Discussion Decrease in diamonds, ways to pay diamonds, and increase in monetary payments

[-ScytheNinjarite-]

Is FoE a dying game that InnoGames is attempting to milk for all they can? I'll admit that I hadn't given up on the game in early 2021 when Innogames did away with wising wells as daily specials. I figured there were still plenty of ways to earn diamonds for free and that wishing well farms were probably costing InnoGames too much money to be reasonable. But once they required $16 for the event pass, I started to lose hope.

Now that they've nerfed diamond farms with GE5, I'm worried that InnoGames will completely remove the ability to be competitive in this game for free, especially for new players. Does anyone see a possible world where InnoGames reverses course? Is this game guaranteed to follow the course of other mobile games where only players who spend hundreds of dollars each year can be successful?

I've played InnoGames games since 2012 when I started playing Grepolis and the recent updates have really tarnished their reputation in my opinion. Why continue to play this game that will soon require a large investment to be competitive when I can pay a fraction of that to enjoy pc games? Especially when the initial investment to get into pc gaming is lower than ever. And what is special about this game as a mobile game when there are thousands of other mobile games with the same monetary requirements?

 

[outoftheline]

If you've played this long you know that there used to be less ways to get diamonds for free.
The best way to earn them was when the summer event had diamonds on the wheel (thats when I started my first two "diamond worlds"), but that got fixed quite early.
Of course, building wishing well worlds was an option for a really long time, but the amount of possible worlds on the larger communities also grew over time.
Decreasing FoY and Expeditions diamond rewards makes sense from their point of view.
It has always taken too long for Inno to fix balancing issues of any kind.

The only things I am worried about for now is the golden upgrade thing and "event pass for cash only" thing... and what the next GBG changes are.

 

[DEADP00L]

Personally I prefer Inno to remove or severely restrict free diamonds for 2 reasons:
- it is normal that those who pay have advantages, especially since these are only time savings, no predominant advantage that the free player cannot obtain.
- it is better that Inno earns money with the diamonds henceforth paying that the game is stopped for lack of return in the next 6 months.

The only thing left is that without earning free diamonds and without buying any, it is still possible to have fun on a game that has (until proven otherwise) no real competitor.

 

[-ScytheNinjarite-]

If you've played this long you know that there used to be less ways to get diamonds for free.
The best way to earn them was when the summer event had diamonds on the wheel (thats when I started my first two "diamond worlds"), but that got fixed quite early.
Of course, building wishing well worlds was an option for a really long time, but the amount of possible worlds on the larger communities also grew over time.
Decreasing FoY and Expeditions diamond rewards makes sense from their point of view.
It has always taken too long for Inno to fix balancing issues of any kind.

The only things I am worried about for now is the golden upgrade thing and "event pass for cash only" thing... and what the next GBG changes are.

I played most of 2014 and 2015, late 2020 to early 2021, and mid 2021 until now. Early on there were few ways to make free diamonds, but also very few ways to spend diamonds or money for a significant advantage. In the middle, it was easy to get diamonds from wishing wells in events and there were lots of ways to spend diamonds or money. Now there are once again few ways to earn free diamonds and fewer ways to spend diamonds, but many ways to spend actual money instead of diamonds.

Personally I prefer Inno to remove or severely restrict free diamonds for 2 reasons:
- it is normal that those who pay have advantages, especially since these are only time savings, no predominant advantage that the free player cannot obtain.
- it is better that Inno earns money with the diamonds henceforth paying that the game is stopped for lack of return in the next 6 months.

The only thing left is that without earning free diamonds and without buying any, it is still possible to have fun on a game that has (until proven otherwise) no real competitor.

I don't mind there being advantages for players who spend money, but InnoGames is taking it to an extreme. They are locking buildings behind a paywall when previously everyone was able to obtain all event buildings without paying money. And they're making diamonds very difficult to obtain without spending a ridiculous amount of time. A few years ago, it was much easier to obtain diamonds for free. I do agree that that was probably excessive, but they have gone too far now.

Your second point is ridiculous. InnoGames is still making plenty of money. There is no possibility that they would shut down servers for Forge of Empires. They have multiple games with far fewer players and less aggressive monetization practices that are still running.

It is possible to have a fun game, but it is becoming farm more difficult to stay competitive. FoE is a social game played against other players. You can have fun in any free to play game for free, but that doesn't mean you can be competitive. I never said you couldn't have fun, just that it was getting more difficult to be competitive without spending real money.

A couple years ago, I'd have been willing to spend a bit of money on FoE each year (maybe $50-200) to supplement my free diamonds. Now I am debating leaving the game entirely. I have seen many other top players leave in the past year as well.

 

[outoftheline]

It is possible to have a fun game, but it is becoming farm more difficult to stay competitive. FoE is a social game played against other players. You can have fun in any free to play game for free, but that doesn't mean you can be competitive. I never said you couldn't have fun, just that it was getting more difficult to be competitive without spending real money.

What do you mean by competitive? From what you said, you played the game three times? Did you always start from scratch in new worlds?

I've playeed for a long time now and got as far as 40something in my worlds ranking back in 2018, but am slowly falling since the GBG farm fest got introduced.
So, I kinda get what you mean by competitive, but then again, I don't because getting ahead is still doable with a good guild and (too much) time.

And for now my city is fine and the recent changes do not change that much for my gameplay.

 

[zookeepers]

I am saying the same thing elsewhere but I would repeat it here too.
I think cutting free diamonds is fine. But doing so do not effect the diamonds that big players have already piled up,
nor the vast diamonds farms they run.

I believe, it is better rather to enlarge chance of diamonds earned by free,
but meanwhile, increase the price of event buildings sold by diamonds gradually.
Economically, this will prompt use of diamonds, rather than stocking them for future use.

Another point is that growing cities require expansions.
Expansions can cost diamonds, but those should be earned free eventually.
SAJM had too many diamond expansions relative to free ones, and if Inno continues this trend,
cutting free diamond gain would not result in favor of them.

 

[Dessire]

Almost all the answers here are so ..ugghh!!!

Do you know how a realy good free to play mmo should be?

You should look for the mmoarpg named "Path of Exile" a game which defetead Diablo III in all aspects! Graphics, levels, gameplay, mechanics, design, skills, enemies etc. 100% F2P with no P2W content and it was able to earn a looooot of money only by selling cosmetics!

Devs of that game have been put an effor to always bring amazing content, expansions, new zones, new enemies, etc. Etc. For free! An players obviously know how to appreciate that! And what they do to show how much they appreciate that effort is by buying skins/cosmetics for their armors, weapons, and characters!

Online games with P2W content only tends to get killed by the hate of almost all players to the company behind the game because players know thar being greed is one of the worst thing you can be when you manage a videogame.

Cosmetics for your townhall, for almost any building, for your profile, for the terrain arround your citie, etc. There are plenty of content to create cosmetics and sell them for real cash or diamonds and you are here giving just ridiculous answers about how is good have reduced amount of free diamonds in GE or how is good for Inno sell sometime P2W content. . Pfff!!! Learn how a successful online videogame became successful by searching them and looking for how those game earn money and the love of their players!

 

[CrashBoom]

Almost all the answers here are so ..ugghh!!!

Do you know how a realy good free to play mmo should be?

You should look for the mmoarpg named "Path of Exile" a game which defetead Diablo III in all aspects! Graphics, levels, gameplay, mechanics, design, skills, enemies etc. 100% F2P with no P2W content and it was able to earn a looooot of money only by selling cosmetics!

Devs of that game have been put an effor to always bring amazing content, expansions, new zones, new enemies, etc. Etc. For free! An players obviously know how to appreciate that! And what they do to show how much they appreciate that effort is by buying skins/cosmetics for their armors, weapons, and characters!

Online games with P2W content only tends to get killed by the hate of almost all players to the company behind the game because players know thar being greed is one of the worst thing you can be when you manage a videogame.

Cosmetics for your townhall, for almost any building, for your profile, for the terrain arround your citie, etc. There are plenty of content to create cosmetics and sell them for real cash or diamonds and you are here giving just ridiculous answers about how is good have reduced amount of free diamonds in GE or how is good for Inno sell sometime P2W content. . Pfff!!! Learn how a successful online videogame became successful by searching them and looking for how those game earn money and the love of their players!

so in short (applied on FoE):

only free diamonds (more)
no more selling diamonds

and people with a level 180 Arc can buy the golden Arc skin

 

[-ScytheNinjarite-]

What do you mean by competitive? From what you said, you played the game three times? Did you always start from scratch in new worlds?

I've playeed for a long time now and got as far as 40something in my worlds ranking back in 2018, but am slowly falling since the GBG farm fest got introduced.
So, I kinda get what you mean by competitive, but then again, I don't because getting ahead is still doable with a good guild and (too much) time.

And for now my city is fine and the recent changes do not change that much for my gameplay.

My main world has been the same the whole time. Idk why, but it wasn't deleted. I guess I logged in often enough.

On my main world (East Nagach - username Tannerite2) I was top 300 in 2014 and I'm currently top 50. You can check my city and see my gold award for proof of how long I've been playing. It was awarded when they changed the points system sometime in late 2014 or early 2015.

It's definitely doable to be competitive without spending money. My point is that it's becoming harder and harder to do it without spending actual money. One of the main reasons I've come back to FoE multiple times/stuck with the game is because it was possible for new players to be competitive without spending money.

My city is also fine currently. I have plenty of attack boost. I can confidently say I'm a top 5 fastest fighter in GBG on my world. But I can see the writing on the wall. I can't keep up with the event buildings the players who pay money for the game are getting. I never could, but now, I literally am not able to get the buildings that the players who spend money are able to get.

New discussion point, not responding to outoftheline

I started this thread because I was disappointed in the way FoE is moving. I can see the writing on the wall. The game definitely isn't ruined or anything yet. but with the way they're moving, it's difficult for me to continue to play this game. If they just maintain the current elements of events, then I won't be able to keep up in 12-18 months. If they continue to increase the pay to win aspects like they've done in the past year, then I might not be able to keep up in the next 6 months. Why should I spend my time on a game that I won't be competitive in soon? I was willing to spend a bit of money (like I said, $50-$200 a year) to support the developers of a great game, but I'm not willing to spend hundreds each year just to stay competitive. Especially when each new age is a ctrl+c ctrl+v of the previous age.

 

[Shalimar the Brave]

I deleted the mobile app today because of the ads. I'm still playing on browser (for now), but not sure how much longer I will do that anymore either. The game isn't fun for me anymore. The only reason I'm still here is because of the friends I have made playing this game.

 

[Dursland]

I would have hoped Inno had learned their lesson from Grepolis - the consequences of overmonetizing the game and ignoring negative feedback.

The negative feedback of GE5 and the ads is reminiscent of the negative feedback regarding the changes to Grepolis' golding/gold trading system. Inno absolutely ignored all complaints there as well and did not address any feedback in any way whatsoever.

Now Grepolis has gone from MMO of the year in 2012 with 20,000+ players per server to about 400 per server today.

I see a similar future for FoE, and the fact that they haven't released a statement or made any kind of change regarding the ads or ge5 by now speaks volumes.

 

[Emberguard]

Personally I prefer Inno to remove or severely restrict free diamonds for 2 reasons:
- it is normal that those who pay have advantages, especially since these are only time savings, no predominant advantage that the free player cannot obtain.
- it is better that Inno earns money with the diamonds henceforth paying that the game is stopped for lack of return in the next 6 months.

The only thing left is that without earning free diamonds and without buying any, it is still possible to have fun on a game that has (until proven otherwise) no real competitor.

The game would feel unplayable for most players if diamonds were removed entirely. Established players already have enough diamond stock to cover negotiation costs if necessary, new players won’t. Having some diamonds for expansions also does wonders for player retention. Doesn’t have to be all expansions, but doesn’t hurt to allow free players to gain some of them

 

[drakenridder]

Almost all the answers here are so ..ugghh!!!

Do you know how a realy good free to play mmo should be?

You should look for the mmoarpg named "Path of Exile" a game which defetead Diablo III in all aspects! Graphics, levels, gameplay, mechanics, design, skills, enemies etc. 100% F2P with no P2W content and it was able to earn a looooot of money only by selling cosmetics!

Devs of that game have been put an effor to always bring amazing content, expansions, new zones, new enemies, etc. Etc. For free! An players obviously know how to appreciate that! And what they do to show how much they appreciate that effort is by buying skins/cosmetics for their armors, weapons, and characters!

Online games with P2W content only tends to get killed by the hate of almost all players to the company behind the game because players know thar being greed is one of the worst thing you can be when you manage a videogame.

Cosmetics for your townhall, for almost any building, for your profile, for the terrain arround your citie, etc. There are plenty of content to create cosmetics and sell them for real cash or diamonds and you are here giving just ridiculous answers about how is good have reduced amount of free diamonds in GE or how is good for Inno sell sometime P2W content. . Pfff!!! Learn how a successful online videogame became successful by searching them and looking for how those game earn money and the love of their players!

I agreed, cosmetics would be really nice. The closest thing we got was Mars' colony. Where with some tech you could change the environment if your space colony in 3 stages (including the vanilla starting environment). I really liked it and went through for the lol, curiosity and cause it was pretty nice imho. Alt. skins for certain buildings and environment unlocked by cash, TT, etc. but particularly some avatars would be nice. The closest thing we have now to such avatars are the top1% event league avatars.

Overall I still do think diamonds are too easy to get. As long post-scarcity can be achieved with diamonds, it's too much imho. Though cosmetics like Desire describes would be a really interesting optional features.