Owl II
Emperor
GBG devour me 2k or more diamonds a day in fighting seasons. But fighting seasons are very rare. There's just nothing to fight for
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Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance
- Thread starter Juber
- Start date
jovada
Regent
Woaw you really must be a great fighter if you can't take a sector with a trap in it in 10 days
Thunderdome
Emperor
All buildings should have gotten this rebalance to be tested. To only re-balance one type of building will leave others to be overpowered and misused. I have yet to hear of any guild using traps but I am sure they are since they probably will be making it hard for the others to take sectors.
This not only puts the bigger players at a halt to their farming activities but an even greater halt to the smaller players to grow as now they are limited to a small number of fights per day (which translates to a small amount of rewards daily) which they will find GBg boring and avoid it, thus hurting guilds that often depend on them.
So, why don't I propose this since you (Inno) want to change this mechanic:
Make it that attrition resets twice daily. You read that right. One at server reset time of midnight. The other at noon server time. This way, those who are engaging in GBg (including the small players) can have peace of mind to get more fights in to get the rewards. You can still have your fix of 66.6 for the attrition prevention as I am sure attrition will still rise even with this in effect.
In practice, a player starts with 0 attrition. They get 20 fights in before attrition rose up to 20. At noon, their attrition resets to 0. They get another 35 fights in for the same attrition of 20 due to a sector having SCs capped at 66.6%. They are out for the count until server reset.
Another player that is medium starts with 0 attrition. They get close to 100 fights for 45 attrition with a few SCs placed. At noon, their attrition resets to 0. They get another 40 fights in until they call it a day with close to 40 attrition. They, too, are out for the count until server reset.
At the end of the day, the players get around 55 and 140 fights respectfully as well whatever rewards they need to grow in their cities.
The reason I had said every 12 hours for attrition reset is because some may take advantage of being there both times while others might have enough time for just one. You cannot punish the ones who are dedicated to GBg and know how to play it well, whereas you cannot punish the medium to weaker players just because the larger players tend to get everything very easy within their reach.
This "one size fits all" methodology and mindset has to go.
Owl II
Emperor
That is, this vote will not have an impact on the decision regarding these changes? Just like you spit on any of our comments?
mfb.
Farmer
LOL "I know more people agree with me, but they're just busy right now. Trust me, they're out there though!"
Fenix
Viceroy
A colleague from my guild came to the conclusion that these changes make the boots irrelevant, it doesn't solve the problem of the boots, but it makes things much fairer for me (I didn't use them, now whoever uses them can't do more than me ). I had already voted yes, this one reinforced my opinion.
Petrus1942
Farmer
Wouldn't the simple solution to that be for Inno to cut the drop rate on diamonds in GbG if that's really the problem? On live I normally spend well more in diamonds than I gain if it's not a full swap session and maybe a little more than break even for full swaps because I'm in the #1 GbG guild on our server and we'd rather drop 50 diamonds to get the farming in than mess up swap times. In the competitive seasons seconds count so, yeah, we diamond camps plenty - particularly when the RNG goes against (it's amazing how often all 3 camps can disappear on a flip...). We do our best to spread the diamond cost around, but the leaders and biggest players (who are largely also the biggest spenders) take the lion's share of SC diamond costs.
PackCat
Marquis
FOE caused this themselves by taking away the ability to earn points by economy. There was a time when coins and supplies were worth something.
BUT... FOE did not want farmers, they wanted fighters, so they took it away, and even cut players points in half to re-balance!
Then they open a new game function and players began to fight.
They fight so much, that they realized it was better to create partnerships to trade sectors and earn even more fights.
FOE decided to call this farming, because FOE HATES farmers.
So, now we have a game where there will be no farmers and no one has an interest to fight.
Good Job INNO, you nailed it.
PackCat
Marquis
The both should be corrected to 75%
Mayhem Montana
Farmer
Instead of nerfing the siege camps and watchtowers, which is probably a horrendous financial decision (Have you ran this past the business people at Inno, who have likely experienced hockey-stick growth in diamond purchases since GbG began? My guess is this idea goes over like a fart in church.) - introduce the Militia Barracks and have it negate siege camps and watchtowers some how. Make this building cost a ton of goods. It adds another aspect to the strategy, your players keep spending, and if the smaller guilds (or groups who detest farmers) want to drop the Militia Barracks they can level the playing field with this new building.
Sticking with the current approach, I can tell you what we will do: Traps all day, every day, even more so than we already do. As a guild who cares more about winning than farming, we are happy to bring our map to a screeching halt and ruin the rewards for everyone because we know that without GbG - nobody will ever catch up with us in terms of strength. And if you nerf the traps/etc. to match the camps and towers, we will likely just start ignoring GbG, as the ranking system has made GvG more important, anyway. We can sleepwalk and stay in Diamond, which I know many of you understand.
Sticking with the current approach, I can tell you what we will do: Traps all day, every day, even more so than we already do. As a guild who cares more about winning than farming, we are happy to bring our map to a screeching halt and ruin the rewards for everyone because we know that without GbG - nobody will ever catch up with us in terms of strength. And if you nerf the traps/etc. to match the camps and towers, we will likely just start ignoring GbG, as the ranking system has made GvG more important, anyway. We can sleepwalk and stay in Diamond, which I know many of you understand.
HunZ95
Squire
This applies to small alliances. Currently, they need hours or even 1 day to occupy 1 sector. How long do you think they will need
if there will be a trap on it?
Less time than when the sector flips every 4 hours
I can push through traps slowly by myself - it's lockouts and needing to win races that keeps smaller guilds sewn in.Heck, one of the people I play with a lot, an enemy building a trap is motivation
HunZ95
Squire
So you say that negative comments and voting have no weight because assume a much more positive evaluation, just don’t it sound?
Under such assumptions, feedback topics are unnecessary.
mcbluefire
Baronet
I suppose nerfs are normally met with more negative than positive responses, but that is due to the nature of a nerf which is removing ability. Does no one in Inno find it concerning that word of this spreading on live servers has resulted in large page count in just a couple days on the beta forums? Dare I suggest that the dev sentiment will be "of course not."
Thanks for helping to clarify that concern over enjoyment of the game is viewed as complaining.
The announcement does NOT address the purpose of the changes. I can see that one would think "why" was answered as your announcement says, "you may ask why..." and then in summary "because attrition is needed to ensure long-term sustainability and viability of GbG." Unfortunately that is a deflection, not an answer of purpose. GbG was and is sustained and viable simply by the game having the feature, the servers remaining online, and players utilizing it, correct? The purpose of doing this nerf is hidden in what was meant by "GbG viability and sustainability."
- Some players are receiving too much FP from GbG?
- Some players are leveling up their GBs so fast that they dominate the game (not technically possible) and GbG is the cause?
- Some players are moving up in rankings too fast because they are setting timers and showing up to every sector unlock to get in as many hits as possible?
- Some players are running out of content in less than 2 years because they are focusing on GbG and this goes against the dev design that the game be played for x years before this happens?
- Some players are whining that FoE has became all about GbG and it's ruining their ability to compete in rankings this was originally an issue with GvG and nothing is changing there.
As was mentioned a few times in this thread, I'd love to believe this change, if ever implemented in live, would result in more city building, but I doubt many latter age, higher level players will do one thing to change their city as a result of the changes. City building is a function that is heavily engaged in the first ages and thanks to event buildings being more desired than age buildings city design/build becomes a low priority in latter ages.
Nothing is being done to make city building a priority, all that is happening is a hammer is coming down on free hits, but in a completely unbalanced fashion. Now there is no counter to traps and they will likely reign supreme until that is addressed a couple more years from now.
mcbluefire
Baronet
Less time than when the sector flips every 4 hours
Heck, one of the people I play with a lot, an enemy building a trap is motivation
Indeed, I can think of nothing more motivational than losing all my ability to fight on one sector! Go traps, go!!
It really makes me laugh all his threats of heavy hitters from the guilds who didn't care about the average guilds.
But yes, these guilds who hadn't asked for anything, who found themselves in the diamond league without having asked for anything and who were spectators for 2 weeks.
You didn't hear them or you didn't care.
Inno heard them and the complaint that came up most often was the endless fights without attrition.
So now that the greed of some of your players has been pointed out and curbed, would you like Inno to modify to your liking?
To start blocking guilds that don't claim your places or your earnings, but just play?
In addition, to read you, thousands of players will stop as soon as this happens on the direct servers. Cool, this will renew the blood on some worlds.
And I'm surprised that the current poll is not (if I base myself on your words) 99% NO!!!
But yes, these guilds who hadn't asked for anything, who found themselves in the diamond league without having asked for anything and who were spectators for 2 weeks.
You didn't hear them or you didn't care.
Inno heard them and the complaint that came up most often was the endless fights without attrition.
So now that the greed of some of your players has been pointed out and curbed, would you like Inno to modify to your liking?
To start blocking guilds that don't claim your places or your earnings, but just play?
In addition, to read you, thousands of players will stop as soon as this happens on the direct servers. Cool, this will renew the blood on some worlds.
And I'm surprised that the current poll is not (if I base myself on your words) 99% NO!!!
Always great to read how words are put into my mouth. Thanks.
But this is not what I was saying. I never said, that negative feedback does not matter. I just wanted to point out, that there will always be negative feedback, especially on "controversial" changes like this one. We already had this discussion in the Guild Perks and "Regarding recent feedback" posts.
King Flush
Marquis
I don't understand the whole farming thing really, in that it's looked at so negatively by some, a huge part of the game is about aquiring FP's (farming if you like) and GBG is not one of the more efficient ones even in it's present format. I know players who earn an obscene amount of FP's from sniping, they get these FP's with very minimal effort, should this be stopped too? My city currently gives me 700FP's a day on city collection I calculated had I not spent my time filling it with attack buildings but instead focussed on FP producers I could potentially be collecting about 1500 FP's a day for what just a few minutes to collect, so could we nerf that too? maybe we just give everyone in the game 100FP's a day and remove all other means of gaining FP's? (not a serious suggestion)
before Jovada pipes up again It's not all about the FP's but it's a bit like having a job you love, you are quite happy to be on a low wage as you like the job but you still expect to get payed, to carry on with this analogy this is like wanting to remove the fun part of your job and give you a paycut at the same time.
this is only to address the comments that say GBG needs to change to address an 'imbalance' that I just don't see. if anything out of City farming, sniping and GBG I'd say the rewards need to be greater in GBG to make time=FP's more balanced to the other two.
before Jovada pipes up again It's not all about the FP's but it's a bit like having a job you love, you are quite happy to be on a low wage as you like the job but you still expect to get payed, to carry on with this analogy this is like wanting to remove the fun part of your job and give you a paycut at the same time.
this is only to address the comments that say GBG needs to change to address an 'imbalance' that I just don't see. if anything out of City farming, sniping and GBG I'd say the rewards need to be greater in GBG to make time=FP's more balanced to the other two.
HunZ95
Squire
These are all complete contradictions.Less time than when the sector flips every 4 hours
Heck, one of the people I play with a lot, an enemy building a trap is motivation
Firstly, the GBG is a team game, a lone wolf has nothing to gain here, and secondly, the complaints of the smaller ones relate to the competitive situation, but how do they solve the 232 demoralization to stay competitive? And I'm still only talking about 1 sector.