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Discussion Spend FPs vs RoI, open your eyes!

Dessire

Baronet
I have read how some people have said that certain GB, which requires 29500 fp to have it at level 80, doesn't worth the space and the FPs and build SoKs lvl 2 is a better option.

I am here not to discuss that but to tell you something about a lie you may be living until today.

It is not about the amount of FPs you spend to level up certain GB and the amount of time you must wait until have the RoI, it is about the time it takes to you to level up 1 level any GBuilding.


Does it really matter if you generate 500M of FPs per day and in order to level up X GBuilding 1 level you must spend those 500M of FPs?
In this example, the amount of time you must wait to level up 1 level is 1 day, despite the 500M of FPs. Even if that level means 1 extra FP, even if you must wait 500 millions of days to have a RoI, you are already generating 1 extra FP. in 10 days, that will be 10 FP, compared to another player who has decided not build and level up that GB, you will have 10 extra FPs in 10 days.

Now a real example:
If that certain GBuilding which requires 29500 FPs to have it at 80, gives you an average of 45FPs per day at that level, with a production of 1000 FP per day , for example, you will need 29,5 days to have it at level 80. After that period of time your production will be 1045 FP, after 10 days = 10450 FPs, without building it = 10000 fps after 10 days, compared to a person who has decided to not build it, you'll receive 450 extra FPs after 10 days if you have it at 80.


More FPs per day = less days you'll require to level up 1 level of any GB.


If a person decides to build SoKs at level 2 instead, yeah, for sure that person will receive extra FPs without spending 29500 fps but! the difference will be, extra buildings to be motivated, extra space used with roads, not upgradeable buildings and less FPs per day.

It is not about the amount of FPs you spend , It is about the time you need to level up one level, it is about the amount of FPs you produce per day to upgadre any GBuilding faster.
I would preffer spend 29500 FPs to produce 45 extra FPs as soon as possible instead of build event buildings which require more roads, more motivations and can't be upgradeable. This is the reason why more and more people build and level up GBs like HSophia to level 80. While they produce 48 extra FPS per day, being able to level up faster other GBs you are still with a deficit of 48 FP per day. (also don't forget that is more easy and does it worth a lot more have a huge building conected by one road instrad of have many little buildings producing since the first day solid, not modifiable amount of FPs.
 

CrashBoom

Emperor
actually the real question is
WHAT ELSE

and I am not talking about a lousy SoK lvl 2.

what else would you do with the 29500 FP if you don't level up that GB
and is that more worth to do

if you have something better to do with those 29500 FP. do that
if not: there is your answer. level that GB up

I leveled up the Galata to 70 in my live world
is that worth the FP. no. with the plundered FP since I am playing I couldn't even reach level 10
is it worth to see a repelled plunder? YES. punch in your face. stupid plunderer. it is not always about FP profit. but about having fun

If a person decides to build SoKs at level 2 instead, yeah, for sure that person will receive extra FPs without spending 29500 fps but
but WHAT ELSE will he do with those 29500 FP ?

Does it really matter if you generate 500M of FPs per day and in order to level up X GBuilding 1 level you must spend those 500M of FPs?
In this example, the amount of time you must wait to level up 1 level is 1 day, despite the 500M of FPs. Even if that level means 1 extra FP, even if you must wait 500 millions of days to have a RoI, you are already generating 1 extra FP. in 10 days, that will be 10 FP, compared to another player who has decided not build and level up that GB, you will have 10 extra FPs in 10 days.
if you have those FP WHAT ELSE would you do with those FP if you won't level up that GB ?
 
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1BFA

Baronet
I have read how some people have said that certain GB, which requires 29500 fp to have it at level 80, doesn't worth the space and the FPs and build SoKs lvl 2 is a better option.

I am here not to discuss that but to tell you something about a lie you may be living until today.

It is not about the amount of FPs you spend to level up certain GB and the amount of time you must wait until have the RoI, it is about the time it takes to you to level up 1 level any GBuilding.


Does it really matter if you generate 500M of FPs per day and in order to level up X GBuilding 1 level you must spend those 500M of FPs?
In this example, the amount of time you must wait to level up 1 level is 1 day, despite the 500M of FPs. Even if that level means 1 extra FP, even if you must wait 500 millions of days to have a RoI, you are already generating 1 extra FP. in 10 days, that will be 10 FP, compared to another player who has decided not build and level up that GB, you will have 10 extra FPs in 10 days.

Now a real example:
If that certain GBuilding which requires 29500 FPs to have it at 80, gives you an average of 45FPs per day at that level, with a production of 1000 FP per day , for example, you will need 29,5 days to have it at level 80. After that period of time your production will be 1045 FP, after 10 days = 10450 FPs, without building it = 10000 fps after 10 days, compared to a person who has decided to not build it, you'll receive 450 extra FPs after 10 days if you have it at 80.


More FPs per day = less days you'll require to level up 1 level of any GB.


If a person decides to build SoKs at level 2 instead, yeah, for sure that person will receive extra FPs without spending 29500 fps but! the difference will be, extra buildings to be motivated, extra space used with roads, not upgradeable buildings and less FPs per day.

It is not about the amount of FPs you spend , It is about the time you need to level up one level, it is about the amount of FPs you produce per day to upgadre any GBuilding faster.
I would preffer spend 29500 FPs to produce 45 extra FPs as soon as possible instead of build event buildings which require more roads, more motivations and can't be upgradeable. This is the reason why more and more people build and level up GBs like HSophia to level 80. While they produce 48 extra FPS per day, being able to level up faster other GBs you are still with a deficit of 48 FP per day. (also don't forget that is more easy and does it worth a lot more have a huge building conected by one road instrad of have many little buildings producing since the first day solid, not modifiable amount of FPs.

Some ppl like ranking points ...they have plenty of fp to spend...so why not spend on a gb and score points?
 

Max Shadow

Farmer
I agree, everything is not about ROI for each FP spent, specially in this game...
on my Live account, I am leveling up my Arc, it costs a fortune... when will I see the ROI for the million of FP spent??? most probably never...
but because my Arc is already now at a high level I can immediately help my guild-mates, friends by investing more than 1.9... this is my ROI ;)
 
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There are only three (3) things to do with FPs:
  • Invest them on GBs (own GBs / prepare positions for 1.9 threads, invest at guildmates / friends GBs, snipe at neighbors' GBs, etc.)
  • Unlock Technologies at Research Tree.
  • Pay for non guild trades
Am I missing other use? Not counting leave the FP packs at the Inventory.

Completing an Era requires much less than 29500 FPs. so, after research is done (if there is no more technologies to unlock, no new era released, or if player decision is to stop research advancing for now), then the best thing to do with FPs is to invest them on GBS. Just define / organize your current priorities and select the best GB(s) that will help to achieve that and level up.
 
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Now, on space usage and ROI: Define available alternatives, calculate all benefits and costs, then select best option aligned to your priorities.

Option 0: Null alternative, Do nothing, leave that space empty.
  • No additional costs, just the space expansions costs (which are the same for all alternatives and out of the analysis).
  • No benefit from an empty space. No FPs, goods, coins or any other resource gained from an empty space.
Option 1: Use the space for FP production using Level 2 SoKs (or other more efficient FP Producing Event Building)
  • Costs of Level 2 SoKs (or other more efficient FP Producing Special / Event Building)
  • Cost of required roads (dependant on road type/era selected and number of road pieces)
  • Benefit in terms of FPs produced per day,
    • Depends on # of SOks (or selected other building) built in defined space, and assuming daily collection 7 days per week.
  • Any additional resource produced by the buildings used? Amount of benefit may increase by Era.
    • SOKs gives coins and marginal population, amount of coins depends on Era.
    • If using other Special/Event Building calculate value of applicable rewards goods, coins, Attack %, etc.
Option 2: Use the space for a GB, and level it up maximize rewards (benefits), say up to level 80th. costs in terms of goods required plus FPs.
  • GB building costs: Goods plus FPs for Level 0
  • Cost of FPs for each level until goal of Level 80
  • Benefits in terms of FP production (depends on GB(s) selected which increase by level)
    • Assuming daily collection and current level of GB.
    • consider time to level up to 80thy
  • Additional benefits from 2nd reward of GB (if applicable).
    • Assuming daily collection and current level of GB.
    • consider increment of benefit as GB levels up.
Analysis:
1. Discard option 0, no benefit.
2. Compare Costs vs Benefits of Options 1 & 2 during the period required to level the GB up to level 80
3. Consider Benefits/Costs of the period with GB at level 80 vs remaining with constant FP Production using SoKs at Level 2.
4. Select best option.
 
I dont understand the meaning of ROI XD
My real city makes more than 1000fp daily, and i dont have hagia sophia, and i dont want it. There are more things to build that gives you more things than this GB.
 
Return on Investment (ROI) is a performance metric of an investment, used to compare several investment options to select the best one(s) or to judge if the investment is acceptable. For example, business companies may have a rule or policy to only invest in an alternative if the ROI is above a certain limit.
ROI is calculated as: ROI = Investment Net Profit (or Loss) / Costs. The higher the ROI, the better the investment performance.

If for example, if analyzing the decision of building Hagia Sophia vs Castle Del Monte the benefits (profit) and the costs of each building must be determined. A value must be defined for the space required by each one, for the attack boost that Castle Del Monte gives, and for the Happiness benefit that HS provides in order to be able to sum all benefits and costs for the ROI calculation.
 
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Emberguard

Regent
The simplest Return Of Interest metric is just the cost to level VS daily FPs gained if you never turned over a profit. But in reality you're also going to be able to reinvest those daily FPs into gaining additional FPs you wouldn't have had from the collection. So the ROI is a bit harder to calculate properly once you factor in sniping / taking positions on other players GBs

Now if your entire goal in the game is get from Bronze Age to Space Age X in the shortest time possible and then quit you might not want to bother with certain GBs. But if you simply intend to play then it is worth considering GBs based on whether you can use the benefit rather then how long it'd take to get back your investment
 

xivarmy

Emperor
I dont understand the meaning of ROI XD
My real city makes more than 1000fp daily, and i dont have hagia sophia, and i dont want it. There are more things to build that gives you more things than this GB.
For a building that *only* is being levelled to make more FP, ROI time is used to evaluate whether or not it's worth it. I.e. if it takes 6 months for your fully levelled Cape to pay off your levelling cost for it, then 6 months later it's "paid off" and everything it generates you from then on is profit. Before then it's still just an investment.

What an acceptable ROI time is is up for debate. If you're still developing your city to have some of the basics you want, you probably don't want to make multi-year ROI investments for only FP. If they give you FP as well as something else you want (such as CdM with attack bonus or AO with crit) then that might make them a priority to do sooner rather than later. If you've got everything you want and are a filthy ranking point farmer, you might be fine with a 10 year ROI as you'll also gain ranking points in the process and more efficiently than some other investments.

There's also refinements on it to take into account other details: i.e. Footprint: if you have an advanced city full of good event buildings and are considering placing a new building, what would you have there instead - what that alternate buildings requiring no FP investment would produce can be deducted from what the new building produces, which will drag out the ROI time.
 
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Thanks for the explanations. Now i undestand the post.
In my opinion, ROI with GB doesnt have any sense. The best way to improve your city are the event buildings. We use fp to level up usefull gb, but over level 80, the cost of leveling are too much for the value upgrading you take.