Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

[CrashBoom]

The Main reason weaker Guilds are locked in their base

is big players are bullys

They simply want to be disruptors and screw up the map for EVERYONE

how can weak guilds even screw up the map for guilds that can take a sector in minutes ?

It is much easier to contain them than to get them to cooperate.

it is much easier to be the ******* they are and do swaps with one other guild only and not letting other little bit room

With the change if it goes live, will be even worse on weaker players/Guilds.

it can't be worse for them than before the change

The current idea is not going to help anyone. It is certainly not going to help the Guilds that sit in their base and do not build camps. They will not even notice or benefit from capping SC attrition, which is shortsighted and taking the easy fix for INNO while handicapping everyone who fights.

there will be plenty of players who then can take their first sector when they want to fight because it is not blocked directly in the morning of day 1:
because top fighters won't waste their attrition so early on an outer sector

telling other it won't help anybody is just a big lie

 

[knarre sbeat]

I agree that something needs to change, but punishing EVERYONE because INNO doesn't want or know how to suppress cheaters, is unfair to everyone.
A better solution would be to limit fights to 500 VP per day. That would be acceptable to 95% of the crowd. The other 5% are just greedy pork and they are not going to agree to anything that hinders their 1000+ VP per day. Also, INNO has a responsibility to make map opponents more competitive and not match a strong fighting Guild with a bunch of weak Guilds that could not find the center if they were the only Guild on the map. There are too many non-attacking Guilds in Diamond. It should mean something or create a special group (Crystal?) that only has the top 20 competitors in it. Have 4 groups of 5 contestants each season. Rotate it around. If a diamond Guild proves itself strong and worthy, promote them and bounce the lowest performer in crystal.
Make it cut-throat competition among peers. IF they want to swap sectors and share prizes, that is no one else's business. No more complaining from weak Guilds about other Guilds/Players who prepare to fight and they could play much better with less powerful Guilds in their grouping.

The current idea is not going to help anyone. It is certainly not going to help the Guilds that sit in their base and do not build camps. They will not even notice or benefit from capping SC attrition, which is shortsighted and taking the easy fix for INNO while handicapping everyone who fights.
This will not balance anything. The whales will still find a way to get their points even if they have to write a negotiation script to do the same as the fight one does already.

The Main reason weaker Guilds are locked in their base, is because they usually have a history of being erratic, and cannot be trusted to work with the map. They simply want to be disruptors and screw up the map for EVERYONE. It is much easier to contain them than to get them to cooperate.
With the change if it goes live, will be even worse on weaker players/Guilds.

Whether INNO likes it or not, at the end of the day GBG is about winning resources such as goods, FP, slim diamonds, and a few units, etc.
If they want to take that away, it will drive away lot of the interest.

if you spell everyone with capital letters doesnt make it true. Since im not included it cant be everyone, right?
There could be plenty better solutions, but right now we only have this one.
There was plenty of time to suggest better solutions, time isnt finished now, but this thread is not the right place for it.
It should focus on feedback for the re balance and only for it.
If you have an idea how the GBG could be better, post it somewhere else.

You probably have a really good feeling how the new balance will hit GbG since you already paint a picture of your worst nightmare to come true.
FoE is not all about GbG. some people deny to play GbG at all.
Its just a game mode that gets fixed to be more fair to everyone, maybe a few players out of 20000 per server have to waive a few or alot fp.
It wont destroy the game. People will still buy diamonds, like they did before GbG was introduced.

 

[knarre sbeat]

That is the other problem for stronger Guilds.... they have to hold hands and direct the weaker Guilds to do the right actions that help them.
They do not mind helping the weaker Guilds, but now it is like back-stabbing to only go after the strong Guilds and not punish the weak Guilds for being inactive and not working hard to win.

id love to talk to you about what strong guilds really are, becouse what you call help is really called "need"/"greed".
You dont help them but you help yourself get more fights.
If you would wanna help them youd create a chessboard for every guild and everyone. weaker guilds get attrition free exchange sectors, strong guilds get the worst sectors to exchange.
That way everyone would get something out of it.
But here comes the bad part, 2 out of 6 guilds would had to give something up they would get if they just played together leaving the other 6 dust.
Guess what weve been seeing the last years.
Correct Strong guilds helping others, lol.........not.
sorry, that will be my last off topic post.

 

[HunZ95]

In any case, any changes may come, the small guilds will not be able to hold their own in the field of the top guilds.
GBG will still be a team game, even though the lone wolves of the small guilds jump in a few minutes , they can't do anything important on the GBG map,
they wait in vain for the developers to solve their problems, because they should do it.

 

[Demeter7]

We will need to see this change live for a few seasons to see if it rebalances things. That is the only way that we will know for certain.
Smaller guilds, guilds just starting out, or those who are not obsessed fanatics - we all want to have fun. We all want to fight in GBG. We don't want to be pushed to the side. We don't WANT to be on the same field as the big guilds. But it happens far too easily just for being an active guild. Something needs to be done so that everyone has a chance against guilds that are evenly matched.

Some on here keep saying that "weaker" guilds are complaining because we want to be like the big guilds, or that we think that we "deserve" to be out on the field with them. That is NOT true. And just because we do not want to be on the field with the big guilds does not mean that we are not active, or are not trying. We just want to have fun. Inno needs to fix things.

 

[PackCat]

Pericles the Lion said:
Good idea but don't we already know the answer to this (or did know at least)? For a long time, clear up to the time that INNO stopped matchmaking based on guild ID last year, players were complaining about the matchups and wanted them random based on LP. Maybe I'm mistaken

So, what is the balance for weaker Guilds who are not competitive? Why are only the good players handicapped.
What do the weaker Guilds have give up? If only that we would not have to see them on competitive maps wasting time would be a step in the right direction.

LP is not a good indicator. A VP hybrid would be much better. A Guild with 400K VP in a season would be much more competitive than one with 32K.

 

[mcbluefire]

can someone explain me a simple thing:
why are the strong guilds bullying the weak ones

let's take my GBG on live (diamond 1000 LP guilds)
one of the strong team directly captured half of the map at the start of the season
including the starting sectors of 3 other guilds

why are they such bullys and don't even let them that sector ?

such players just deserve the 66% cap

like the song says:
"What you deserve is what you get"


can't wait that this goes live
I hope in 2 weeks

Yeah, there is nothing worse than a guild getting 15 or more players together right at GbG start, pushing out of their home in a couple minutes (load-sharing attrition), then using diamonds to instant build SCs, rinse and repeat until they finally get to free hits, then taking all the free hit sectors they can while unopposed. Just awful of them. They deserve to have an entire season of 1 attrition for every 3 hits (which we all know will not typically fall that way due to RNG). What I don't understand is why they would stop with just half the map if unopposed...makes no sense to me.

Those other sleepy guilds who couldn't be bothered to show up at GbG start should have had silver platters with mints placed on their opening sectors by the guild that showed up on time. Technically they did as four hours later they were able to hit those sectors and move on out.

But now both sets of guilds will be hit with the 66.6% cap and thus activity will be reduced for all. The guild that got there on time with a plan and players to back it up will now save a lot of diamonds as there is no need to build more than 2 SCs for a sector based on the new math, if any at all. That's Inno showing those diamond spenders!

 

[mcbluefire]

Finally, something that I can agree with. Maybe, now that checkerboarding seems doomed, the guilds that have not been allowed to participate will come out to play. If so, it will be good for the game.

The problem is that it shouldn't take 2+yrs to realize the feature isn't being used as desired. I suppose no one would accuse Inno of "Agile" development, though. Yet again, likely a symptom of a communication filter between the players and the devs.

 

[PackCat]

Matchmaking was originally League > LP > Random. Inno changed it to League > LP > Guild ID. Once people noticed and complained (and started predicting matches exactly) they returned it to League > LP > Random

Get rid of random... the top 20 competitive Guilds play each other in a round-robin. 4 groups of 5 Guilds per season.
The top 5 Guilds (VP totals) would play each other the following season. and same for the next 3 groups of 5.
8 Guilds sharing a map is insane even for the non-fighting Guilds.

All seasons would be competitive without weaker Guilds in the way to whine about not getting a participation trophy.
For the weaker Guilds, they would not have their nightmare bullies to cry victim about. They would either have to learn to fight, or stop identifying everyone better than them as bullies.

 

[Demeter7]

Maybe this change will make it more challenging for everyone - in a good way. It will separate those who have real fighting power from those who coast by on low attrition. I don't know why the big guilds are afraid of this change. If they are all-powerful, then this should not bother them at all.

Every season when we are in Platinum or lower Diamond, most of the guilds are intentionally holding back because no one wants to finish in the top few. No one wants to move up to high Diamond. There is something strange about a game that results in players NOT wanting to be too successful. We should all be able to push and challenge ourselves, without knowing it will result in pushing us into a situation that we don't want to be in. These are very good guilds with active players. In alliance threads we all start discussing that... nooo we don't want center... nooo not taking any more sectors. No, we don't want to move into that hateful high Diamond.

Those on here who are saying that "weak" guilds don't want to fight are just wrong. Some of us just don't want to battle when the big guilds are on the field. We don't even want to be on that field. We are not inactive and we are not lazy. But apparently the reward for doing very well for a few seasons is spending the next season stuck in HQ.

 

[HunZ95]

. I don't know why the big guilds are afraid of this change. If they are all-powerful, then this should not bother them at all.

Because this is not balancing, it is simply a jab at everyone.
If the effectiveness of the camp decreases, why doesn't the price also decrease? Why do the other buildings remain the same?
Why does the percentage of the attrition penalty not change? It's completely unbalanced at higher levels and suits the current system better than change.
And so many more questions could be asked, but no answer is forthcoming. if balancing is the reason, then players rightly expect full work and not just a little push that doesn't even solve the core problem.

 

[Thunderdome]

Inno, do as for the arena with a discount of 10% between each GbG but remove this ceiling!

I would be on board with this one in a heartbeat. Make it an incentive for them to keep competing or be left in the dust.

it takes months to prepare for a swoop through several ages. once fully prepared you can do it right after the GBG round started. i did it from post modern era to future in one go. Fighting with hovertanks against post modern units was fun while it lasted

I might have to try that on my Colonial City on US Arvahall as I am sure I can get some FE troops for IndA (or PE) and is less costly. I have a few IA cities as well as an LMA city as well on the US server I sometimes play.

The Watchtower and Siege re-balance is neccessary imo, limiting fights per player opens oppertunitys for other players that wouldnt make the 3 minute window for a attrition free sector. Most of the times players left in my guild without the oppertunity to do even 1Fight with full attrition, becouse there are just no open sectors and if they open, you have 2-3 minutes max.
Really looking forward to see it change for the better.

Basically, GBg is a numbers game. The more you have active in a guild that can participate the faster a sector can be taken. If this cap is in place, it will slow a lot of players down because they play the 0 attrition game to not lose troops in fighting (see my other posts about this subject). The He-Mans and She-Ras will still keep on going but the small player would be left out after attaining 5 or even 10 attrition before they slam on the brakes to not put more units to the wringer.

I agree that something needs to change, but punishing EVERYONE because INNO doesn't want or know how to suppress cheaters, is unfair to everyone.
A better solution would be to limit fights to 500 VP per day. That would be acceptable to 95% of the crowd. The other 5% are just greedy pork and they are not going to agree to anything that hinders their 1000+ VP per day. Also, INNO has a responsibility to make map opponents more competitive and not match a strong fighting Guild with a bunch of weak Guilds that could not find the center if they were the only Guild on the map.

I would accept this as well knowing I can do many fights at no attrition increase; my guild can do the same.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Because this is not balancing, it is simply a jab at everyone.

It is not a jab at everyone. The percentage of players that will be impacted is small. Perhaps the top 15-20 fighters in the top 10 guilds on each world. Everybody else is fighting less than 200 battles per day anyway. I'm pretty sure that INNO knows this and modelled it.

 

[delfire1]

Punish the stronger guilds !!!! most of the stronger guilds have huge member numbers so even if all members get a couple of battles thats another sector taken small guilds with 6 or less wont get a sniff is closer to whats likely going to happen

 

[HunZ95]

It is not a jab at everyone. The percentage of players that will be impacted is small. Perhaps the top 15-20 fighters in the top 10 guilds on each world. Everybody else is fighting less than 200 battles per day anyway. I'm pretty sure that INNO knows this and modelled it.

if not directly with the change, but believe me it will be a punishment for everyone.

 

[DEADP00L]

but believe me it will be a punishment for everyone.

Not for the thousands of players who never had 4 or more camps.

 

[Beta King]

It is not a jab at everyone. The percentage of players that will be impacted is small. Perhaps the top 15-20 fighters in the top 10 guilds on each world. Everybody else is fighting less than 200 battles per day anyway. I'm pretty sure that INNO knows this and modelled it.

That is not very accurate, in my guild there are several young players that are still leveling their GBs from low levels that take advantage of the zero attrition fights to get a decent amount of FPs daily but soon they will be locked down to 15-20 atr and will now be looking at it taking far longer to get their GBs up once the nerf happens! I am so glad i was able to get all my fighting buildings up to 80+ and my arc to lvl 115 before this came but i do feel sorry for anyone that is at the bottom and planning on trying to build a city after this...

 

[Beta King]

Not for the thousands of players who never had 4 or more camps.

You may not believe it but the top guilds aren't just 80 whales clicking away. Most of the top guilds in my world have at least 10-15% young players that are getting free fights and will be hurt by this as well. They will not be punishing the "whales" nearly as bad as they will be punishing the lower players in the stronger guilds that are helping them.

 

[DEADP00L]

Most of the top guilds in my world have at least 10-15% young players

Tell me on which server and which world you play (and your name), I'll check what you call "young players".
Because I don't know of big GbG guilds with a lot of young players.

to get a decent amount of FPs daily

How much FP do you call "decent"?

I am so glad i was able to get all my fighting buildings up to 80+ and my arc to lvl 115 before this came but i do feel sorry for anyone that is at the bottom and planning on trying to build a city after this...

On my FR world, I'm not part of the big guilds, we are only 18, a small family yet my GMs are not so ridiculous without the GbGs:

Spoiler: List of GB

 

[Thunderdome]

You may not believe it but the top guilds aren't just 80 whales clicking away. Most of the top guilds in my world have at least 10-15% young players that are getting free fights and will be hurt by this as well. They will not be punishing the "whales" nearly as bad as they will be punishing the lower players in the stronger guilds that are helping them.

THIS!
This is what I had been saying. The He-Mans and She-Ras of the FoE world won't be affected as much as a player who is either starting out or trying to build up attacking power. Those who have level 80+ GBs and are seasoned players by doing events really don't care about the change as it won't affect them as much.

And... (for the others out there)...
What in the devil (I would have used an expletive in its place but the forum won't allow me) is "PF"? I know it's not Forge Points (FP) in terms of reading and sight, heh heh.