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Rejected [Suggestion] - Exclude Guild selection in Market

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Keritan

Squire
Just as title says, add a selection that would make trades you are putting up to NOT show in your Guild.

Right now we have Guild only or Everyone. Many guilds are fair trade and don't want to see members doing unfair trades. While this is nice and helpful for younger members or newbies, there is a component of the game that can be fun to work if you have the mind for it. Fleecing your neighbors and Friends List peeps on trades. Err, I mean using Supply and Demand economics to make a killing in trading.

Any thoughts?
 
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DeletedUser8341

Guest
... I'm sure some Guilds may still impose their strict "fair trade" rules on members to make their own lives easier)
It's not just about making their lives easier. The way to convince people that 1:2 is automatically a "fair" trade is to point to the cost of the goods as you go through the early ages. However, as you go through the ages it is easier to earn the coins and supplies used to purchase these goods. Not only that, when you get beyond the first few ages, the goods don't even cost twice as much anyway!

Imposing a system where you tie people into buying (your) advanced-age goods at a premium is a way for players who have been playing for some time to abuse players at lower ages. It is a deliberately unfair system to leech from the newbies.
 

DeletedUser7239

Guest
It's not just about making their lives easier. The way to convince people that 1:2 is automatically a "fair" trade is to point to the cost of the goods as you go through the early ages. However, as you go through the ages it is easier to earn the coins and supplies used to purchase these goods. Not only that, when you get beyond the first few ages, the goods don't even cost twice as much anyway!

Imposing a system where you tie people into buying (your) advanced-age goods at a premium is a way for players who have been playing for some time to abuse players at lower ages. It is a deliberately unfair system to leech from the newbies.

Lower ages players are not forced to trade if they do not want, right? now if some want an innovation tower or a arc MA, they must pay for it, right?
 

DeletedUser8341

Guest
Lower ages players are not forced to trade if they do not want, right? now if some want an innovation tower or a arc MA, they must pay for it, right?
Lower age players are convinced of the advantages of a guild by the game itself. Then they are told - by people they rely on for guidance and whom put themselves in positions of 'authority' - that this is the way they should play the game. I've been through this on three worlds and coming from a commercial background saw through the attempts to force me to sell cheap (or lose the advantages of the guild). Most people can't have that kind of realisation and tenacity, expecially when playing a game.
 

DeletedUser7239

Guest
Lower age players are convinced of the advantages of a guild by the game itself. Then they are told - by people they rely on for guidance and whom put themselves in positions of 'authority' - that this is the way they should play the game. I've been through this on three worlds and coming from a commercial background saw through the attempts to force me to sell cheap (or lose the advantages of the guild). Most people can't have that kind of realisation and tenacity, expecially when playing a game.

If they force and you do not want..say no, simple.
 

DeletedUser8471

Guest
It's not just about making their lives easier. The way to convince people that 1:2 is automatically a "fair" trade is to point to the cost of the goods as you go through the early ages. However, as you go through the ages it is easier to earn the coins and supplies used to purchase these goods. Not only that, when you get beyond the first few ages, the goods don't even cost twice as much anyway!

I agree with this to a point yes, that is what most players will use to judge the cost of goods for trades. However, Good Producing buildings are not all equal in size and have a tendency for some deposits to be rarer (by design I do not know, but this seems to be the case). Therefore what they consider "fair" is only based on initial cost to produce, but does not factor in the space used on said building or the fact that more players need a specific good.

Like I used with the Stone/BA goods example, Stone production building uses 16 squares, while the rest use 9. I am more easily able to fit more of the 4 others into my limited space provided, allowing me to have a surplus in these goods. But for those that may have Stone as a deposit, it will take up more space allowing them to produce less in the same time period. To me that would mean Stone is more of a premium good and should hold more weight than the others. The same can be said for any other age or era because not every building in each age has the same size or dimensions (correct me if I'm wrong), and the deposits themselves might be scarcer for some players than others, depending on the different Hood lists, Guild members, or friends they have.

The cost is what is generally accepted to be the factor in determining the trade ratios in the calculators and what Guilds dictacte to be fair, but as I pointed out the supply and demand of goods can vary from player to player. Thus making it harder for some to obtain certain goods without posting trades that may go against the normal cost ratios that most Guilds will impose upon members (and I believe SloppyJoe has a thread dedicated to just that)


QUOTE="Prinza the Hunter, post: 53009, member: 8341"]Imposing a system where you tie people into buying (your) advanced-age goods at a premium is a way for players who have been playing for some time to abuse players at lower ages. It is a deliberately unfair system to leech from the newbies.[/QUOTE]

How is this an unfair system? The player purchasing the goods has all the resources made available to them to determine whether or not they wish to go through with the trade. It is up to them to research the overall cost of these goods and determine for themselves if said trade can be considered "fair" or not.

For example, I recently began trading my own goods to a newer player at a cheaper rate then they normally would find on the market because of trade restrictions imposed by our Guild (and the majority of all other Guilds). I ask him to place trades at a 1BA:2IA ratio. I am losing out on goods this way, but I am doing so to help this player be able to advance faster and try to catch up with the other members of our Guild. I am not being greedy in anyway. He had asked me if there was anything he could do to help me in return, and after about the 4th time of asking I finally said he could donate fps to my GBs if he really wanted to "pay me back". I didn't dictate he had to do this, I never said "donate X fps before I will accept your trade", it was all a suggestion. However, I did made sure that I would not level the same GB he would donate to, so as to let him reach a point where he could have rewards. I instructed him to only use hourly fps and to not spend any fp packs on my buildings that he may have earned. Sure this is helping me level my buildings, but he is also earning prints and packs and medals in the process. I have been helping him watch for good deals on prints and offer advice on which player's buildings would allow him to receive the best results. When he reaches the point he can build his GB I am going to offer him a 1BA:2HMA ratio (and possibly a second round of 1HMA:2HMA ratio) it will be even cheaper for him to build. To make sure neither of us get yelled at by our leaders, I have to instruct him to post the trades when we are both around so that I can take the trades directly. If we could have the options I listed this would be a lot easier to do because he could post them whenever and I can come on later than him and accept them, without the fear of being reprimanded by our leaders.



I know I rambled a lot, but my point is that not all players that want to use this system are going to be abusing newer players. There are those of that want to be helpful as well, and this would make things easier for everyone involved. It will ultimately be up to a player to decide if any trade will be considered "fair" to them, based on their individual Goods Market, because frankly my market and your market are going to be different, so what may be considered "fair" to me will not be considered "fair" to you.
 

DeletedUser8341

Guest
If they force and you do not want..say no, simple.

Imposing a system where you tie people into buying (your) advanced-age goods at a premium is a way for players who have been playing for some time to abuse players at lower ages. It is a deliberately unfair system to leech from the newbies.

How is this an unfair system? The player purchasing the goods has all the resources made available to them to determine whether or not they wish to go through with the trade. It is up to them to research the overall cost of these goods and determine for themselves if said trade can be considered "fair" or not.
A game that encourages players into certain actions (join a guild) within which they will then be instructed that the goods they produce are only worth half of the goods of the next age is a rigged system that enables more established players to take advantage of the production of more youthful players (and that 'youthful' can even be applied to the player's age, as well as the age of their city).

If the game said to players "try to find a guild but be warned: there are many guilds that will pretend to help but will be taking advantage of you" and if the game did not have anything in itself about a 2:1 ratio (or, for that matter, a 1:1 ratio), then matters could be improved. As it is, the game encourages guild membership and encourages the concept that all goods of the same age are equal (obviously not true, as can be seen by things like the shortages of stone and the glut of rope) and that they are only worth half of any of the next age's goods. It is player abuse.

Your own personal anecdote of bucking this trend is irrelevant.
 
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DeletedUser7239

Guest
A game that encourages players into certain actions (join a guild) within which they will then be instructed that the goods they produce are only worth half of the goods of the next age is a rigged system that enables more established players to take advantage of the production of more youthful players (and that 'youthful' can even be applied to the player's age, as well as the age of their city).

If the game said to players "try to find a guild but be warned: there are many guilds that will pretend to help but will be taking advantage of you" and if the game did not have anything in itself about a 2:1 ratio (or, for that matter, a 1:1 ratio), then matters could be improved. As it is, the game encourages guild membership and encourages the concept that all goods of the same age are equal (obviously not true, as can be seen by things like the shortages of stone and the glut of rope) and that they are only worth half of any of the next age's goods. It is player abuse.

Your own personal anecdote of bucking this trend is irrelevant.

I do believe that your way of thinking regarding this matter is "anecdote", not the other way around..players are free to do whatever ratio they wish to do, no one is forced, so stop to treat players like they were some rtd´s.
 

DeletedUser8471

Guest
I do believe that your way of thinking regarding this matter is "anecdote", not the other way around..players are free to do whatever ratio they wish to do, no one is forced, so stop to treat players like they were some rtd´s.

That's what I'm trying to say.

Every player has to make their own decision upon placing or accepting any trade on the market. Not a single other player can actually force them to do.

What they can do is try to influence their decision, but ultimately it becomes a matter of choice. The choice to influence the other players decisions and the choice of the player to actually be influenced by them. Repercussions would be to boot them from the guild. That's it. And every server has a long list of Guilds to join, and can find one that is more friendly and helpful to newer players, and not take advantage of them.


I'm not saying it's right of those players to treat a new player in such a way. I'm saying it is up to each player to make the decision of whether they want to be influenced or not. Some people want to be influenced and told what to do, while others would rather make their own decisions. But that comes down to personal preference.



Some players are going to try to abuse the feature, but others are going to make the best of it and help out.


I am not suggesting that the actual cap on trade ratios be removed or changed from a max value rate of 1:2/2:1. I would just like to see features added to hide certain trades from our Guild list like we can from our Hood and Friend lists. I don't see why it cannot work both ways.
 

DeletedUser7239

Guest
That's what I'm trying to say.

Every player has to make their own decision upon placing or accepting any trade on the market. Not a single other player can actually force them to do.

What they can do is try to influence their decision, but ultimately it becomes a matter of choice. The choice to influence the other players decisions and the choice of the player to actually be influenced by them. Repercussions would be to boot them from the guild. That's it. And every server has a long list of Guilds to join, and can find one that is more friendly and helpful to newer players, and not take advantage of them.


I'm not saying it's right of those players to treat a new player in such a way. I'm saying it is up to each player to make the decision of whether they want to be influenced or not. Some people want to be influenced and told what to do, while others would rather make their own decisions. But that comes down to personal preference.



Some players are going to try to abuse the feature, but others are going to make the best of it and help out.


I am not suggesting that the actual cap on trade ratios be removed or changed from a max value rate of 1:2/2:1. I would just like to see features added to hide certain trades from our Guild list like we can from our Hood and Friend lists. I don't see why it cannot work both ways.

I agree with you, but lately i get surprised by some players opinions lol
 
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