• Dear forum reader,
    To actively participate in our forum discussions or to start your own threads, in addition to your game account you need a forum account. You can
    REGISTER HERE!
    Please ensure a translation in to English is provided if your post is not in English and to respect your fellow players when posting.

Rebalance of GE

  • Thread starter DeletedUser4923
  • Start date

DeletedUser4923

Guest
I've had quite a discussion on the live servers about this.

There are some prices in GE that are not supposed to be there. The watchfire is one of them. It is an event building so by definition it should be in the green(jade) relic. Rather not, because there are too many watchfires available as we speak. So i would plead to remove the watchfire out of the golden relic and replace it by 25 or 50 promethium.

Oases in the jade relic should also be replaced as far as im concerned. Shrine of Inspiration or some other building will do nicely.

Better still is to have variable prices in the relics. Except off course the forgepoints en the shrine of knowledge.
 

thephantom

Emperor
InnoGames
In my opinion, the problem isn't the potential prizes but the fact that every player is at a different place in the game, has different gameplay, and has different buildings in their city. This means that a prize you may consider worthy, may not be one that I like. For example, you can give me an Oasis over a Shrine of Inspiration any day. ;)

I'm sure there are lots of players who seek Watchfires, just as there are some who don't want them. In that sense, rotating prizes could be a good thing, though I couldn't say how complicated it would be to do that.
 

Lionhead

Baronet
In my opinion, the problem isn't the potential prizes but the fact that every player is at a different place in the game, has different gameplay, and has different buildings in their city. This means that a prize you may consider worthy, may not be one that I like. For example, you can give me an Oasis over a Shrine of Inspiration any day. ;)

I'm sure there are lots of players who seek Watchfires, just as there are some who don't want them. In that sense, rotating prizes could be a good thing, though I couldn't say how complicated it would be to do that.

The problem IS the potential prizes, as is. At least in the long run.
As it is now, all that is offered in the rare relic is buildings. Something which has to be built. Something which requires space. Sure, you will be able to build some you win in the beginning. Perhaps you have to delete something else first. But at some point, you WILL run out of space to build any of the 5 offered prizes. Then what?
Would you enjoy finding more rare relics? Would you level your ToR even higher to enhance the chance of finding rare relics which offers nothing useful?
Put something in the rare relic, which can be used and never will be outdated like fp´s, diamonds, medals. Even coins. For those I can at least by my fp´s.
 

DeletedUser7649

Guest
The problem IS the potential prizes, as is. At least in the long run.
As it is now, all that is offered in the rare relic is buildings. Something which has to be built. Something which requires space. Sure, you will be able to build some you win in the beginning. Perhaps you have to delete something else first. But at some point, you WILL run out of space to build any of the 5 offered prizes. Then what?
Would you enjoy finding more rare relics? Would you level your ToR even higher to enhance the chance of finding rare relics which offers nothing useful?
Put something in the rare relic, which can be used and never will be outdated like fp´s, diamonds, medals. Even coins. For those I can at least by my fp´s.

Lionhead I think brought up a rather important point, so how about this? What if you changed the drops to fewer buildings, say 1 per week from a rare relic? I don't get rare relics nearly as often as the other types because, well, they're rare (duh xD) As such make the prizes a little bit better, so 1 building prize, 1 fp prize, 1 diamond prize etc. Perhaps don't use a set amount for any of them either (You can get 200 diamonds one week and then maybe only 150 next time or something) In order to keep some element of randomness within the prizes themselves. I believe randomness is necessary BECUASE of the drop rate of rare relics, i.e. if you were going to get either 500 fps or 500 diamonds GUARANTEED from a rare relic, then you would need to change the drop percentage SUBSTANTIALLY.
 

Artubar

Baronet
.. then you would need to change the drop percentage SUBSTANTIALLY.
Change it? You mean.. lower it?
That would mean I'd have to pay those 500 FPs 7 out of 8 weeks...? :eek::D


Have both of you, @Lionhead & @General Life , read my suggestion above?
Wouldn't that solve the problem of the 'wrong' reward?
There would be still the luck factor in it (will I get any Aztec Medals at all? Will it be a single one, a fistful, a pouch, a treasure chest?), leaving out the frustration factor of getting the 'completely wrong' item.
 

DeletedUser7649

Guest
Change it? You mean.. lower it?
That would mean I'd have to pay those 500 FPs 7 out of 8 weeks...? :eek::D


Have both of you, @Lionhead & @General Life , read my suggestion above?
Wouldn't that solve the problem of the 'wrong' reward?
There would be still the luck factor in it (will I get any Aztec Medals at all? Will it be a single one, a fistful, a pouch, a treasure chest?), leaving out the frustration factor of getting the 'completely wrong' item.
I have indeed mate, and I do think it is an intriguing idea. All the same I do disagree with it. With your 'Aztec Coins' you would be able to buy "...all possible rewards, priced accordingly to their rareness." (I know I for one would like clarification on what you eman here, does this include medals, goods, diamonds etc?)The main problem would in fact be that. You idea would add a new element to the game that would be fun and I support that part of it, but at the same time it doesn't fix the problem Lionhead brought up with the space issue. Doubtless you will say that you can buy the building you want to maximize space, and while this is true, it still misses the fundamental argument that Lionhead brought up, Jade relics are not for the end game player. Why is that? Because the rewards are useless when you have no more space, your idea, as much as I do like it (Who doesn't want to compare Aztec Coin amounts in global? :p) It merely delays the problem, but doesn't actually fix it.
 

DeletedUser7473

Guest
I have indeed mate, and I do think it is an intriguing idea. All the same I do disagree with it. With your 'Aztec Coins' you would be able to buy "...all possible rewards, priced accordingly to their rareness." (I know I for one would like clarification on what you eman here, does this include medals, goods, diamonds etc?)The main problem would in fact be that. You idea would add a new element to the game that would be fun and I support that part of it, but at the same time it doesn't fix the problem Lionhead brought up with the space issue. Doubtless you will say that you can buy the building you want to maximize space, and while this is true, it still misses the fundamental argument that Lionhead brought up, Jade relics are not for the end game player. Why is that? Because the rewards are useless when you have no more space, your idea, as much as I do like it (Who doesn't want to compare Aztec Coin amounts in global? :p) It merely delays the problem, but doesn't actually fix it.

Then how about mixing both - your concern and Exegghead's idea?
Let all non-building drops from relicts stay as they are since they can be used by everyone and don't need building space.
So only substitute the buildings in the relict rewards with different amounts of Aztec Coins or whatever you wanna call it.
And then have a shop that allows you to trade in those coins into the buildings, that were inside the relicts before, or into Forge Points and Medals.
The exchange into Forge Points and Medals would be neccessary for those players who don't have any space in their cities anymore.

Only you have to understand that the costs of the buildings, Forge Points and Medals would be higher than the ones gotten directly from the relicts so far because you'd get Aztec Coins from all substituted drops and can then choose what to buy.
So the prices for exchanging Aztec Coins for buildings, Forge Points or Medals should be around 3-4 times as expansive as when you got buildings directly from the relicts.
Meaning you´d need to get 3-4 rare relicts to buy one Bazaar for example.
In exchange for these increased prices you wouldn´t have any useless building anymore rotting away in your inventory.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Promethium is something rare
so if it would be a reward it must be in the rare relic

Oases in the jade relic should also be replaced as far as im concerned. Shrine of Inspiration or some other building will do nicely.
SoI are worse than Oases

The watchfire is one of them. It is an event building so by definition it should be in the green(jade) relic.
and the premium deco is something uncommon:
should be in the golden relic and takes the place of the watchfire

and the free place in silver can take a normal (=common) deco
 

podkap1970

Emperor
well the problem of the GE is, peoples getting unmotivated, losing interest, the last few fights in the AE-GE, is not worth the afford you get at the end (last chest need new prices, or diffrent ones, (2 ToR BPs is just a KO criterium)

even me got tired of the GE, because spending time for manuall fighting, losing rogues, for just a bad reward
the only thing i need is a SoK, if the week gives it out, and the 100 diamonds (for me is even 50 goods better as any premium building, because in the events you can win many premium stuff)
sure if you manage to be in top 3 at the end of the week, you get more power

i don't know how to make it better, but the currency for each fight sounds not bad, or for the last difficulty you get the currencies, and every 3-4 weeks you can buy a SoK out of a shop, or something else usefull

the problem for a shop is, the events getting more unimportent (if there are scout/take province quests :) )
 

Artubar

Baronet
...but at the same time it doesn't fix the problem Lionhead brought up with the space issue.
Oh, I think it would - as you've already expected, I'll say: If you don't have the space for a building, you don't buy it :)

Just a quick example - if it is still needed, I'll try to find the time to elaborate a bit more on it later:
According to my experience, in a common relic 2 blueprints or 5 military units are most common, 25 goods a bit less, 20 FPs even lesser.
So let's make up Aztec Coin (AC) prizes for them: blueprints & units 2 AC, the goods 3 AC, 20 FPs 4 AC.
With an uncommon relic, which is (or should be..) the case in 25.5% (base value), you have this percentage as a modifier - those rewards are basically 4 times more 'valuable' - the most common there is that freaking watchfire, so let's say that one is worth 8 AC; 200 goods ~ 10 AC, 100 FPs ~ 14 AC.
And the rare relics with a base chance of 1% <> 100x more valuable could start off somewhere around 150-200. can't tell anything about possibilities there, only got one so far on my main world. But just for the purpose, let's say the Oasis I got is worth 250 AC.

My proposal: Instead of getting those rewards, you get the according amount of ACs - from a common one most likely 2 AC up to 4 AC (less often).
From an uncommon one, you get a pouch of 8-15 ACs; from a rare one you get a chest of .. 175-300 AC.

With those ACs you have won, you visit the shop, and chose the rewards YOU want, need & have a use for.
If you were lucky and have won a chest containing 250 AC, you could either buy the Oasis, or spend it on 175x 5 units if that is your current need.
Having won mere two ACs, you can either spend them immediately on two blueprints, or save them up until you have 10 ACs and buy those 200 goods, if you're currently short of them. And yes, that would include the possibility that you could save 150x 2 AC from common relics to get the SoK.

In short, you never get a 'reward' you don't want, you don't like, you have no use for. You chose the things that are really a reward for you.

/edit: as already mentioned before: Those AC prices are just made up by me; the real values are - or should be - basically proportional to (1 / chance to get it).
 
Last edited:

urine luck

Baronet
rare prizes are 90% bazaars and oasis for me. i dont want either of them. so there at least needs to be more variety.

it would make sense and be welcomed by everyone to have a rare FP prize like the other relics have
 

DeletedUser7649

Guest
Then how about mixing both - your concern and Exegghead's idea?
Let all non-building drops from relicts stay as they are since they can be used by everyone and don't need building space.
So only substitute the buildings in the relict rewards with different amounts of Aztec Coins or whatever you wanna call it.
And then have a shop that allows you to trade in those coins into the buildings, that were inside the relicts before, or into Forge Points and Medals.
The exchange into Forge Points and Medals would be neccessary for those players who don't have any space in their cities anymore.

Only you have to understand that the costs of the buildings, Forge Points and Medals would be higher than the ones gotten directly from the relicts so far because you'd get Aztec Coins from all substituted drops and can then choose what to buy.
So the prices for exchanging Aztec Coins for buildings, Forge Points or Medals should be around 3-4 times as expansive as when you got buildings directly from the relicts.
Meaning you´d need to get 3-4 rare relicts to buy one Bazaar for example.
In exchange for these increased prices you wouldn´t have any useless building anymore rotting away in your inventory.

This is a very interesting idea, but how would you assign the number of coins given out instead of a building drop? Is it irrespective of the building? Or is it a set number of coins for each building? i.e. SOI worth 3, SOK 4 or whatever. If the coins are building dependent, and you end up needing to win the equivalent of 3-4 SOKs (In the form of coins) in order to buy one from the shop, I'm not sure if this would be the best approach...
 

DeletedUser7649

Guest
Oh, I think it would - as you've already expected, I'll say: If you don't have the space for a building, you don't buy it :)

Just a quick example - if it is still needed, I'll try to find the time to elaborate a bit more on it later:
According to my experience, in a common relic 2 blueprints or 5 military units are most common, 25 goods a bit less, 20 FPs even lesser.
So let's make up Aztec Coin (AC) prizes for them: blueprints & units 2 AC, the goods 3 AC, 20 FPs 4 AC.
With an uncommon relic, which is (or should be..) the case in 25.5% (base value), you have this percentage as a modifier - those rewards are basically 4 times more 'valuable' - the most common there is that freaking watchfire, so let's say that one is worth 8 AC; 200 goods ~ 10 AC, 100 FPs ~ 14 AC.
And the rare relics with a base chance of 1% <> 100x more valuable could start off somewhere around 150-200. can't tell anything about possibilities there, only got one so far on my main world. But just for the purpose, let's say the Oasis I got is worth 250 AC.

My proposal: Instead of getting those rewards, you get the according amount of ACs - from a common one most likely 2 AC up to 4 AC (less often).
From an uncommon one, you get a pouch of 8-15 ACs; from a rare one you get a chest of .. 175-300 AC.

With those ACs you have won, you visit the shop, and chose the rewards YOU want, need & have a use for.
If you were lucky and have won a chest containing 250 AC, you could either buy the Oasis, or spend it on 175x 5 units if that is your current need.
Having won mere two ACs, you can either spend them immediately on two blueprints, or save them up until you have 10 ACs and buy those 200 goods, if you're currently short of them. And yes, that would include the possibility that you could save 150x 2 AC from common relics to get the SoK.

In short, you never get a 'reward' you don't want, you don't like, you have no use for. You chose the things that are really a reward for you.

/edit: as already mentioned before: Those AC prices are just made up by me; the real values are - or should be - basically proportional to (1 / chance to get it).

For clarification: So are all prizes changed into ACs? Medals, diamonds etc? <-Soon as I get this answered I will respond to your whole post :)

Also for clarification: Are we only talking about prizes from relics, or prizes from the GE chests as well?
 

DeletedUser7473

Guest
This is a very interesting idea, but how would you assign the number of coins given out instead of a building drop? Is it irrespective of the building? Or is it a set number of coins for each building? i.e. SOI worth 3, SOK 4 or whatever. If the coins are building dependent, and you end up needing to win the equivalent of 3-4 SOKs (In the form of coins) in order to buy one from the shop, I'm not sure if this would be the best approach...

There would be a fixed amount of Aztec Coins for the uncommon and rare relicts while there would be differing prices for the buildings in the GE shop.
E.g. uncommon relicts would give 1 coin while rare relicts would give 5 coins.

The prices for buildings could then for example be:
- Shrine of Knowledge: 15 coins
- Shrine of Inspiration: 10 coins
- Shrine of Awe: 8 coins
- Bazaar: 12 coins
- Oasis: 10 coins
- Wishing Well: 12 coins
- Watchfire: 2 coins
- Premium decoration: 1 coin

Extra (for those that don´t need any buildings anymore):
- 100 Forge Points directly input into their FP-bar: 100 coins

Important: The 100 Forge Point relict would still continue to exist giving 100 FPs directly. This option would only be in the GE shop to purchase for players that have no space in their city anymore and don´t want to sell any of those buildings because those buildings are already the ones they want.

Btw. SoK, Bazaar and Wishing Well are more expansive because they can produce Forge Points, Goods or/and Diamonds. (most important reason are the Forge Points and the Diamonds)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser5097

Guest
well the problem of the GE is, peoples getting unmotivated, losing interest, the last few fights in the AE-GE, is not worth the afford you get at the end (last chest need new prices, or diffrent ones, (2 ToR BPs is just a KO criterium)

even me got tired of the GE, because spending time for manuall fighting, losing rogues, for just a bad reward
the only thing i need is a SoK, if the week gives it out, and the 100 diamonds (for me is even 50 goods better as any premium building, because in the events you can win many premium stuff)
sure if you manage to be in top 3 at the end of the week, you get more power

i don't know how to make it better, but the currency for each fight sounds not bad, or for the last difficulty you get the currencies, and every 3-4 weeks you can buy a SoK out of a shop, or something else usefull

the problem for a shop is, the events getting more unimportent (if there are scout/take province quests :) )
That's a good point. A shop can be a good idea that players can decide what they want, but the
promlem is what you did said. It makes event shops unimportent, because there is always a
shop to buy (event/diamond) stuff.
I support the idea of a shop, but I agree that in this way it destroy event shops. I have maybe
a idea to avoid this problem. Just sell exclusive GE stuff in the shop. It is GE right and if you
has special GE coins to buy stuff in the GE shop you play GE. Some random ideas for exclusive
GE stuff:

Basics
Attemps (basic huh, you can buy it with medalls, but if you don't want that this can be a altarnative)
BP of the Relic temple (your playing GE and you can use maybe this GB, maybe you have one and want higher levels)
GE points (helps your guild to get the last few points, doesn't affect the ranking for GE, only the power output)
Extra negotiate attemp (only 1-2 for each negotiate can be used, because if it can be unlimeted it makes it to easy)

Buildings
A GE building that lower the bonus of GE armies (can be buyed only once, the higher the age of that building it bring the
the bonus of the foe armies in GE lower, not to much xd, maybe AF -30% and in iron age -2%, works only if the foe's army have
a bonus)
GE unit (a unit that grow with ages and fight stronger in GE battles)
GE unit base (can be helpfull to get more of them)
Building like a HoF, but doesn't produce guildpower but GE points each day
GE building that raise the rewards a bit (if you will spend you rare space to get a bit more suplies/coins/medalls of rewards)
GE buildin one up kit (the same as the one up kit, but can be used for GE buildings only)
GE renovation kit (same as reno kit, but can be used for GE buildings only)

The buildings should to be expansive and it must be rare/hard to find the GE coins, that was suggested for
the shop, by Exegghead.:) The shop won't affeact at this way event shops, if you can buy only GE stuff and
not event or diamond or normal buildings. Also it would be good that you can buy some coins for the shop
with diamonds, good for Inno a new diamond option.:p

Note, the suggestions above are just random. Innogames' team can decide what the want to use or
don't. It makes in my oppinion GE more fun. A shop makes it more fun and if I can buy there exclusive
stuff for GE it would be more intressting. The number of lower bonus of GE armies are just some example.
I trust that Innogames' team can make a better number, if the use the suggestion.:p It can help players if
GE is too hard for them to keep playing it to the end, but it takes some space of them.
 

DeletedUser7649

Guest
That's a good point. A shop can be a good idea that players can decide what they want, but the
promlem is what you did said. It makes event shops unimportent, because there is always a
shop to buy (event/diamond) stuff.
I support the idea of a shop, but I agree that in this way it destroy event shops. I have maybe
a idea to avoid this problem. Just sell exclusive GE stuff in the shop. It is GE right and if you
has special GE coins to buy stuff in the GE shop you play GE. Some random ideas for exclusive
GE stuff:

Basics
Attemps (basic huh, you can buy it with medalls, but if you don't want that this can be a altarnative)
BP of the Relic temple (your playing GE and you can use maybe this GB, maybe you have one and want higher levels)
GE points (helps your guild to get the last few points, doesn't affect the ranking for GE, only the power output)
Extra negotiate attemp (only 1-2 for each negotiate can be used, because if it can be unlimeted it makes it to easy)

Buildings
A GE building that lower the bonus of GE armies (can be buyed only once, the higher the age of that building it bring the
the bonus of the foe armies in GE lower, not to much xd, maybe AF -30% and in iron age -2%, works only if the foe's army have
a bonus)
GE unit (a unit that grow with ages and fight stronger in GE battles)
GE unit base (can be helpfull to get more of them)
Building like a HoF, but doesn't produce guildpower but GE points each day
GE building that raise the rewards a bit (if you will spend you rare space to get a bit more suplies/coins/medalls of rewards)
GE buildin one up kit (the same as the one up kit, but can be used for GE buildings only)
GE renovation kit (same as reno kit, but can be used for GE buildings only)

The buildings should to be expansive and it must be rare/hard to find the GE coins, that was suggested for
the shop, by Exegghead.:) The shop won't affeact at this way event shops, if you can buy only GE stuff and
not event or diamond or normal buildings. Also it would be good that you can buy some coins for the shop
with diamonds, good for Inno a new diamond option.:p

Note, the suggestions above are just random. Innogames' team can decide what the want to use or
don't. It makes in my oppinion GE more fun. A shop makes it more fun and if I can buy there exclusive
stuff for GE it would be more intressting. The number of lower bonus of GE armies are just some example.
I trust that Innogames' team can make a better number, if the use the suggestion.:p It can help players if
GE is too hard for them to keep playing it to the end, but it takes some space of them.

So would the stuff in the shop be rotated every week or always available?

Note: I REALLY like that list that you put together of building ideas, kudos :)
 
Top