appropriate buildings are built, coordinate with other guild commanders. All the right things. Look for other guilds to work with, but always want to finish as the number 1.

Nice try though.

And perhaps when you've been in Beta for more than a few days, have joined a guild, have more than one battle, and have built your first GB your thoughts might have more value to the Beta process. Just saying. LOL
then I'm at a loss at how you are getting more fights maybe your guild is competitive but it's just simply you who doesn't try?

no desire to set a city up on Beta, don't have the time for that.
 
And for a factual observation - in one and a half completed battlegrounds there have been zero traps set in our full diamond league competition.
None, nada, zilch.
I'm not surprised. We won't be seeing any when this change goes live. Traps are kryptonite to the farming model and, despite what a few players here have claimed, GBG has been about farming for over 2 years.
 

King Flush

Marquis
I really am impressed. You can discern all of this from the information that @blueskydwg provided. Wow!

I'll give you another scenario that is just as plausible. He is in a strong GBG guild but has a schedule that does not permit him to regularly participate in the 4-hour swap dance. Consequently, prior to the SC change, he was mostly limited to what we call "snacks" in my guild (low priority sectors in the outer rings that are FFA). These "snacks" are usually 1SC or 0SC. Now, because of the SC change, his guildmates attrition out before the end of the day leaving prime sectors still available.

Now, I don't know if my scenario is accurate, or not. That simply does not matter. What does matter is that he wants to get more battles and that is what is happening. For him, the SC change is having positive effects. My bet is that this is what INNO is interested in hearing.
so he might only be able to come on for a few mins and hit an open sector so therefore he might gain whilst the serious players all lose and the competition has gone... that's alright then sounds like a good plan (sarcasm)
 

King Flush

Marquis
In which language will it be necessary to tell you?

If the traps are set against the smaller guilds, it is because this nerf scares you and therefore you admit that the smaller guilds will not be as disadvantaged as you say.

If the traps are set against the big guilds, it means that the competition will finally begin and that there will be no more coordination between 2 guilds.

If the traps are set against everyone, you will slow yourself down and then you will suffer equal retaliations, everyone will lose. But not because of the nerve because of your mentality.
post nerf it will be more important to hold sectors rather than flip them traps are a way to achieve that, we'll see or hopefully we won't and whether traps are used or not it's still a terrible idea.
 
then I'm at a loss at how you are getting more fights maybe your guild is competitive but it's just simply you who doesn't try?

no desire to set a city up on Beta, don't have the time for that.
I looked at your guild on the EN server. 70 players. Some, like you, average over 5K fights weekly. Many, far, far fewer. Are they not trying? Or are they left on the sidelines because the big hitters are icing them out? My guess is the latter. The change to SCs will help them in the same way that it is helping players like @blueskydwg. IMO, this is the goal of the SC change.
 
so he might only be able to come on for a few mins and hit an open sector so therefore he might gain whilst the serious players all lose and the competition has gone... that's alright then sounds like a good plan (sarcasm)
Aw come on. Any player averaging 25K battles monthly is fully aware that GBG ain't about competition between guilds. It's about competition between guildmates (i.e. as long as I get mine I'm fine) and farming.
 
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