Feedback St. Patrick's Day Event 2023

[Kronan]

There are quite a few older buildings much better than the Druid Hut at level 9.

PRECISELY! - Don't miss this important point, and thank you @Astrid. The beta and player community is contorting through event (game product) fragmentation issues, and jumping through hoops for these new, complex 2023 events (especially as the style Inno is using is NOT an outlier style, but a now trend with visible, big monetization teeth...). I don't think this will resonate with players, so isn't going to be embraced by live players, and is barely embraced by beta players as designed.

People will just continue to eschew these complex overt monstrosities and find value in older game stuff, that ...

doesn't cost cash,
doesn't cost diamonds,
Is complete when you get it (not fragmented)

and is just as good.

 

[Juber]

Ironically I was talking about shards as a grand prize, at least that shocked you more than the dozens of pages of GbG complaints where you admit you don't have time to read it all.
First observation: if nothing is reported to the developers and your time does not allow you to read everything, might as well close the subject of discord?
Second observation: you seem (voluntarily or not) not to understand that little by little everything that was fully won before in events, daily challenges or others (such as the sanctuary of knowledge or the wishing wells) is currently won by fragment, logically, without it disturbing you. It is nonetheless a fact that not only the community is angry at the level cap of the event building but also by the relevance of some grand prizes which are no longer up to par with what we had before, although the price of the diamond is regularly reduced.
And yes, I know how to tell when the players are abusing but I also know how to tell when it's Inno who does it.

Do you feel personally attacked by me or what? I don't get where the tone is coming from.
Also, this thread has nothing to do with gbg. This is a feedback thread. I read every comment here and forward everything here. The other thread you are probably referring to is a discussion thread. For gbg we have a moderated feedback thread for it as well, where I forward the comments.

Feedback is always forwarded and very much appreciated. Especially for events it is very important and we always get some improvements based on player feedback as well.

 

[drakenridder]

ToV pre AF
1% att 1%def
Total: 2% buff
2% buff / 1 square = 2% buff / square

ToV AF+
2% att 2% def
Total: 4%
4% / 1 = 4% buff / square
Average/year lvl9 Druid hut = 3/year

Guardhouse FE
4% att 6% def
Total: 10% buffs
10% / 4 square = 2,5% buff/square

Guardhouse OF+
5% att 7% def
12% buff / 4 square = 3% buff/square
Maxed out chocolate factory = 3/year



Ketebo chock lvl9 FE
24 square
6% att 27% def
31% buff / 24 square = 1,55% buff / square
Annual guardhouses: 3/year (900 frag)

Druid hut lvl9 FE
14% att 17% def
31% / 20 square = 1,55% buff /square
ToV annual average = 3 (300 frag of 1.500 frag)

So, in FE a tie basically except for the ketebo choc. Still both are extremely powerful buildings.

OF
Ketebo choc
6% att 29% def
24 square
35% / 24 square = 1,46%< buff/square
Annual guardhouses: 3/year (900 frag)

Druids hut lvl9 OF
15% 18%
20 square
33% / 20 square = 1,65% buff / square
Annual average ToV: 3 / year (300 frag of 1.500 frag)


In conclusion, the druids hut lvl9 is a more efficient building for attacking buffs. For AF/OF and upwards, it’s stronger than the popular Ketebo choc. Though its fp efficiency is sacrificed. As for feedback I strongly suggest to bringing all the benefits of lvl10’s productions to lvl9, except the daily 10frag/day.

@MooingCat @Xiphos @Astrid would the Druid lvl9 be good enough if it yielded:

Lvl9
13-22% attack & 18-26% defence for attacking armies
12 fps
5x frag (40% ToV, 40% ToP, 20% ToV chance)

Lvl10
13-22% attack & 18-26% defence for attacking armies
12 fps
10x frag (40% ToV, 40% ToP, 20% ToV chance)

This way the freemium lvl offers basically the same amount of ToV on average as a 2nd winter event factory produces in guardhouses. Effectively making lvl9 the maxed out building regarding efficiency, while the freemium lvl10 only offers 2x as many trees.

 

[MooingCat]

For me it's not really about the stats, but the fact that there's a "premium" level at all. I don't even have an issue with a separate kit for the final level, but the event should be designed around getting it for free through the regular game mechanics, not premium. But if that was the case why do it at all? This is clearly going in the direction of "premium" only levels, and I don't like that at all.

For what it's worth, the level 10 building is in line with previous similar buildings like the Mountain Reserve, Heroes Tavern, and House of Horros, the level 9 building is significantly worse.

 

[doughster]

Scaling of the Event buildings has become awful...

The way things are developing currently, all levels below the ultimate level are not worth placing at all - why not just give out fragments of a single stage building instead of the arduous use of upgrade kits and selection kits... designers will also just have to produce a single image for the building instead of 10 of which only one really gets any use anyway...

Why does the druid hut even have a coin production?

I miss the older times when the multistage buildings were introduced - at that time the scaling was almost linear.

Speaking of "coins", fewer and fewer event bldgs are offering coins. Am I the only player that purchases FPs regularly using coins?! This event bldg offers half the coins of the Colossus taking up more space. Yes, I realize there are other items offered for this event bldg but I want COINS more than anything else other than attack/FPs. As an advanced player I have way too much supply. How about replacing supply with coins in future event bldgs.

 

[drakenridder]

@MooingCat that are different types of event buildings. Since they lack fragments production of new buildings. The Druid hut lvl9 is in line with Ketebo chock and even stronger regarding buffs. I'm surprised no one is upset that Ketebo chock isn't in line with eagle mountain and heroes tavern. Following this logic blindly.

Anyways I think if a freemium lvl is so horrible, best Inno can do is introducing a small event pass exclusive building. In example of this event they could've offered a special 1x1 building that doesn't require roads that produces 5 frag daily. This way they would avoid backlash of a freemium lvl. Yet they can sell an payed option to getting faster trees. Handing it out in this specific event early in the event pass, would've allowed the strategy of buying boxes and completing only a few towns.

 

[Finkadel]

Obviously my suggestion is just the opposite of what they want, to force us to spend real money to get the last update.

The trouble is, really vast amount of players will leave instead of paying. That way Inno is killing the golden goose. And I am having popcorn watching them shooting their own foot. Great s-show, I "love" this game!

 

[MooingCat]

@MooingCat that are different types of event buildings. Since they lack fragments production of new buildings. The Druid hut lvl9 is in line with Ketebo chock and even stronger regarding buffs. I'm surprised no one is upset that Ketebo chock isn't in line with eagle mountain and heroes tavern. Following this logic blindly.

Anyways I think if a freemium lvl is so horrible, best Inno can do is introducing a small event pass exclusive building. In example of this event they could've offered a special 1x1 building that doesn't require roads that produces 5 frag daily. This way they would avoid backlash of a freemium lvl. Yet they can sell an payed option to getting faster trees. Handing it out in this specific event early in the event pass, would've allowed the strategy of buying boxes and completing only a few towns.

I was talking more about the fact that the "premium" level is on par with those, while level 9 is considerably below. Because of that, it doesn't feel like level 9 is the "final" level and level 10 is just a bonus, it feels like level 10 is the final level and level 9 is stripped down to promote paying money.

As for the Trees, yeah I do agree they increase the value, but not by that much. The Hut has lower FPs than those buildings, no goods, no population/happiness for those valuing that. The ToV gives good attack values, but not that crazy atm considering it needs a road. That knocks down the attack / tile to 2.67, which is definitely good, but to equal the ~2.19 attack/tile the EM/HT have, you need 15-16 ToVs in addition to the level 9 Hut, which will take 4-5 years. Because of all those factors, I wouldn't personally value the Hut's secondary values that much higher than EM/HT's.

 

[xivarmy]

@MooingCat that are different types of event buildings. Since they lack fragments production of new buildings. The Druid hut lvl9 is in line with Ketebo chock and even stronger regarding buffs. I'm surprised no one is upset that Ketebo chock isn't in line with eagle mountain and heroes tavern. Following this logic blindly.

Anyways I think if a freemium lvl is so horrible, best Inno can do is introducing a small event pass exclusive building. In example of this event they could've offered a special 1x1 building that doesn't require roads that produces 5 frag daily. This way they would avoid backlash of a freemium lvl. Yet they can sell an payed option to getting faster trees. Handing it out in this specific event early in the event pass, would've allowed the strategy of buying boxes and completing only a few towns.

I would disagree that the Lv 9 Druid Hut is in-line with Ketebo Candy.

​	Size​	FP​	Goods​	Atk​	Defense​	FP/Tile​	Goods/Tile​	Atk/Tile​	Defense/Tile​	“Efficiency”​
Druid's Hut​	22​	7​	​	17​	20​	0.32​	0.00​	0.77​	0.91​	134%​
Golden Druid's Hut​	22​	12​	​	22​	26​	0.55​	0.00​	1.00​	1.18​	192%​
Ketebo Candy​	26​	14​	10​	7​	34​	0.54​	0.38​	0.27​	1.31​	158%​
Tree of Vitality​	1.5​	1​	​	2​	2​	0.67​	0.00​	1.33​	1.33​	241%​
Nutcracker Guardhouse​	5​	3​	​	5​	7​	0.60​	0.00​	1.00​	1.40​	208%​

(the "efficiency" column is based on my personal evaluation vs other previous buildings - it does not include the fragments, but I'll discuss those in a moment). Eagle Reserve FWIW hits 212% - so none of the main buildings hit that bar, not even the premium druid hut But that's ok - not every building is a new best (nor should be). I only mention it as a point of comparison.

Fragments aren't included in my "efficiency" numbers, because i haven't been able to envision a standard to give them points for that one yet since it's always fragments of different things.

So the Fragments in this case:

Ketebo makes 3 * 365 / 200 * 1.65 (Lv 68 BG) = 9.0 Nutcracker Guardhouses a year
Lv 9 Druid Hut makes 5 * 0.2 * 365 / 100 * 1.65 = 6.0 Tree of Vitality a year
Lv 10 Druid hut makes 10 * 0.2 * 365 / 100 * 1.65 = 12.0 Tree of Vitality a year.

Now while the Tree of Vitality is "more efficient", the Nutcracker guardhouse also consumes more space - I'm pretty sure I'd prefer 9 nutcracker guardhouses over even 12 trees of vitality from the lv 10 hut, though at least that comparison is closer.

Accordingly I'd say Ketebo is definitely better than Lv 9 Druid's Hut. And an interesting comparison to lv 10 (more efficient base stats on the Lv 10 Druid Hut, prefer the fragments from Ketebo).

----

None of this is the point however! If the Druid's hut *had no level 10 option* and level 9 was exactly as it is now it'd just be another event with a building that wasn't quite as good as something previous. And that would be fine. You'd either decide "yea, but it's still better than *something* I can replace and is worth the work" or not. But now you have the possibility of "I don't want the level 9, I would want the level 10, but I have no guarantee I can get the level 10 without spending". Which for the record is where all but 1 of my worlds would stand on the matter (my newest world will probably play the event on live trying for a level 10, but still building a level 9 if that's where it gets caught).

 

[Retired Guy]

I don't understand the math..
Guardhouse OF+
5% att 7% def
12% buff / 4 square = 3% buff/square
Maxed out chocolate factory = 3/year

3 segments a day generated, 200 required.. so 1 Guardhouse every 70 days.. 365 / 70 = 5 a year.. How did we get to 3?

 

[XIA*]

Can someone tell me why the premium options are for cash on BETA? I thought this was a place to test stuff and that oftentimes there are issues because of bugs. Why should I spend CASH on a test server....?

 

[Kronan]

Can someone tell me why the premium options are for cash on BETA? I thought this was a place to test stuff and that oftentimes there are issues because of bugs. Why should I spend CASH on a test server....?

@Shinnokina ()

I asked that here.... In November 2022. I never (we never....) got an answer.

https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/winter-event-2022.15846/post-145377

 

[UBERhelp1]

Can someone tell me why the premium options are for cash on BETA? I thought this was a place to test stuff and that oftentimes there are issues because of bugs. Why should I spend CASH on a test server....?

Because this isn't really a beta server in the usual sense of the word. Instead, it's more like a normal server where features are released earlier, and you get paid diamonds every so often. It's basically a test to make sure the features are stable on a large scale, and to see feedback from players on balancing/fairness, even if that last point isn't always listened to. Additionally, this server is often used to see how players on live servers would react to the features. For example, if you gave everyone a sandbox world, they would just give themselves every resource or tons of event currency, and that doesn't provide an accurate representation of the game in a live setting.

(Most likely) The devs have their own private testing server for the majority of debugging and probably an alpha server that would be what is considered a normal beta test, with more of a sandbox type environment for testing features in a variety of scenarios. We saw a bit of this with I think SAV or SAJM (it's been a while and I'm too lazy to look it up) where some players got access to pre-made cities for the purposes of testing the age.

Overall, the reason you are able to pay for stuff on Beta is because they want you to. They want to see ahead of live who is purchasing what packages, where they can make more money, etc. Why do you think the Forge Bowl coach is more expensive? Why did they switch to paid event passes? Because even though we complain about them, many players are still paying for them simply because they are in the game. The cost to develop and implement these features is much less than the revenue they make, so while it does ruin free to play gameplay, in terms of purely supporting the bottom line, they are the logical decisions.

Time and time again, the only way to express your true thoughts is to vote with your wallet. Don't like the level 9 + premium level 10? Then don't purchase the event pass. The only way we can expect to see change is if you realize that spending money on these features only encourages more of them to be added. If you don't like it, don't buy. That feedback will be listened to much more readily than anything anyone on these forums writes, as it provides data to Inno on what the market of the game will bear rather than just unquantifiable player sentiment.

 

[xivarmy]

Time and time again, the only way to express your true thoughts is to vote with your wallet. Don't like the level 9 + premium level 10? Then don't purchase the event pass. The only way we can expect to see change is if you realize that spending money on these features only encourages more of them to be added. If you don't like it, don't buy. That feedback will be listened to much more readily than anything anyone on these forums writes, as it provides data to Inno on what the market of the game will bear rather than just unquantifiable player sentiment.

The trouble is, one person voting with their wallet will not have any noticeable effect. And coordinating a boycott is just not going to happen on any meaningful scale.

So the advice I'd usually give is : "Is it worth it to you?" If you feel it is, you're just harming yourself to think you're sending a message.

Notably I don't see many purchases of the pass as-is for this event, no matter how much better the level 10 looks than the level 9. Because 275 tasks is more than the vast majority are interested in doing. The most common strategy in years past was to hit like 150 tasks + buy chests at the end of 4 cities. Because it's the least work. This year to get 9 levels is even less (9 levels instead of 10, and every 2nd GP instead of every 3rd). 275 tasks is *at least* twice the work - *and* you have to pay (which has always been a problem with the st patricks event - it's pay to work harder to a large degree).

If they want the pass to be tempting to the typical lazy-player they have to move that level 10 item much much earlier in it.

---

The trouble from inno's side of creeping monetization is when it goes too far and people say screw this and bail, you're not getting them back by undoing it - they're just gone. So they better have a very tight eye on analytics other than total sales that might send an early warning of discontent in the wider population (as opposed to just the forum population )

 

[UBERhelp1]

Wrote code to estimate the data for opening chests after completing a city. Seems like if you assume a 1/3 chance to get a golden upgrade from chests per city, then the odds that you get a full upgrade broken down by city completed are (roughly) given below. TL;DR is ~50% at 8 cities and 70% at 10.

Spoiler: Chance Chart

City #	Chance
1	0%
2	0%
3	3%
4	11%
5	21%
6	32%
7	42%
8	53%
9	62%
10	70%
11	77%
12	82%
13	86%
14	90%
15	92%
16	94%
17​	96%​

And by some back of the napkin math, I think it should be possible to have enough pots to play through ~10 towns and open the all the chests 3 times, with some left over and not including incidents, which would give you roughly a 70% chance of getting a level 10 Hut. It would also potentially put you over 300 tasks, at which point you'd only need 2 sets of the fragments from chests, which would raise your odds at 10 towns to nearly 90%, with a 50% around level 5.

So I think the strategy is to complete towns quickly early on, and whenever you see the fragments for the upgrade appear, take them. Then if you get all three early on, you can take it easier the rest of the event. It still really annoys me that you can do everything completely perfectly in this event and still not get the main building though.

Idk though, my math could be off.

 

[xivarmy]

So I think the strategy is to complete towns quickly early on, and whenever you see the fragments for the upgrade appear, take them. Then if you get all three early on, you can take it easier the rest of the event. It still really annoys me that you can do everything completely perfectly in this event and still not get the main building though.

Idk though, my math could be off.

It's possible to do it perfectly and get it to 100% (by hitting 600 tasks). It's just a little insane is all. Ninjalin laid it out earlier in the thread. 1M City = 18 Tasks for 130 pots, then 18 more cities getting 32-33 tasks each. Your budget per city neglecting incidents is (11200 (last year's total from wiki - seems to be the same this year)-130 (1st city)) = 11070 / 18 = ~615. Which is tight but plausible (I have to work out a few details to make sure that the 32-33 is not slowed down too much by being that much of a skinflint on managers). Incidents can allow you to buy some "luxury" managers Then each time you see golden fragments you can wimp out 150 tasks worth (=~4 or so less cities). But dear god does the thought of doing that make me want to not play the event at all instead

 

[kleopatra911]

Also not sure how you're going to keep doing tasks on the 1M city if you cant purchase managers for the cupcake factory and onward, you'll just be stuck on the buying managers tasks eventually, and you have to manually collect....

seems to be a bug - reloading the page helped for me, that is the manager appeared

 

[Pericles the Lion]

It's possible to do it perfectly and get it to 100% (by hitting 600 tasks). It's just a little insane is all. Ninjalin laid it out earlier in the thread. 1M City = 18 Tasks for 130 pots, then 18 more cities getting 32-33 tasks each. Your budget per city neglecting incidents is (11200 (last year's total from wiki - seems to be the same this year)-130 (1st city)) = 11070 / 18 = ~615. Which is tight but plausible (I have to work out a few details to make sure that the 32-33 is not slowed down too much by being that much of a skinflint on managers). Incidents can allow you to buy some "luxury" managers Then each time you see golden fragments you can wimp out 150 tasks worth (=~4 or so less cities). But dear god does the thought of doing that make me want to not play the event at all instead

I tried the @MooingCat "Speedrun" once and completed 11 cities. Too much babysitting for my taste. I prefer his "Classic" model. There's no way that I'm going to grind out a city per day to get the last level for free (and I'm not going to buy it). After all, the benefit of the new building is found in incremental change. An existing building(s) will have to be removed to make space for the new one. IMO, an incremental boost of a few A/D % isn't worth the time required to achieve it. I'll go for the L9 and call it a day.

 

[beelzebob666]

As there is a good chance to get golden fragments in the boxes, you may try for doing 10 cities for 300 tasks total (about 2 days time per city) and buy boxes when there are fragments offered. When you are lucky and you get offered the fragments often early on, you may even save on doing a couple towns

 

[CrashBoom]

As there is a good chance to get golden fragments in the boxes, you may try for doing 10 cities for 300 tasks total (about 2 days time per city) and buy boxes when there are fragments offered. When you are lucky and you get offered the fragments often early on, you may even save on doing a couple towns

in my opinion that concept is even worse than only offering it only to people who pay money
the success depends on pure luck

if they are offering the golden fragment in the city end reward boxes they should put it in fix runs (for example: after 3rd, 6th, 9th)
that would be fair to the players and not luck based