Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

[Pericles the Lion]

We used to do this all the time in the last 1-2 days of the majority of the rounds, people either got bored, it's weekend, we "save" some goods also and we are 1 anyway.

Interesting. So, one would think that your Guild places more emphasis on the GBG ranking than farming rewards.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Usually that happens when the round is winding down and there is no chance a place is going to be "stolen" in the last days. Usually happens when you have a large leap ahead.

Yep, it's pretty much that. Congrats on that 1.

I thought so but wanted to confirm it. This being the case, the SC/WT change has less of an impact. Swapping sectors for farming will burn up attrition. Holding taken ground doesn't.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

1 Ridicule and ridiculous are two different words. I never used ridiculous nor would I...
2 For over 2 years Inno allowed game play to evolve. Only you use the word Exploitation. If Inno believed it was such they would have done something years ago. Exploitation means to do something others can't for personal gain. The use of SC's is and was available to all. It was not a bug...

Two things bear mentioning. First, this being an English-language forum, many posts are subject to translation. I think that nitpicking grammatical nuances is not necessary. Second, Webster's definition of "exploitation" includes "the fact of making use of a situation to gain unfair advantage for oneself" in which case @jovada correctly used the word.

 

[Thunderdome]

I thought so but wanted to confirm it. This being the case, the SC/WT change has less of an impact. Swapping sectors for farming will burn up attrition. Holding taken ground doesn't.

I can say for certain that it probably won't affect the bigger player as they can still fight. My concern is for the player that either just started to get into the FoE scene or one that is currently developing; it will put the brakes as well.

Too bad, this "one size fits all" method is for all players in all league categories of GBg, else I would have said maybe make this SC/WT change for the diamond and higher leagues while scaling towards 100% 0 attrition for the lower leagues:

• Bronze at 100% full 0 attrition cap for SC/WT as much as they can be built.
• Silver at 90% full 0 attrition cap for SC/WT as much as they can be built.
• Gold at 80% full 0 attrition cap for SC/WT as much as they can be built.

I am just throwing numbers for example as I don't know how they can be tweaked, but Bronze should be at 100% as to get guilds acclimated to the world of GBg. And with 8 guilds being matched on any map, 1 or 2 are still going to be promoted regardless, so there won't be room for abuse (i.e., creating another guild and jumping to it just to farm the meager rewards in bronze while losing out on all the guild power and level of previous guild).

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I can say for certain that it probably won't affect the bigger player as they can still fight. My concern is for the player that either just started to get into the FoE scene or one that is currently developing; it will put the brakes as well.

Too bad, this "one size fits all" method is for all players in all league categories of GBg, else I would have said maybe make this SC/WT change for the diamond and higher leagues while scaling towards 100% 0 attrition for the lower leagues:

• Bronze at 100% full 0 attrition cap for SC/WT as much as they can be built.
• Silver at 90% full 0 attrition cap for SC/WT as much as they can be built.
• Gold at 80% full 0 attrition cap for SC/WT as much as they can be built.

I am just throwing numbers for example as I don't know how they can be tweaked, but Bronze should be at 100% as to get guilds acclimated to the world of GBg. And with 8 guilds being matched on any map, 1 or 2 are still going to be promoted regardless, so there won't be room for abuse (i.e., creating another guild and jumping to it just to farm the meager rewards in bronze while losing out on all the guild power and level of previous guild).

I play 5 worlds on the US server. My main is L1000, 2 of the others are L950, the last 2 are Platinum. On my main world we build SCs everywhere we can right up to the closing round. For sure, my battles will be reduced when this change hits live and I'll adapt. On the other four worlds, zero attrition sectors happen but very rarely. In my experience, zero attrition has been a game feature most exploited by the top guilds in Diamond 1000. If true, then the biggest adjustment will be made by players most able to bear it, myself included.

 

[blueskydwg]

I can say for certain that it probably won't affect the bigger player as they can still fight. My concern is for the player that either just started to get into the FoE scene or one that is currently developing; it will put the brakes as well.

Don't agree. The bigger players have been able to make use of lots of free fights (I speak from experience in my main world) and can get upwards of 1000 or more fights per day, depending on how quickly boredom sets in with autofight after autofight. But with a max of 66.6% attrition reduction those same players are going to be limited to 400 to 500 fights per day.

 

[-Alin-]

Don't agree. The bigger players have been able to make use of lots of free fights (I speak from experience in my main world) and can get upwards of 1000 or more fights per day, depending on how quickly boredom sets in with autofight after autofight. But with a max of 66.6% attrition reduction those same players are going to be limited to 400 to 500 fights per day.

385 was my best, fighting only on 66.6% and reaching 149 attrition that day.
You can do a maximum of 3600(+-) fights/round assuming You are doing atleast 130 attrition per day and You are lucky enough to get 66.6 on all fights.

 

[blueskydwg]

OK - too many pages to read - so much of what I'm going to say may be redundant - but here goes.
I'm a mid level player (in Beta) in a large guild with lots of whales. Prior to this season in battlegrounds my ability to get in fights was more a matter of luck than anything else - did something new happen to open up just when I checked and before the whales took over.
This season, the whales actually max out their attrition and I was able to get in fights that had a high SC support (we continued to build SCs - in fact more so than previous season - guess the whales didn't want to give up anything) everyday. I kept track of my attrition and fights on a daily basis:

Day	Attrition	Total Fights	Incremental fights	fight to attrition ratio	Attrition %
1	57	114	114	2	50.00%
2	61	271	157	2.574	61.15%
3	69	422	151	2.188	54.30%
4	62	570	148	2.387	58.11%
5	43	682	112	2.605	61.61%
6	62	839	157	2.532	60.51%
7	60	975	136	2.267	55.88%
8	62	1099	124	2.000	50.00%
9	57	1276	177	3.105	67.80%
10	48	1376	100	2.083	52.00%

With a few days to go, my total fights this season is the highest I've had except for two seasons about a year ago.

Bottom line - my Beta experience has been favorable.

 

[Yekk]

Two things bear mentioning. First, this being an English-language forum, many posts are subject to translation. I think that nitpicking grammatical nuances is not necessary. Second, Webster's definition of "exploitation" includes "the fact of making use of a situation to gain unfair advantage for oneself" in which case @jovada correctly used the word.

Actually Jovada did not as it is not unfair as every guild has the same rules. Any two decent guilds can stuff even the strongest guild. All guilds know the rules and can use them if they are strong enough and work together. Because of that guilds learned to work together.

Exploitation was a trigger word used to enflame. As for using the situation...the rules allowed it as did Inno.

 

[blueskydwg]

Now for what I expect on my live world.
My main player is a high level (top 100) in a small guild.
When we are in a lower level diamond we typically dominate and 5 or 6 thousand fights are not unusual.
When we are in a field with a couple of large guilds we have to take what is left to us.
With this change - my expectation is that most of the large guild whales will actually hit a max attrition for the first time.
They will capture the full map early on day one like before, but then they will be done. So after 4 hours we small guilds will be able to make advances that we wouldn't have before.
I expect that small guilds that want to advance will be able to do so more easily than before.
Yes, I will occasionally lose a couple thousand fights over the course of a season, but the overall results will be more satisfying since the whales will not be able to so easily dominate.

Bottom line - my expectation is that the main negative impact of this change will be the big player (the whales) in the big guilds.
Everyone else will see no big impact or even an improvement in battleground experience.

 

[Yekk]

Now for what I expect on my live world.
My main player is a high level (top 100) in a small guild.
When we are in a lower level diamond we typically dominate and 5 or 6 thousand fights are not unusual.
When we are in a field with a couple of large guilds we have to take what is left to us.
With this change - my expectation is that most of the large guild whales will actually hit a max attrition for the first time.
They will capture the full map early on day one like before, but then they will be done. So after 4 hours we small guilds will be able to make advances that we wouldn't have before.
I expect that small guilds that want to advance will be able to do so more easily than before.
Yes, I will occasionally lose a couple thousand fights over the course of a season, but the overall results will be more satisfying since the whales will not be able to so easily dominate.

Bottom line - my expectation is that the main negative impact of this change will be the big player (the whales) in the big guilds.
Everyone else will see no big impact or even an improvement in battleground experience.

You will however still place in the same spot in the 1K league. Your guild is a strong diamond lite guild. Wouldn't it be better to be able to stay in diamond lite(901-999) where you admit to doing best? The problem is not the whales, many of which do great help to your world, but the unfair placement rules that force you to play in a league where you can not compete. The problem with taking a whales riches away is some of that FP went to players in guilds such as yours to level your lower arcs. The GB goods you bought also were from those whales many of which gave them for a pittance.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

You will however still place in the same spot in the 1K league. Your guild is a strong diamond lite guild. Wouldn't it be better to be able to stay in diamond lite(901-999) where you admit to doing best?

The landscape has changed. With the change, DiamondLite guilds will be better able to compete with L1000. They will no longer feel compelled to tank a season so that they get back to 900-999. I think that this is INNO's goal.

The problem is not the whales, many of which do great help to your world, but the unfair placement rules that force you to play in a league where you can not compete. The problem with taking a whales riches away is some of that FP went to players in guilds such as yours to level your lower arcs. The GB goods you bought also were from those whales many of which gave them for a pittance.

This is a specious argument. A player with a L80 Arc gets back every FP that is invested in another player's GB, in a 1.9 thread, when it levels (you know this). A player gets back more than his investment if his/her Arc is >80 (you should know this too). Unless the whale literally gives FPs away, adds them to his/her own GB, or spends them on research, their bank will continue to increase regardless of GBG participation. I have over 300K FPs in my bank. If I gave up GBG entirely, my ability to contribute to my guildmates' buildings would not be compromised.

 

[jovada]

The problem with taking a whales riches away is some of that FP went to players in guilds such as yours to level your lower arcs. The GB goods you bought also were from those whales many of which gave them for a pittance.

Many older (bigger) players do that leveling low arcs from guildies or gave them the goods for a pittance, you don't have to be a whale for that.
And what you mention here was already done before GbG existed, beside how many drop 1.9 and receive everything back , in fact many do that with their innings or profit having a 1000 fp in the upper score bar so they receive it back in inventory

 

[Yekk]

The landscape has changed. With the change, DiamondLite guilds will be better able to compete with L1000. They will no longer feel compelled to tank a season so that they get back to 900-999. I think that this is INNO's goal.


This is a specious argument. A player with a L80 Arc gets back every FP that is invested in another player's GB, in a 1.9 thread, when it levels (you know this). A player gets back more than his investment if his/her Arc is >80 (you should know this too). Unless the whale literally gives FPs away, adds them to his/her own GB, or spends them on research, their bank will continue to increase regardless of GBG participation. I have over 300K FPs in my bank. If I gave up GBG entirely, my ability to contribute to my guildmates' buildings would not be compromised.

I have many in guild that donate at what their Arc reward is if asked. Your arc is 130. Do you give 195%? On tanking 1/2 of a diamond lite was in 1K last league. It is much more likely a platinum guild gets forced up. The D lite, if they can build, is welcome in 1K on many worlds. That said Jovada is doing well in his D lite but will move to 1K next time is my guess. Can his guild build for 11 days? If not he will see SC pulled in front of him as his guild moves out.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I have many in guild that donate at what their Arc reward is if asked. Your arc is 130. Do you give 195%? On tanking 1/2 of a diamond lite was in 1K last league. It is much more likely a platinum guild gets forced up. The D lite, if they can build, is welcome in 1K on many worlds. That said Jovada is doing well in his D lite but will move to 1K next time is my guess. Can his guild build for 11 days? If not he will see SC pulled in front of him as his guild moves out.

It's irrelevant what I donate to another's GB.

Will Jovada's guild be able to build for 11 days? We'll see. What I do know is that the odds of it happening have improved with this change.

 

[Yekk]

It's irrelevant what I donate to another's GB.

Will Jovada's guild be able to build for 11 days? We'll see. What I do know is that the odds of it happening have improved with this change.

How you help your world is relevant. FP is the currency that runs a world. Sitting on your wealth hurts not only those around you but also those removed from you.

Jovada's treasury with his 15 members will now see a hit every league. At 3K an SC a 15 man guild is not viable in 1K. It is for a big guild. His weakest members have an equal chance of getting their ages goods called for. On live my guilds is closing in on a million goods is some ages. No limits on GBG or GvG.

 

[jovada]

That said Jovada is doing well in his D lite but will move to 1K next time is my guess. Can his guild build for 11 days? If not he will see SC pulled in front of him as his guild moves out.

Don't worry about my treasury

 

[Yekk]

Don't worry about my treasury

Few guilds have problems with their high ages but you have Louis which is great. I believe is helping newer players. How is his ages treasury? How about the bigger platinum guilds that have 20 players that are newer to the game? How are those treasuries? The changes needed to help those guilds were not the nerf to attrition free fights we see now. Guilds that cherry pick players may do better but most development guilds will not...

 

[jovada]

How you help your world is relevant. FP is the currency that runs a world. Sitting on your wealth hurts not only those around you but also those removed from you.

You don't have to play as a whale to help your guildies, not that this is really on topic but me and my cofounder we donate about a 6 times a year 1000 fp in a GB of guildmates choice and this on 6 different worlds. And like i said before i think i never did 1000 fights a day

Also me and my cofounder rewards each season in GbG with 100 fp for doiing at least 200 fights and 200 fp for doiing +500 fights for the whole season, so you see it's easy earned even for smaller players

 

[jovada]

Few guilds have problems with their high ages but you have Louis which is great. I believe is helping newer players. How is his ages treasury?

He is the lowest era and that is Modern and there i have about 150k also, In fact i can afford every era with our treasury.
It's a matter of good planning and not spending when nothing is worth it, We only put camps where necessary and not to play with 0 attrition , if that happens in a strategy or by a takeover ok we profit also , but again myself did never above 1000 fights a day