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Feedback Winter Event 2019

KawiKate

Baronet
By actual processing of data feedback do you mean how we pass the feedback along or how the received feedback is dealt with by the developers?
Either, but primarily the latter.
But you are missing a lot in your analogies. You don't see that people are flocking to the restaurant to purchase the new item (you only saw a very few people who registered their dislike). You don't see the crowded theatres. Inno sees those things. They see how many people complete the event, how many drop out. They see how many people place the train in their cities. They see how many cars are placed in cities. And most importantly, they see how many diamonds were bought.
I'm not missing them, however I admit am focusing only on that which I can see. I don't have access to the other data so it would be the height of silliness to try to analyze it. However, if I were to run with what you posted, let's say people do flock to the restaurant to try the new dish. Well, if you refused to interact with the people who sampled it, spat it out, and gargled with mouthwash, then those people flocking to the restaurant probably won't be back to try it again. You might even lose them entirely as a customer. All because of something you could have gotten in front of by speaking to the testers. Of course Inno has access to all the data that we don't and they see the larger picture. What I don't understand is how interaction with the test group is somehow viewed as a negative. IMO it should be a positive thing to be taken in conjunction with the other data you cited. This is why "focus groups" exist in the first place.

Look, I'm not trying to say "Inno must do this" or anything like that. It's a private company and I'm just a consumer. I'm just trying to offer rational, constructive feedback of the cost/benefit analysis of interacting with your test group. I work in product development, and when the company creates a new product we are in constant communication with the customer about what they're looking for, how it's working for them, what can be improved, etc. We then use that interaction to make the best product we can. That doesn't mean you have to do what the focus group says. I sometimes have to tell people that they will not get the result they want. But I do explain why and break it down for them showing the details. My personal opinion (nothing more than my personal opinion) is that it's worthwhile to talk to the people who serve as your test group before going ahead with a large-scale product rollout and it's disappointing that Inno does not do that. It's just my proverbial two cents on the testing structure. That's all.
 

DeletedUser10047

You have your experience, and I have mine. I have participated in live A/B testing for various products (not online). I don't recall ever getting feedback of any sort (other than a "Thank you for participating"). I don't think any of the participants expected the product manufacturer to analyze and respond to feedback on the spot. And after a session of testing, there was no further communication with the manufacturer, but even if the same manufacturer had more testing at a later time, it would have been a different set of participants anyway.

This is more of a continual loop, in that the participants are mostly the same at every stage. It is what it is. You'd like to see things done differently. Inno (for good reason) seems to feel that the current system is working just fine.

In a sense, Inno does give us feedback, even if not directly. The feedback is in the form of the changes they DO make (and yes, they do make changes based on beta feedback), and in the changes they DO NOT make.
 

Hiep Lin

Baronet
The beta world should be used to test the novelties, it is used more and more to avid players to encourage Inno to make the new buildings always more efficient than their first version.

Basically:
1) the building is released in beta version, beta players complain,
2) the improved building is released in final version, the other players also complain !! ;)
 

qaccy

Regent
@KingJase24 You're talking here as if Inno doesn't respond to player feedback, but that's not the case. Like I said earlier to someone else in this thread, you're mistaking them not doing what you want them to do with 'not interacting' with you. Inno's responded that they had no plans to adjust the train cars for example, and explained that they felt it was unnecessary for reasons including not needing a road connection for them. Not agreeing with their reasons and explanations doesn't mean they're not listening to players. Remember, none of us here are in charge of designing the game and have nowhere near final say in what happens to it; not even the ones who spend large amounts of money in the game get to dictate policy here.
 

Dudettas

InnoGames
We are incredibly lucky that on Beta, from time to time we do see the inhouse team pop up for some of the features introduced in the game, particularly when a new mechanic is involved. It should, however, be expected that you see more of me and my team than you would of the in-house team, as this is how it should be. As Community Manager, it's my responsibility to ensure that we are interacting with you, in addition to collecting and forwarding all your feedback.

If you feel I'm not interacting enough with the Beta Community, please send me a private message with your ideas on how I can be interacting more :)
 

KawiKate

Baronet
You have your experience, and I have mine. I have participated in live A/B testing for various products (not online). I don't recall ever getting feedback of any sort (other than a "Thank you for participating"). I don't think any of the participants expected the product manufacturer to analyze and respond to feedback on the spot. And after a session of testing, there was no further communication with the manufacturer, but even if the same manufacturer had more testing at a later time, it would have been a different set of participants anyway.

This is more of a continual loop, in that the participants are mostly the same at every stage. It is what it is. You'd like to see things done differently. Inno (for good reason) seems to feel that the current system is working just fine.

In a sense, Inno does give us feedback, even if not directly. The feedback is in the form of the changes they DO make (and yes, they do make changes based on beta feedback), and in the changes they DO NOT make.
@KingJase24 You're talking here as if Inno doesn't respond to player feedback, but that's not the case. Like I said earlier to someone else in this thread, you're mistaking them not doing what you want them to do with 'not interacting' with you. Inno's responded that they had no plans to adjust the train cars for example, and explained that they felt it was unnecessary for reasons including not needing a road connection for them. Not agreeing with their reasons and explanations doesn't mean they're not listening to players. Remember, none of us here are in charge of designing the game and have nowhere near final say in what happens to it; not even the ones who spend large amounts of money in the game get to dictate policy here.
We are incredibly lucky that on Beta, from time to time we do see the inhouse team pop up for some of the features introduced in the game, particularly when a new mechanic is involved. It should, however, be expected that you see more of me and my team than you would of the in-house team, as this is how it should be. As Community Manager, it's my responsibility to ensure that we are interacting with you, in addition to collecting and forwarding all your feedback.

If you feel I'm not interacting enough with the Beta Community, please send me a private message with your ideas on how I can be interacting more :)
I don't know how many ways to say it. I tried underlining, that doesn't seem to have worked:
My personal opinion (nothing more than my personal opinion)
Apparently stating said opinion has rubbed some people the wrong way (despite the fact that I've repeatedly said it's only my opinion). I'm very sorry for this.

I will also admit that part of it is due to my incredible level of frustration with the Winter Event. I love trains and so when I saw an event based around building a train I was really excited to build the longest train possible in my city. Maybe multiple huge trains next to each other. Would have gladly paid significant money for it. The fact that it won't happen is a tremendous let-down. I've been playing this game for over 3 years and I've never been this disappointed in Innogames (OK, maybe the SA:M GBs are close). I don't dispute that they can do whatever they want and don't owe us an explanation (private company, after all). I'm just bitterly disappointed that I can't build that giant train in my city without significantly hurting it, and we can't even get an explanation as to why they ignored basic math in crafting the event. Again, for the zillionth time, not saying they have to. Just one consumer's opinion on the subject. They did what they did and there's nothing we can do about it.
 
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DeletedUser9403

I've hit "shuffle 4 times out of 10 tries; I'm sorry, but as long as that "shuffle" is there, the winter event will be nothing but GARBAGE, just like the one from last year.
 

xivarmy

Emperor
A forum is not a Christmas list. It is a place to ask questions, make suggestions, discuss.

Although I don't always agree with Inno decisions, I can't say they don't listen to what we say to them. Like in real life, you don't always get to have everybody agree with you, and get what you want.

And I would encourage more players to visit and contribute to the forum.
Well I mean there have been cases in the past where they clearly were just not listening. (example: Crystal Villas in arctic future that were pointed out to them on beta as having too high a pop compared to the diamond houses, went live as is where people deleted their diamond houses for them, and then got emergency fixed later with deleted diamond houses sent to inventory and population readjusted) But for the most part, it probably does come down to a difference in opinion as to what's good for the game - and in recent times they mostly have been more attentive.

Specifically when it comes to events though they have said in the past that not every event is targeted at providing the next best thing ever. That yes that's what some events aim to do but other events may have rewards that are more targeted at the newer player or the more casual player. Hence when it comes to event balance the best advice is if you think it's not worth it, show it by not buying extras at least (or possibly even skipping the event if you think it's that bad). They'll be able to glean from statistics if it was a success or not at what they were trying to accomplish; and if not, some of the feedback may put into focus why and cause adjustments in future events.
 

xivarmy

Emperor
With regard to the unchanged Dining and Freight cars, an attempt at guessing some of the logic to leave them as is:

- the dining car is the best non-set constant attack boost building (that is other than having 1 train, you can just stack dining car after dining car whereas sakura rocks which are better you need to add other multiple other support pieces for each rock you want to add which makes them less single-purpose). There are low age players for whom these buildings make the best attack boost options who have recently been given a reason they may in fact want to focus on getting more attack boost (GBG) where before they may have felt they had more than enough.

- there was in the most recent events a major uproar over having given the abandoned asylum population that people felt they didn't have enough happiness for so many population event buildings. train cars give happiness, rather efficiently at that as they have an additional bonus as well. I've long used Elephant Fountains to cover my happiness as a point of comparison even though their other benefits aren't the most space-efficient. In Mars a double set including half-road takes 49.5 squares and offers 18% attack boost (2.75 squares per %) and 28200 happiness (570/tile). By comparison a train car provides 3950 in 6 (658/tile) (no road needed, just a train which obviously you're going to get 1 at least because the base building is quite good) and 4% in 6 squares (1.5 squares per %). It technically fills the main reason I originally got my elephant fountains better. I'm still not going to replace them with dining cars because since then I've come to appreciate the coin and supply boost I'm gaining from my fountains too but I can see why someone might. This can also be used to explain why the sleigh builder can be so much better than the freight car in goods production but someone still might want a freight car - because they need the happiness.

- then there's the reason they might be afraid to say: because of recent new servers in every region and upheaval in terms of game activity thanks to GBG there's a lot of people looking to get some event prizes that change how their city runs. They may be willing to spend for things that aren't their ideal options now and then spend again later to replace them. This might make now a good time for a "bad" event.
 

DeletedUser8908

is there any observatory plan in this winter event ??
i cant find them in my french server :(
 

Gab in Beta

Merchant
I would like an official answer to this statement from the fb page.
The statement says that after 9 reindeers the collection is free and not payed by 2995 diamonds.
I havent reached yet the 9 reindeers in live world, but when the event was on beta, 2995 were still required to collect this special offer.
thanksfb forge reindeer.jpg
 

DeletedUser9548

Make sure you eat something before you board my husband’s train. Zeus decided it would cost too much to supply passengers with food and have to clean up the dining car when they finish eating. Sooooo, if you just need a nice relaxing sleep, and don’t mind the shaking and clicking sound a train makes on tracks, hop aboard the Night Train. I could use a long rest after this event.

As you board you will hear the conductor say,
Sorry, we have no snacks and no bars.
Only rest and relaxation aboard our train's sleeping cars.
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.
 

qaccy

Regent
@Hera That's what I did too! One train with 28 sleeping cars attached to it. I now have a bunch of other trains as well to attach any other spare cars to.
 

Gab in Beta

Merchant
eeem . more printscreens right now. Comments where made 5-6-7 days ago. still there
my live server community managers know less for the game than us the players, thats why I ll keep coming to this forum
And no need to apologies for Inno's fb manager . . :)

FB forge reindeer2.jpgFB forge reindeer3.jpg
 
Dear Dudettas and whomever else it may concern,

I believe, there is something seriosly askew about your understanding of the term feedback reflected in your usage of the term.

Allow me to provide some context:
Please understand that a lack of response doesn't mean that you are not being listened to. Sometimes it isn't appropriate to feedback as it may influence how an event plays out, in the same way that we try to avoid confirming in advance Daily Specials or upcoming Grand Prizes as it would influence behaviour in the way stars are spent with that knowledge.

This does not mean that your feedback is not hugely valued, and as I've said before, I regularly feed back on all of the comments in the feedback threads, it's just sometimes I don't have answers for you.
Your feedback has been noted on this subject, but I don't have any further information for you at this time.
Thank you for your feedback. I'm sorry you feel that we haven't responded in a timely manner. Please don't think that your feedback is not being listened to, but it should also be noted that we can't respond to all players concerns and react accordingly to each individual request. [...]
[...] Our role on Beta is to provide constructive feedback on the Event, [...]
Please don't think you are being ignored, there's still plenty of end of Event feedback to be fed back to the Development Team, as we are seeing already on the forums.
Understand that a lack of response per definition means: there's no feedback.
Feedback does not equal feed back. There is no such thing as 'your feedback' (to us) and no 'our feedback' (to you), this would be like saying 'your conversation to us' and 'our conversation to you', they are all one and the same.
To feed sth back is a response, the feedback, however, also short for 'feedback loop', is a process, like a conversation, of continually responding to the other, you cannot interchange those terms because one (the response) describes the ball while the other (feedback) is the name of a specific ballgame with specific rules. The rules are not in the ball.

The reason why you constantly have to repeat yourself is, you violating the rules you do not seem to understand.

I'll make this simple: Your employers want information from us and as their agent it is your job to make us volunteer it here. If you stop your side of the feedback loop by being silent, you are neglecting your job because you break the loop. If information trickles in nonetheless, I would call it a blessing and the good will of one side.

Now, this is the complicated part and it can't be helped: I, and probably many of us, know that you can't tell us everything -- but the loop and the universal laws of logic don't care. You'll have to keep the loop closed while providing enough truth the loop won't devolve into nonsense, while also keeping the sensible bits of data a.k.a. spoilers out of it.
Figure it out.
The best of luck and, much more importantly: self-awareness! :)