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Implemented User defined FP amount in GB donation window

  • Thread starter DeletedUser7855
  • Start date

DeletedUser7779

But let's look at a game design/balance perspective - this will mean more 'stealing' positions, and less gradual contribution. Why should I contribute 10 FPs a day to a GB, when I can never secure a position because at any time you can sweep in with a single click and drop 3K FPs? Since your donations are now just a single click, you'll be taking higher spots in more GBs and I will be taking less. The divide between you and me will keep growing over time (which would be fine if it was parallel with the amount of effort we put in, but this is not the case here). You're benefiting from the change, I'm harmed by it, so it doesn't affect everyone the same way.
Why more stealing positions? The steal positions will be the same as now, it will just take less time to contribute the fps.
Even now i can steal your spot if I wanted, unless you're watching the GB at the very same time. If you're not watching, why would you care if I needed 1 or 10 minutes to donate the fps? ;)

People would also be spending more time to partake in GB contributions and hoard FP packages for easier stealing of positions (& thus gaining even more FP packages to steal even more positions) and less time on anything else in the game. Meaning not only will use of other features drop down, but it will shift the whole focus of the game in a different direction.
Lots of people are doing this already, so I really don't think it'd change that much. Sorry, but Inno should have thought of this before releasing the Arc. They gave us a game breaking GB, and what they thought we wouldn't exploit it best we can? ;) Not our fault here.

@Whiskey-s
With all due respect, are we talking only about time here?
Then:
while the mentioned 10 minutes, i could be able to donate to 100GBs
i don't have to skip those, which give less than 10% profit, because it takes no time to take those places too
profit could reach thousands of FPs daily in much shorter time
If you can find 100 GBs a day from which you can profit, then you've already wasted a lot of time searching for those GBs.. Note, that even if you don't bother to spend a few mins for "only" 10% profit, someone else would. So in the end, that spot will be taken regardless, someone will get the reward, it won't get lost. With the new proposal, the profit will be scored by whoever spots the GB first. Why is that so bad?

most GBs could be levelled almost for free between the 25th and 60th lvls (some would give FPs on each lvl too what helps a lot)
with the easy profit, no problem to spend to your own GBs
reaching the 60th lvl in the 6 most important GBs in 20minutes will solve all your problems forever in the game
Again, are we talking only about time here? if it was so easy to get your GBs to lvl 60, people would have done it by now even if they needed to spend a whole day! Your statement is wrong, time is not the issue here. Issue is finding that "super team" of 90% Arcs willing to contribute to your GB at the same time.

A guildie power pushed their Atlantis from lvl 1 to 10 a few weeks ago. Took us about 15 mins to do it. Why do you care so much if we could have done it in 5? We would have done it either way!
Plus, like others mentioned, if you donate all FPs at once, you're missing out on the rewards from cycling quests. So it does come with a cost.
If this gets released, I actually think most people would donate FPs in chunks of 139 fps (for OF cycling quests), so for 2000 fps we'd need about 15 clicks. So it won't be in 1 if that speed donating bothers you so much.
 

Tanmay11

Regent
the number of clicks this game needs is just ridiculous......and people opposing this idea in the name "strategy" is a big joke.:rolleyes: there is no strategy/sense in clicking hundreds of times if it could be done in just 2.

If Mot/Pol system can be improved from the manual version to the current version. then the Gb window can be improved as well.
i remember people complaining about the new aid system when it was released. they even threatened to quit lol
now no one complains....
 

DeletedUser1283

OK, i'll help you a little. :D

FP donations:
......i don't even bother donating 150 for 10 profit, many times 1000+ FPs for 100 profit
spending 1000FPs takes at least 10 minutes now
........
i could be able to donate to 100GBs...
Whisky-s in your beta city you have a lighthouse L1 as you only GB. you are certainly not donating 1000's of FP's to GB's here.

the number of clicks this game needs is just ridiculous......and people opposing this idea in the name "strategy" is a big joke.:rolleyes: there is no strategy/sense in clicking hundreds of times if it could be done in just 2.

If Mot/Pol system can be improved from the manual version to the current version. then the Gb window can be improved as well.
i remember people complaining about the new aid system when it was released. they even threatened to quit lol
now no one complains....
Agreed 100%, This is one on the most silly discussions i have ever seen here.

It is not in the game interests to make a player click 300 times to donate 3000 FP, the reason being it that new players start to understand that the game is nothing more than a click fest and they leave to find a game where theres less clicking for clicking sake and more game time. No player enjoys having to click 300 times and its not even the point of the game - its a horrid waste of a players time when the game is about fighting and city building.
Please stop putting forward ideas that clicking 300 times is a good thing, in no game in the world would a player see this as good when its not the main purpose of the game.
 

DeletedUser5429

That's why i write, you don't know the machanism what we use and cannot imagine how these things work... If you would be one of the first players in this game who started to work together in a group on levelling up the members' GBs you would never suggest an idea like this, because you would know exactly how hard is this work and how huge are efforts wich are needed to reach those lvls what we already did! You just want to get them and give them to everybody for free, without efforts!
By the way, I am the 12th player on beta, have rather high GBs, I do belong to such groups as you are talking about, and I know how hard it is.
 

thephantom

InnoGames
Why more stealing positions? The steal positions will be the same as now, it will just take less time to contribute the fps.
Even now i can steal your spot if I wanted, unless you're watching the GB at the very same time. If you're not watching, why would you care if I needed 1 or 10 minutes to donate the fps? ;)
I don't need to be watching a GB, I can spot contributions more easily when it takes a longer time to do them. It also means you can achieve less such 'stealing' positions per day when it takes longer to do it because your time is limited. Yes you can steal a position even now, no one said otherwise. :) But it's quite clear it'd be a more common occurrence if it was easier to do it (that's what is accomplished by making these thousands-donations one click).


Lots of people are doing this already, so I really don't think it'd change that much. Sorry, but Inno should have thought of this before releasing the Arc. They gave us a game breaking GB, and what they thought we wouldn't exploit it best we can? ;) Not our fault here.
'Lots of people are doing this already' is not a valid reason for a game change (or a change of any kind in general, but yeah), in my honest opinion. Lots of players try to use push accounts, should we also make that easier? There is nothing about 'fault' here. You're saying that a game feature is being 'exploited as best as it can be' - if this refers to it being used as best as it currently works, I don't see what the issue is there?

But that is not the topic, as you are proposing a change to an existing system. My points above are to show that in doing so you're not considering the whole effect of it. You're taking the Aiding system change as an example, so let's compare the two things, shall we?

Previous Aid (manual motivation) -> Takes several to a couple seconds to do per person, lets you choose which which building is motivated/polished which can help you narrow down the era of Great Building blueprints you're looking for.
Current Aid (semi-automatic) -> Takes a single second to do per person, doesn't let you pick the building age.
Result: Every player benefits from the change, but amount of time spent on Aiding is still proportional to the number of actions (if you want to aid 140 friends it will take more time than aiding 1 friend). You also 'lose' something by going the easy route (the ability to choose the age of a building).

Current FP Donations -> Takes a second to spend 10 FPs. If you want to spend a lot more, the time to do increases proportionally with the action.
Proposed FP Donation -> Takes a second to spend as many FPs as you want. Time to spend 10K FPs is the same as spending 10 FPs.
Result: Change favours those with high FP amounts already stocked, or with the possibility to stock them. The rest of the players can fall behind because it takes much more time to accomplish anything remotely close to what the first group can do.

These two are not comparable, because the effect/result from both is different. If you want to compare it, having the possibility to Aid everyone with one click would be much more similar. This then would mean that Aiding 140 people takes the same amount of time as Aiding 1 person (while the game would be processing -a lot- more requests). There would literally be no reason to have less friends (such as not having the time to help them out).

It is not in the game interests to make a player click 300 times to donate 3000 FP, the reason being it that new players start to understand that the game is nothing more than a click fest and they leave to find a game where theres less clicking for clicking sake and more game time. No player enjoys having to click 300 times and its not even the point of the game - its a horrid waste of a players time when the game is about fighting and city building.
Please stop putting forward ideas that clicking 300 times is a good thing, in no game in the world would a player see this as good when its not the main purpose of the game.
The proposed changes here affect new players the least of all, especially when it comes to the positive sides of it. I've started new accounts on new worlds recently, trust me there's no issue in spending FPs.

More clicking isn't better, but no clicking isn't better either. Why not jot remove all clicks and watch the game play itself automatically? :) We're not talking about more clicks for no reason (which would be bad, I would agree on that), we're talking about more clicks to achieve more.

Anyway, I'm not really here to argue contra/pro any changes, so I'll stop my text walls there. Just asking you to consider how the change might affect the game in all possible ways - it often provides a good way to see why something might not be implemented, and what alternative ideas might work better.
 
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DeletedUser7779

I think you're all missing a point here. You sound like there's an unlimited amount of GBs which are just sitting there and waiting to be jumped and thus resulting in an infinite profit. But cmon how many GBs are we talking about seriously? 10 per day? 20? I don't think it's more than 20. I could do easily do 20 a day even now. Would it really hurt if the amount of clicks is reduced for the sake of enjoying the game more?

@Whiskey-s your last post makes no sense. We're not suggesting to make something easier, we're suggesting to make it quicker. So again, we're talking only about time here.

@Darkstar as much as I like you, I'll have to disagree. The change will NOT favor those with lots of packs stocked more than it does now. Players with high Arcs who have plenty of fps in inventory already HAVE a huge advantage over those who don't. That is why I said Arc is exploited best it can. Which is absolutely fine, I should have done it earlier lol. But If you have a 10fp/day swap with someone and you get jumped, would you care who did it? Whiskey-s wouldn't bother to jump you for a small profit but someone else with a high Arc would. So in the end a high Arc will steal your spot, does it really matter to you if they spent 1 or 10 mins clicking?
 

thephantom

InnoGames
I think you're all missing a point here. You sound like there's an unlimited amount of GBs which are just sitting there and waiting to be jumped and thus resulting in an infinite profit. But cmon how many GBs are we talking about seriously? 10 per day? 20? I don't think it's more than 20. I could do easily do 20 a day even now. Would it really hurt if the amount of clicks is reduced for the sake of enjoying the game more?
Just to clarify, in case it wasn't clear in my previous posts - I have no issue with making it easier to contribute Forge Points (which can be done for example by having buttons to spend more FPs at once, like 50 FPs), I have an issue with the ability to input amounts at will (the initial suggestion). :)

@Darkstar as much as I like you, I'll have to disagree. The change will NOT favor those with lots of packs stocked more than it does now. Players with high Arcs who have plenty of fps in inventory already HAVE a huge advantage over those who don't. That is why I said Arc is exploited best it can. Which is absolutely fine, I should have done it earlier lol. But If you have a 10fp/day swap with someone and you get jumped, would you care who did it? Whiskey-s wouldn't bother to jump you for a small profit but someone else with a high Arc would. So in the end a high Arc will steal your spot, does it really matter to you if they spent 1 or 10 mins clicking?
You say it is Arc players who benefit in the end, and we know they already get lots of benefits from their donations to GBs. A change like this would make it easier for those players to spend their FPs. So I'm going back to my previous point - if we're saying there is already a divide where Arc players have bigger profits, should that divide be made even bigger in their favour by making contributions super easy? I guess that's just something we'll have to agree to disagree on.
 

DeletedUser7855

If it has 0 strategy or 0 gameplay, it would mean it's currently useless. :p It's not though. The mechanic is what makes the strategy/gameplay, the interface itself can only make it easier or more difficult (or more or less enjoyable). For the most part the interface doesn't have any particular effect on it because either the GB level doesn't need a ton of FPs or you simply aren't trying to donate a ton of FPs at once.
Many players has already reached OF and i am sure, they will research all OF2 techs in one day. The only thing they could now do is FP exchange. Call it as you want, but clicking on the same button 1000 times is not a strategy and nobody enjoys it

When it comes to bots/scripts, if 1000 clicks to donate 3K FPs is a vulnerability for bots/scripts, what does that make donating 300000000K FPs with 1000 clicks? :D Making it easier won't make attempts at cheating go away, and with the action made easier it will only make it more appealing.
Good argument, bro. Let's decrease the quantity of FP per click from 10 to 1!


If you and I both donate these 1000 FPs together at once in a GB that has less available FPs in its level, then the game needs to process these requests smoothly. Consider now that quite a large number of players may be doing that at the same time, so indirectly it could have an impact on any ingame action.
Just compare this 2 scenarios:
1) current gameplay: 100 players donate 100 FPs each in a GB that has 100 available FPs in its level
2) gameplay with custom FP qty: 100 players donate 1000 FPs each in a GB that has 1000 available FPs in its level
So what impact do you mean?

But let's look at a game design/balance perspective - this will mean more 'stealing' positions, and less gradual contribution. Why should I contribute 10 FPs a day to a GB, when I can never secure a position because at any time you can sweep in with a single click and drop 3K FPs?
Bad news, bro: players contributing 10 FPs a day can't secure a position even in the current system :D

Just to clarify: players are complaining about thousands of clicks which makes gameplay stupid and boring. And you are trying to explain us that is some kind of very cool gameplay with strategy and tactics in it. Funny :D

Good job inno, as always..
 

DeletedUser7855

And we still didn't talk about the profitable GBs and the daily search for them, it takes a lot of time, but donating takes more even if you have many competitors with high Arc, and all players spend more and more for less profit time to time to avoid losing the place, that's why you have to plan where to donate, where to spend your time. If it's too hard to understand that time-management means strategy too, then i cannot help you more...
You are right, time-management means some strategy too. But why are you thinking that with new system you will spend less time for searching for profitable GBs? I think, there will be more competition. And competition always means finding new tactics and introduces some kind of social interaction.
 

Tanmay11

Regent
Thanks, i don't need a new competition while my Frontenac will become trash. :D I built my strategy on that. Nobody is forced to donate to GBs! This is NOT a main part of the game, if you don't like it, don't do it!
But me and many others who enjoy this part of the game, thinking always about better and more effective groups etc. would find it very unfair and ridiculous that simply lazy players will reach high lvls while we had to work for those very hard! You simply don't deserve to reach these lvls because you don't want to take efforts for that, and want to spend no time with that!
I really don't understand why are you here? Why do you play this game if this is so boring for you with the endless clicking!? Quit playing FoE, but don't try to ruin others' fun just because you can't find a good challange in this well made system! GvG is already dead, i stopped playing that months ago. And you want to kill this part of the game too, taking away the last interesting and challanging thing!
If levelling GBs doesn't need strategy, it's just boring clicking and everybody will do that anyway, why do many players whine about the GE, why didn't they levelled their attacking GBs in an afternoon to lvl 60 already etc? I will answer this for you all! Because you need a good team of good plyers, a well working system, lot of time, organizing, hunting for profit to be able to donate 10K to each of your team members at the same time and i could continue all day long! And these aren't easy things! And instead of trying to organize a better group and evolving in this game, you simply want to make everything easier, quicker, because then you don't have to do anything but would get everything. Again, why are you playing with a strategy game if you don't want to handle challanges?
And once more, if this isn't your problem, but you are simply find this part of the game boring, then don't care about it like i do about gvg, but don't want to ruin or kill the game for those who want to play it as it is now!!! So hard to understand? I can't believe you think what you want is normal and would make the game better and would be fair with those who spent time and made efforts to reach what you want to reach with 10 clicks...
I wrote exact numbers above! Anybody could easily make 200lvls is 20 minutes and FPs won't be problem! In my main world there're almost 50 Arcs above 80% boost, 40 at least on lvl 80, so at 90% and even more are under construction! All these players could do what i wrote above in very short time, because the GBs are for free for about 35lvls for the owner! Only time makes that impossible to reach this goal in a day! Now everybody has a chance to do the quests and get good staff so donating takes a lot of time, and the most players can't be here for 10 hours a day so the game would remain a game for the upcoming months too!
I'm very disappointed you still can't understand the situation and because of simple lazyness you want to kill the last interesting thing in the game...
you're forgetting that a lot of players that have supported this idea themselves have lvl 80 arc and gbs of similar level. calling us lazy and BS stuff, making personal attacks, wont make it true. we know what effort it takes to reach those lvls.

and the point here is NOT about ORGANIZING which you keep repeating in these posts lol:rolleyes:....we already have these groups levelling each others gb. we are putting in all the effort. so stop pretending that only you can organize things!!!,

 

DeletedUser5429

OK, i want 300K fighs easily! Would you please suggest a button for 1000fights for me please? I deserve that if you deserve the chance to lvl up your GBs easily! What's the difference?
Your analogy is wrong.

A better one would be to have an efficient army management, not taking two minutes to load.
That would make fights quicker to do, but as much strategic as they are now.

If we compare to GvG, a good comparison would be to reduce its lag, thus making it easier for people to play GvG. I'm not sure even you would say that the lag on GvG is a good way to sort worthy people who are ready to spend hours on lag from unworthy ones who don't find it funny.

I worked a lot with my GBs, sure i don't want others to have that for free. :D You would be happy if you work a lot and after that your colleauge will get the same rewards without working even the half of yours??? Or at school when your classmate would get the same grade without working on the project with you? Are you kidding? :D :D
That is what you don't understand : YES, I would be happy, because it would be easier for me too.
And because, without bragging, I know I am better at levelling my GBs than them, so in truth I am not afraid of that kind of competition.
 
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thephantom

InnoGames
@dobruykot You missed all the points I made, bro. :) As I've said - I'm not here to discuss those, just noting all the different points that are always ignored when someone starts a new thread with this idea. It's not me you have to convince, so I suggest reading them carefully, considering how they will affect the game as a whole.

You all enjoy your weekend now. :)
 

DeletedUser7779

@dobruykot It's not me you have to convince, so I suggest reading them carefully, considering how they will affect the game as a whole.
So who do we have to convince? Whiskey-s?;)
Seriously, is there any chance this idea gets passed to the devs? Possibly with slight modifications also? (see below)

Just to clarify, in case it wasn't clear in my previous posts - I have no issue with making it easier to contribute Forge Points (which can be done for example by having buttons to spend more FPs at once, like 50 FPs), I have an issue with the ability to input amounts at will (the initial suggestion). :)
Now that is a good alternative :)Not exactly what we wanted but definitely better than the current system. Please note, that our idea was only proposing to reduce the number of clicks. So any change in that direction would be a step forward. But maybe 100 at once will be better ;)
You say it is Arc players who benefit in the end, and we know they already get lots of benefits from their donations to GBs. A change like this would make it easier for those players to spend their FPs. So I'm going back to my previous point - if we're saying there is already a divide where Arc players have bigger profits, should that divide be made even bigger in their favour by making contributions super easy? I guess that's just something we'll have to agree to disagree on.
Hmmm but even if the proposed change makes the gap between players with high and low Arcs bigger, this is not necessarily bad.
Following your logic faster contribution to GBs --> eventually more GBs leveled --> more FPs flow. Wasn't that Inno's idea in the first place? More actively used FPs instead of banking them in inventory. That is why they dumped the packs from GE and treasure hunt, right? More FP flow = more player interaction. Just like in stock markets, we always want more liquidity.
Yes, players with high Arcs will eventually stockpile more packs, but how would that hurt someone who doesn't do jumps at all? There comes a point where it's irrelevant if someone had 5K or 10K packs in inventory.

Thanks, i don't need a new competition while my Frontenac will become trash. :D I built my strategy on that.
Why would you say that? Even if the change gets released you can always use the "old" system and not donate all FPs at once so you complete the cycling quests.
Only case when you'd screwed is if you and someone else would donate at the same and the other one dumps their FPs at once. But how often will that happen?

The fact that you're talking about 10-20 GBs a day shows the problem. Only in our small group there're at least 30-50 messages a day, and in many of those a member asks for probably 4!!! GBs at a time!
Read carefully. I was talking about about 20 GBs from which you can profit. Not guldies asking you to put your break even on theirs. Trust me, in my main world I'm in a top guild and am getting tons of those messages too.
 

BetaTest03

considering how they will affect the game as a whole.
like the developers ?
screwing the game with 90% reward boost on levels that give 30% (and more) reward like Arc and InnoTower in levels 35-70

A change like this would make it easier for those players to spend their FPs. So I'm going back to my previous point - if we're saying there is already a divide where Arc players have bigger profits, should that divide be made even bigger in their favour by making contributions super easy?
the developers wanted those HUGE profits
(or don't know how to use math and calculate things before they made the bonus the Arc)

in short:
complain to the developers if you think the advantage of the Arc is too high
but don't waste our time with forcing us to donate in 10 FP steps instead of all at once

Edit: NormaJeane - 2017-05-14 - removed a disrespectful reference
 
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Retired Community Manager

Can we all please keep on topic, remain calm, offer productive suggestions and stop arguing with each other. As everything here is basically player's opinions, there is no right or wrong, just ideas.
What's important is discussing all the sides and coming to some sort of consensus that is generally agreed upon. That is something I can pass to the dev team for consideration. Though at the moment we seem have a way to go before that happens :)
 

ncshsg

Viceroy
Can we all please keep on topic, remain calm, offer productive suggestions and stop arguing with each other. As everything here is basically player's opinions, there is no right or wrong, just ideas.
What's important is discussing all the sides and coming to some sort of consensus that is generally agreed upon. That is something I can pass to the dev team for consideration. Though at the moment we seem have a way to go before that happens :)
That was the post I had been waiting to read for days now :).
 

Retired Community Manager

It's very hard to keep calm when some guys because of simple lazyness
In your opinion. Wanting more convenience does not inherently mean someone is lazy. Just as agreeing or not agreeing with you does not make someone inherently right or wrong. This is Beta, we have room for debates from both sides. In fact, we encourage them, but let's all play nice ;)
 

DeletedUser5429

Can we all please keep on topic, remain calm, offer productive suggestions and stop arguing with each other. As everything here is basically player's opinions, there is no right or wrong, just ideas.
What's important is discussing all the sides and coming to some sort of consensus that is generally agreed upon. That is something I can pass to the dev team for consideration. Though at the moment we seem have a way to go before that happens :)
Well, I can think of some ways to make things more efficient for the players:
1. user defined amount of FPs (that which we were discussing here)
2. have the new GB window like it was before the reintroduction of a delay between each click
3. have the new GB window with a delay between each click
4. create a 50 or 100 FPs pack, or both

1. does seem to break some game mechanics. Not that this is a real problem, a new balance will settle
2. was very efficient to put FPs quickly but seem to cause some trouble if we believe what was said to us
3. is better than the old window but still quite inefficient
4. along with proposal 3, would be quite efficient, but we never had any answer on that.