Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

[Beta King]

That shows the attitude of larger guilds, which has been prevalent in this thread. The larger guilds have contempt for other guilds and claim the right to own everything. I actually did not realize how bad this attitude was until I saw it spelled out so many times in this thread. It is mostly the large powerful guilds who do not want this change, because they think that it disrupts their right to own it all. And then they say that others should not accuse them of being greedy? I really did not consider them as greedy until I saw the comments in this thread.

The contempt i have is for the Less capable guilds and players begging for this nerf so they can get just as many rewards without having to do the work of building a strong guild or building a strong city to be wanted in a strong guild or possible they aren't capable of doing so after years of failing. Its a "participation trophy" mentality for the weak plain and simple. Smaller weaker guilds are a stepping stone to build your city stronger to be wanted in stronger guilds and if you are a guild leader and continue to allow a large percentage of non active players and dont have strong requirements you will never become a strong guild plain and simple and that is your choice but don't let envy control you if you do.

 

[CrashBoom]

for me it looks like the people who don't want it are more begging than the players who find it good

I haven't seen anybody saying he would quit if this change would be reverted

 

[Thunderdome]

I think you just proved that this change will work. Those 20K fewer fights that you had will be 20K that other guilds might be able to use. I don't think that very many guilds will feel sympathy that you are "only" getting 45K fights.

Nope. Those fights won't exist. If a two trailer semi was going 85 on a highway that had it as a speed limit and then later came to an area that the speed limit is 70, the semi will have to slow down to match the new speed. The trailers do not go 85 as a result, they have to be slowed (since they are part of the truck) down as well so the whole unit can travel at the new speed limit.

The fights won't magically appear on a different guild's platter. Why? Because this "one size fits all" affects everyone, not just a certain group.

I haven't seen anybody saying he would quit if this change would be reverted

I love that subtle hint of sarcasm in there, lol.

 

[Demeter7]

The contempt i have is for the Less capable guilds and players begging for this nerf so they can get just as many rewards without having to do the work of building a strong guild or building a strong city to be wanted in a strong guild or possible they aren't capable of doing so after years of failing. Its a "participation trophy" mentality for the weak plain and simple. Smaller weaker guilds are a stepping stone to build your city stronger to be wanted in stronger guilds and if you are a guild leader and continue to allow a large percentage of non active players and dont have strong requirements you will never become a strong guild plain and simple and that is your choice but don't let envy control you if you do.

Thanks for admitting contempt. That is really not good sportsmanship! Everyone started someplace.

Guilds are going to need to be stronger to compete with higher attrition. Why are powerful guilds afraid of this, if they are so powerful? Do these "powerful" guilds expect Inno to make it as easy for them as possible so that they do not need to use effort?

Other guilds do not want a "participation trophy". They just want to be able to play the game and do their best.

 

[xivarmy]

The contempt i have is for the Less capable guilds and players begging for this nerf so they can get just as many rewards without having to do the work of building a strong guild or building a strong city to be wanted in a strong guild or possible they aren't capable of doing so after years of failing. Its a "participation trophy" mentality for the weak plain and simple. Smaller weaker guilds are a stepping stone to build your city stronger to be wanted in stronger guilds and if you are a guild leader and continue to allow a large percentage of non active players and dont have strong requirements you will never become a strong guild plain and simple and that is your choice but don't let envy control you if you do.

They're not getting as many rewards.

They're maybe possibly getting a little bit of ability to annoy their overlords who now need to deal with attrition too, but guilds with full siege support will still get about 3 times the fight capacity per player as guilds that don't have siege support.

Is 3* the right number? Maybe it should be higher (possibly even uncapped, but still with multiplicative siege camps so you never reach free). But free attrition from additive siege camps offers hyperbolic scaling, ultimately only capped by the 4 hr window - which is why it needs to end.

 

[King Flush]

A little example , it's not from my guild but that is not important it's a little guild 5 people working hard every season , the green all week long put a trap in front of their HQ even if they take over the trap , the green laughs because it's surrounded by 7 camps and they suffer never any attrition.

I can assure you this guild welcomes the changes , and all those who claim it will change nothing for the small guilds and they will suffer even more, i really think they are wrong.
It will change nothing for them because they never played to exploit, but if the attrition is implemented the green will think twice because they can't exploit 0 anymore and will also suffer , giving more chance to the small take a second sector punishing the green by putting other traps there or first build camps and move on if they can and then fill everything with traps again.

I saw arguments here on the forum the big guilds will take everything like before and then putting traps to counter the small onces , i only say that can turns toward you also.

you pick a very strange example to make your point, one that doesn't work at all, Green clearly is not tactically very savvy their holdings are prone to be broken through and destroyed basically they are not working an alliance nor are they holding any pins, now my best guess is the other guilds on the map have absolutely no desire to do anything otherwise it would be extremely easy for them get through and desimate green this probably did happen but a screen shot won't show this, traps currently wouldn't stop a determined guild from breaking through but seeing maps look like that in the future and being able to be held that way as traps will be more effective will likely be the case, so I think you just demonstrate that the nerf is a bad thing, I thank you.

I can assure you a 5 man guild will not be thankful for these changes as the changes favour guilds of higher numbers and will likely see traps infront of them more often cept for the fact they will be more effective.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Only at the rogue guild that needs to be trapped... Such a 15 man guild now will have to either use much of its possible attrition to move a tile or 2 back towards the middle BUT will not have reserves to move farther. They could move sideways but that does the goal of holding them up too. Just a slow motion form of what we had already. By the way there is not 6 benched guilds... Most will work to make deals, some will still look at 1K as a 2 week vacation hurrying back to platinum where they enjoyed GBG. A 4 way split map still works

You responded to me but it was to @MrBrister that this should have been directed. It was his suggestion that 2 powerful guilds trap ring 3 so that "all is right in the world".

 

[DEADP00L]

So the main argument of the guilds who feel aggrieved would be to put traps to block the smaller guilds AND in the same text dare to say that their game before was not set up to block them?
When are you going to stop taking us for idiots?
You are so upset that you no longer cultivate FP as before that you want to take revenge on the smaller ones.
Keep going and inno will remove traps or decrease locations to never reach all 3 camps!
Demonstrate that your only objective is not to enjoy playing but to harm others and you will prove that Inno is right to no longer listen to you and therefore not to take your votes into account.

 

[King Flush]

for me it looks like the people who don't want it are more begging than the players who find it good

I haven't seen anybody saying he would quit if this change would be reverted

of course not why would they, the game is still the same why would anybody leave, obviously to have absolutely no regard to the time/effort/money some players have put into the game for it to all be nullified in such an extreme manner it will obviously p1ss a lot of people off

 

[Pericles the Lion]

The fights won't magically appear on a different guild's platter. Why? Because this "one size fits all" affects everyone, not just a certain group.

I would agree that it will not be a zero-sum game but some of the fights that the bigger guilds forfeit will go to the smaller/weaker guilds. Also, many of the fights that would have gone to the top 10, or so, fighters in a stronger guild will now go to their lower ranked guildmates who previously only got the scraps that fell off their table. The great thing is that all of this is quantifiable. After a few seasons it will be an easy exercise to see what the impact is in granular detail.

 

[xivarmy]

I can assure you a 5 man guild will not be thankful for these changes as the changes favour guilds of higher numbers and will likely see traps infront of them more often cept for the fact they will be more effective.

As someone often in such a guild (by choice), traps in front will be no more effective after the change than before on account of when you have to start by breaking out of your HQ, you have no siege camps to counter them at that point. And rolling lockouts are a much bigger obstacle.

Traps will be more effective at protecting your meagre gains against the dominant guilds if you prefer since siege camps won't render them 100% ineffective (though I still don't know I'll be leaning that way at all - I tend to play a tit for tat strategy and not do the things I wish weren't done to me unless provoked to do otherwise).

One thing to keep in mind with traps is they take 5 hours to build naturally - so if you want to use them effectively you almost always need to diamond-construct them. Otherwise the guild you're trying to trap has a 1 hour window to take it as if the trap isn't there. People fast-finish siege camps because it gets them more rewards. Will they be as willing to fast-finish a trap just to spite a guild that's not a real threat anyways?

 

[Demeter7]

So the main argument of the guilds who feel aggrieved would be to put traps to block the smaller guilds AND in the same text dare to say that their game before was not set up to block them?
When are you going to stop taking us for idiots?
You are so upset that you no longer cultivate FP as before that you want to take revenge on the smaller ones.
Keep going and inno will remove traps or decrease locations to never reach all 3 camps!
Demonstrate that your only objective is not to enjoy playing but to harm others and you will prove that Inno is right to no longer listen to you and therefore not to take your votes into account.

Inno... PLEASE Read this ^^^^
This explains very well why we need this change NOW. Please go live in the next GBG!
Enough is enough.

The previous comments do indeed show that the top guilds are not only using zero attrition for rewards, they are intentionally using it to block other guilds from gameplay.

 

[King Flush]

So the main argument of the guilds who feel aggrieved would be to put traps to block the smaller guilds AND in the same text dare to say that their game before was not set up to block them?
When are you going to stop taking us for idiots?
You are so upset that you no longer cultivate FP as before that you want to take revenge on the smaller ones.
Keep going and inno will remove traps or decrease locations to never reach all 3 camps!
Demonstrate that your only objective is not to enjoy playing but to harm others and you will prove that Inno is right to no longer listen to you and therefore not to take your votes into account.

not suggesting they'd be used to annoy the other guilds but it's called 'battlegrounds' and it's a tool in the arsenal that will have more power that given that will be used more frequent, sure Inno might also nerf the traps or remove them, how long will this take? don't forget they'll also be busy rectifying all the other ramifications from this, there will be MANY other problems it will create that will need addressing, that's if they still have a job

 

[King Flush]

I would agree that it will not be a zero-sum game but some of the fights that the bigger guilds forfeit will go to the smaller/weaker guilds. Also, many of the fights that would have gone to the top 10, or so, fighters in a stronger guild will now go to their lower ranked guildmates who previously only got the scraps that fell off their table. The great thing is that all of this is quantifiable. After a few seasons it will be an easy exercise to see what the impact is in granular detail.

will be more than a few seasons for everything to be realised and the saying goes, there's no point closing the stable door once the horse has bolted' damage may have already be done by then once it's realised what a mistake it was made.

 

[jovada]

I can assure you a 5 man guild will not be thankful for these changes as the changes favour guilds of higher numbers and will likely see traps infront of them more often cept for the fact they will be more effective.

I show what's happening right now on RL world , it's a fact the map shows it , what other guilds do to stop green or what they could do have nothing to do with it , you only speculate and neither i or you know if there is an agreement between them or not.

Now to counter your argument (wich are only assumptions) i shall explain you what that little 5 man guild can do to counter you. first bring it to 150/160 and take it right before the clock ,now put 1 camp in it , and attack with fresh attrition a second if you succeed you can put also traps in that sector because it's unlikely you can take a 3 sector with so little members.
Of course 2 big guilds can swap with each other but each time i take that 1 sector you must be alert and suffer more attrition on my trap.
Those guilds may be strong guilds but in fact they show only how weak they are and what bad mentality they have if they have to reduce to such practices.
It also shows how stupid they are to concentrate only on that little guild and spend attrition there because everything they spend there can not be used to counter other attacks haha.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

of course not why would they, the game is still the same why would anybody leave, obviously to have absolutely no regard to the time/effort/money some players have put into the game for it to all be nullified in such an extreme manner it will obviously p1ss a lot of people off

"Nullified"? I think not. "Extreme manner"? It's not extreme. Actually, it's genius. The reduction in SC effectiveness impacts everyone. Players with high A/D will still have an advantage over players will lesser A/D. Seems fair to me.

 

[Beta King]

I show what's happening right now on RL world , it's a fact the map shows it , what other guilds do to stop green or what they could do have nothing to do with it , you only speculate and neither i or you know if there is an agreement between them or not.

Now to counter your argument (wich are only assumptions) i shall explain you what that little 5 man guild can do to counter you. first bring it to 150/160 and take it right before the clock ,now put 1 camp in it , and attack with fresh attrition a second if you succeed you can put also traps in that sector because it's unlikely you can take a 3 sector with so little members.
Of course 2 big guilds can swap with each other but each time i take that 1 sector you must be alert and suffer more attrition on my trap.
Those guilds may be strong guilds but in fact they show only how weak they are and what bad mentality they have if they have to reduce to such practices.
It also shows how stupid they are to concentrate only on that little guild and spend attrition there because everything they spend there can not be used to counter other attacks haha.

And because the smaller guilds will be using traps to inch their way out and disrupt is exactly why the bigger guilds will naturally trap the smaller guilds first so they cant take any sectors to trap. Cause & Effect, the weaker guild will not get some kind of magical advantage here.

 

[CrashBoom]

And because the smaller guilds will be using traps to inch their way out and disrupt is exactly why the bigger guilds will naturally trap the smaller guilds first so they cant take any sectors to trap. Cause & Effect, the weaker guild will not get some kind of magical advantage here.

the small only will use traps if the big pissed them off

they would build SC
or nothing: but reading this thread that will piss the big ones off because then they don't take the next fast enough so they can take it back as often as possible,

so to be honest
the big won't build traps because the small are building traps first
but because the small don't play like the big want it

 

[knarre sbeat]

And because the smaller guilds will be using traps to inch their way out and disrupt is exactly why the bigger guilds will naturally trap the smaller guilds first so they cant take any sectors to trap. Cause & Effect, the weaker guild will not get some kind of magical advantage here.

I think thats the wrong way to look at it imo. Maybe becouse of people thinking that way, we had the chessboard meta for 2, the last 2 years.
Why cant we figure a way to help everyone get little bit of joy in that extra game mode?
Nobody needs to place traps if everybody is kind of happy.
small Guild dont need the same as big guilds, just a little bit oppertunitys.
After day 3 it should be clear what kind of guilds are on the board.
if a guild can barely get 1 sector a day.
just leave them 1 sector at all times to attack.
Other 30 people guilds get 4-5 sectors to attack per day.
We all know how it can be, so i think as long as there is no "only for 2 chessboard", nobody would feel the urge to build traps.
But still the strong guilds would need to let a few sectors pass, meaning a few houndred fights less per day, for the result of everybody happy.
probably to high of a wage.

 

[King Flush]

I think thats the wrong way to look at it imo. Maybe becouse of people thinking that way, we had the chessboard meta for 2, the last 2 years.
Why cant we figure a way to help everyone get little bit of joy in that extra game mode?

where is the joy? for me it's the competition and the tactics that go with it, but seems we don't want this, we all just want to be allowed out to play nice, hold hands and sing kumbaya.

If comes in GBG really needs a new name as 'battle' will be ironic