Rejected [Suggestion] Improvements for the market

[vesgouo]

The MARKET needs an urgent revision.
I'm teaching the game to several friends and people of different ages.
They all suffer enough to understand the functioning of the market and what goods are of which age.
It is not clearly indicated.

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Another very common problem is not knowing the "SIZE" of the offer I have to make.
Should I make several offers of 5x5? Or should I make 4 of 50x50? Or should I just make one offer of 200x200?
I know how much I want to trade, but you never know what the other's need is.
It could be changed the market system so that it could be accepted offers PARTIALLY.
If I have 10000 "X" left, and I need "Y", I can put the 10000 "X" offer for 10000 "Y" in the market, and anyone interested in picking up on that offer just types in how much to exchange and negotiate. The rest of the offer remains in the market for other interested to pick up.
This would avoid the repetitive and extremely annoying work of having to make hundreds of pages of offers on the market.

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And, to conclude, I would like to say that the market should be "GLOBAL" not just for friends / neighbors / guild.
(But this is for another topic...)

 

[DeletedUser7959]

Does anybody ever make a "guild" offers? This option is useless. If you create the offer because (!) you need some goods, then doesn't matter who will accept it. The only way it could be useful if you have 100500 goods and want to help your small and lovely guild, avoiding friends/NBs that can accept it. But tbh I've never seen that before.

Speaking about "the size". New players usually create the offers with those amount of goods that they need (for tech./negotiations etc.). Later, when they will scroll market list a bit, they start to make 50/100/200 offers because in some case they are worth 1FP (50 mostly for low era players).
Personally, I don't see any problems with the offers size.

 

[LadyHecate]

I've seen this work in other games; although I cannot recall which they were! In principle I like the idea but the Market AI would need to be able to calculate trading rations when the simple 1:2, 1:1, or 2:1 rations were not used. e.g. if I was offering 50 of a CE good in exchange for 94 of a PME good, and a potential buyer only wanted 5 of my CE goods, would they be charged 9 or 10 PME goods? I would suggest that all fractions in this case would need to be rounded up which could work to the advantage of the seller, i.e. I could end up with more than the 94 PME goods originally requested.

 

[DeletedUser8341]

I think the market is, in many ways, superior in the app. It misses one vital piece of information: the name of the seller.

For those with no access to the app, this is what pops up when you want to filter by a good (sic) or select which goods to trade:

Spoiler

(For mouse usage, imagine a slider on the right of the window; it is unnecessary on touch-screen.)

No question of which age goods are in, with quantities clear and easy.

 

[DeletedUser8341]

Does anybody ever make a "guild" offers? This option is useless. If you create the offer because (!) you need some goods, then doesn't matter who will accept it. The only way it could be useful if you have 100500 goods and want to help your small and lovely guild, avoiding friends/NBs that can accept it. But tbh I've never seen that before.

I will often set up guild trades which I do not want outsiders taking advantage of. I consider it a great shortcoming that there is no filter for trades put on as 'guild only'. If there were such a filter, I think many guilds that currently have a policy that NO trades that they do not approve of would be able to allow for open trading outside the guild and whatever scheme (typically their idea of 'fair' trading) must operate with other guild members.

For some time, I only ever played on the app (and still do so 99% of the time). I found it very difficult to understand the way that 'standard' players did things on trading. Some of it is subtle but some of it, like being able to see the age of goods, is fairly clear.

 

[DeletedUser7951]

I've played games where one could buy parts of an offer, the result is a lot of "left over bids" that very few players want due to too small number. no one wants to buy 5 x 5 purified water when they need 25. I much rather see I as a buyer don't have to pay 1FP for every offer just cos some "considerate" person decided to put up a lot of tiny offers when I would want one big one. Talking here about exact same offers from same players.

and I totally agree with Prinza, the market on the app is much better. Browser should have the same feature.

 

[vesgouo]

no one wants to buy 5 x 5 purified water when they need 25. I much rather see I as a buyer don't have to pay 1FP for every offer just cos some "considerate" person decided to put up a lot of tiny offers when I would want one big one.

No one wants to buy 25 x 25 purified water when they need 500.

So... What is the ideal size to offer?

With the idea of being able to partially pick up an offer, this problem would end.

I can put my 5000 purified water to trade on market and just wait.

It is better for me
and better for those who need the good, because they can pick the exactly wanted amount

______________________________________________________________________________

And I go further on the idea:

Better than that, it would be able to offer:

My 5000 purified water
by:
[Biolight] or [Corals] or [Pearls]

(The offer could be taken in any quantity for any of the goods.)


But I think it's dreaming to high ...

 

[DeletedUser7378]

No one wants to buy 25 x 25 purified water when they need 500.

So... What is the ideal size to offer?

With the idea of being able to partially pick up an offer, this problem would end.

I can put my 5000 purified water to trade on market and just wait.

It is better for me
and better for those who need the good, because they can pick the exactly wanted amount

______________________________________________________________________________

And I go further on the idea:

Better than that, it would be able to offer:

My 5000 purified water
by:
[Biolight] or [Corals] or [Pearls]

(The offer could be taken in any quantity for any of the goods.)


But I think it's dreaming to high ...

Brilliant. You offer a rate and a limit, like Wall Street.

 

[DeletedUser8931]

I would really like a way of showing fair and unfair trades like the * system used in elvenar

 

[DeletedUser8859]

I would really like a way of showing fair and unfair trades like the * system used in elvenar

Please describe here how it is done at Elvenar, not all play or know that other game.

 

[DeletedUser8931]

Please describe here how it is done at Elvenar, not all play or know that other game.

It's really easy - each trade is given a * rating - 1* is an unfair trade, 2* is a fair trade and 3* is generous to the seller so you can see at a glance which trades to take. If you are desperate, you may pick up 1* trades while 3* trades get snapped up really quickly

 

[dolphin]

each trade is given a * rating - 1* is an unfair trade

And the definition of a fair trade is the calculator of course! Real easy....

 

[DeletedUser8859]

And the definition of a fair trade is the calculator of course! Real easy....

Here the eternal debate starts... the calculator...

 

[DeletedUser7942]

It's really easy - each trade is given a * rating - 1* is an unfair trade, 2* is a fair trade and 3* is generous to the seller so you can see at a glance which trades to take. If you are desperate, you may pick up 1* trades while 3* trades get snapped up really quickly

I forget what the ages are called there, are they called ages? Anyway, I just had a bit of a look back now at the trade system and it appears to me all the Star rating system is accounting for is the ratio not so different than the Rate number you see on FoE which is between .5 to 2. But it appears to me they took it one step further and also controlled for trading up and down ages. So in FoE you can trade BA for any age on up and keep the same rates but on Elvenar they control the rates trading across ages.

Now just from looking at the first three ages, as far as I advanced, the goods look like this:

1st Age
Marble: 61 420 (6.8ea) coins 42 supplies (.7ea)
Steel: 12 240 (20ea) coins 24 supplies (2ea)
Planks: 6 120 (20ea) coins 12 supplies (2ea)

2nd Age
Crystal: 49 1440 (29ea) 144(2.9ea)
Silk: 27 2160 (80ea) 216 (8ea)
Scroll: 27 2160 (80ea) 216 (8ea)

3rd Age
Gems: 49 5760(117ea) 576(11ea)
Elixir: 18 5760(320ea) 576(32ea)
Magic Dust: 18 5760(320ea) 576(32ea)

Strange, on the face of it, how in each age there's one cheaper to produce good than the other two goods of that age. And no matter the age, from what I can see, trading within that age is all the same Star rating so even though Marble is cheaper to produce you can trade it for an equal amount of Steel or Planks. The Star Rating is fixed to ratio so if I offer 100 Marble I can ask for anywhere between 25 to 98 Steel and it will have a 3 Star rating. That's a pretty wide ratio they set there for a single rating. I mean if you wanted a 3 star on your trade why would you ever trade for lower than 98 there? It's the same rating for you to get 25, yikes.

It seems pretty much the same story for trading across ages except like I mentioned they control the rates for that unlike FoE. So for the same 100 Marble that you're trading the 3 Star is between 7 to 23 goods one age up. And so again if I'm trading 100 goods up one age and want 3 Stars it's obvious I would always ask for 23 not anything less.

So I would not like that same system here on FoE at all. I mean I can appreciate those looking for "fairness" in trading but really, I prefer a freer market and just let people decide what they find to be fair. All that system above promotes is maximizing to the lowest/highest ratio to achieve 3 Stars. I mean if let's say any age good is a lot easier, quicker and cheaper to make then I'm only making that and trading as little of it as possible for the most amount of the other goods in that age at the maximum rate, eesh.

 

[DeletedUser8859]

It's really easy - each trade is given a * rating - 1* is an unfair trade, 2* is a fair trade and 3* is generous to the seller so you can see at a glance which trades to take. If you are desperate, you may pick up 1* trades while 3* trades get snapped up really quickly

So, if I understand correctly:

Same Age/Era

• 5 Marble offered x 10 Wine Needed Rate 1:2 would get 1* (unfair) rating
• 5 Marble offered x 5 Wine Needed Rate 1:1 would get 2* (fair) rating
• 10 Marble offered x 5 Wine Needed Rate 2:1 would get 3* (generous) rating

Below /Above Age/Era

• 5 Marble Offered x 5 Cloth Needed Rate 1:1 would get a 1* (unfair) rating
• 10 Marble offered x 5 Cloth Needed Rate 2:1 would get a 2* (fair) rating
• 5 Cloth Offered x 10 Marble Needed Rate 1:2 would get a 2* (fair) rating
• 5 Cloth offered x 5 Marble Needed Rate 1:1 would get a 3* (generous) rating

More than two (2) Age/Era apart

• Marble offered x Gasoline Needed, obviously part of a Good x FP deal, in any quantities valid to comply by FOE rate limits from 1:2 to 2:1, would get a 1* (unfair) rating.

Please confirm.

 

[DeletedUser7942]

Marble offered x Gasoline Needed, obviously part of a Good x FP deal, in any quantities valid to comply by FOE rate limits from 1:2 to 2:1, would get a 1* (unfair) rating.

That's one thing that's alway bothered me about FoE trading, is you can't make a "fair" trade past one age ahead. But regarding the topic at hand as I expressed above the Star rating is rather subjected to really only one type of trading which is the minimum amount needed to achieve the 3 stars, so I wouldn't offer 1:1 across age I would offer whatever the lowest amount is to keep 3 stars. What you're doing is simply taking the "fair" trade standard guilds apply as a mandate and giving it the star rating which is not exactly how the star rating works on Elvenar.

 

[DeletedUser8859]

True, in a Marble x Gasoline trade if part of a FP x Goods deal, the FPs negotiated are the ones balancing the fairness of the deals, the goods part will be always favoring the taker not matter if the qty is say 100 Marble x 200 Gasoline to take advantage of the rate limit of 1:2.

But, if not modifying the allowed rates (1:2 up to 2:1), how else a * rating would work in FOE?
(that is without entering in the equation Ages/Eras where some expect a 3:2 or 2:3, others argue if size of Goods buildings should be considered in goods value, or if happiness bonus or costs should also be inserted in goods value).