Feedback Ongoing Changelog w/c 30th January

[dolphin]

All of these changes were perceived by the vast majority of forum members as a hit, but the party line was that those changes were needed in the interest of "balance".

I think left out bank as in "bank balance".

 

[DeletedUser7978]

Forge Point rewards from Treasure Hunt are now given out as direct Forge Points.

I am in High Middle Ages in Odhrorvar and Iron Age in Beta, so I can only post this feedback from the perspective of a newer player. I have been playing for just over 2 months.

While in Bronze Age and Iron Age in both my worlds, I got stuck on research because of needing goods, so I donated the 24 Forge Points daily from the bar to established players, because I had no Great Buildings of my own. I did not join a guild until I was at the end of Early Middle Ages. The extra Forge Point packs that I earned from Treasure Hunt I saved for when I found trades for the goods I needed to complete research. I then used the saved Forge Point packs to continue with research. If I didn’t have those saved Forge Point packs to continue with research, I would have got bored from moving so slowly and quit playing the game. I already see many new players quitting early on because the game is too slow and frustrating. Having Forge Points from Treasure Hunt going direct to the bar will make this problem worse, because newer players will be placing the Forge Points they earn from Treasure Hunt into established players Great Buildings instead, which makes established players stronger. Isn’t the whole idea to have player retention and keep people playing? Or do you only care about the bottom line – MONEY. Are there not enough people buying Forge Points with Diamonds because they have too many Forge Point packs stored in Inventory? There will be even less people spending money on Diamonds if people quit playing because the game is too slow and frustrating. There needs to be a happy medium and keeping Forge Point packs in Treasure Hunt creates this happy medium. Some long time players here have already said they don’t do the Treasure Hunt and have not done it for months. Newer players and players with not many Forge Point packs saved in Inventory are doing Treasure Hunt, because it helps them with a chance of Forge Point packs, goods and military units. I personally enjoy doing the Treasure Hunt for the chance of these 3 things. I am even happy getting supplies from Treasure Hunt, because supplies are still helpful for me. Coins are less exciting, because I have many of them, but I know coins are still helpful for new players just starting out.

Why should other newer players not be able to do the same as I did with saving Forge Point packs to continue with research when they find trades for goods they need? The change to now having Forge Points go to the bar instead of packs for Treasure Hunt will hurt newer players the most and make it slower for them to get through research to unlock new buildings and advance ages, which will make them bored with the game and they will quit playing. It is already extremely slow when starting playing and making the game even slower will just see newer players quit before they even reach Early Middle Ages. In Beta, I’m in Iron Age and supplies from production buildings (in Bronze Age and Iron Age) are really low and I find myself running out every day and having to make more before I can do anything else. It is frustrating, but Beta is my second world, so I know better production buildings are coming, so I persevere. First time players don’t have this knowledge. In my game in Odhrorvar, if I didn’t have the saved Forge Point packs to continue with research to get to better production buildings in Early Middle Ages, then I would have quit playing already.

Forge Points going to the bar instead of packs to Inventory will also hurt players with not many Forge Point packs stored. Long time players with many Forge Point packs stored will always take top spots on Great Buildings, because they have more Forge Points to use. Players with not many Forge Point packs stored in their Inventory won’t be able to compete while donating on Great Buildings. With Forge Points going direct to the bar, more players will be donating to Great Buildings and only higher level long time players with lots of stored Forge Point packs in their Inventory will get Forge Point packs back in return, so this will make them even stronger and have even more Forge Point packs stored. Newer players and players with not many Forge Point packs stored in their Inventory won’t be able to compete, so they will get nothing in return and ultimately lose out, so they will get frustrated and quit playing. Everyone wants to have a fair chance to get the top spots while donating on Great Buildings, but with this change it will be unfair, with long time players with many Forge Point packs stored having a massive advantage.

How is making Forge Points go direct to the bar for Treasure Hunt going to help stop players from saving infinite amounts of Forge Point packs in their Inventory? For higher level long time established players, it won’t. This change will only hurt newer, lower level players and players with not many Forge Point packs saved in their Inventory. Please reconsider this change if you don’t want to see many lower level players quit and established high level long time players with masses of Forge Point packs saved in their Inventory become even stronger.

Okay it appears the feedback threads on the daily changelogs were started at the right time.

The decision to change the package rewards to direct Forge Points is because we prefer to see a more constant flow of forge points through the game, rather than them being stockpiled into infinity. (Also in general on the UI side we think it's more understandable when there's only being one method of storing Forge Points - the Forge Points bar.)

Don't worry, no changes currently planned for the handling of the Great Building rewards, we realize that's a bit of a different situation.

You do realise you have just contradicted yourself there. First you said on the UI side you only want ONE method for storing Forge Points - on the Forge Points bar. Then you said that Great Building rewards will be handled differently - meaning still as Forge Point packs.

There are still TWO methods for storing Forge Points, so why not just leave Forge Point packs from Treasure Hunt for those who still wish to do Treasure Hunt. You could always lower the chances for getting Forge Point packs from Treasure Hunt if you want to cut down on the amount of Forge Point packs people are storing in their Inventory.

 

[andre81]

Fronte 1.94 changelog:

• We changed the behavior of some features, where you could win Forge Point Packages. Now the Forge Points will be added to your Forge Points bar directly.
  The Great Buildings contribution rewards are still granted as packages.

Which are these features? Only Treasure Hunt? I think that few players still use this function, so I really don't understand where is the problem. Clearly It would be quite different if the change concerns the behaviour of FP earned with quests.
If I don't understand wrong, nothing is changed about quests, right?

 

[Miepie]

What "balance" was disrupted with this change? Those who used the Treasure Hunt had the same Forge Point packages or chances for grabbing the same prizes as those who receive contribution rewards, especially with an Arc? And that was taken away? It's the contribution rewards themselves that give those prizes, and the Arc that increases them further. And all of that is still accessible to everyone. Plus every reward and prize is simply higher when working with high level Great Buildings. This change is certainly not disturbing any 'balance' in the game. The change is done for everyone; if you however are not partaking in Treasure Hunt then you are excluding yourself from the group that it affects.

Balance doesn't mean everyone gets the same prize for different actions. It means the game has balance within itself. For example the challenge in era A is weaker than the challenge in the next era: B. Similarly the prizes in the early eras are smaller than the prizes in the late eras. The stats for the building A should be similar to the stats for all buildings of that type/era/description, not double or triple so it stands out. Because when those things aren't right, they imbalance the game and bring out more issues in the long run.

It's never easy when a rebalancing has to be done, because even when it has positive impact on the game itself, it can still affect folks negatively. But unfortunately it's important that it is done. I see no connection with that to this though since this is in no way a rebalance.

Sounds to me like you don't want to get it. Let's try with a little example:
Recently I started on a new world. Since resources there are scarce I play the treasure hunt in hopes to get bp's goods AND forgepoint PACKAGEs. Ofcoure, I have enough options to directly spent raw forgepoints but I'm trying to get a bit of a stockpile over there. Right now, my stockpile is a full 12 fp. Why safe them instead of using them directly? Simple, I need blueprints and the best way to gain those next to m/o, is investing in other great buildings. But only if I manage to secure a good spot, otherwise i risk throwing away forgepoints. I won't risk that, simply because I do not have very much of them. So this change means I rather spend the fp I gain from the treasure hunt in either my own GB's, even though I can't win any prices there or else spend them in my tech. And no doubt others feel the same. That means everybody is going to spend less in other GB's, so less social interaction, less BP's, longer time before I have 7 or 8 bp's from a gb so more time before I'll consider buying the last 1 or 2 with diamonds, longer time needed before I can build new ones etc. You claim the change is ment to increase the constant flow of forgepoints but all it will accomplish is less forgepoints for everybody in the long run (and maybe even lower diamond sales in the long run because it takes so much longer to get a gb near completion) .

 

[DeletedUser7239]

Sounds to me like you don't want to get it. Let's try with a little example:
Recently I started on a new world. Since resources there are scarce I play the treasure hunt in hopes to get bp's goods AND forgepoint PACKAGEs. Ofcoure, I have enough options to directly spent raw forgepoints but I'm trying to get a bit of a stockpile over there. Right now, my stockpile is a full 12 fp. Why safe them instead of using them directly? Simple, I need blueprints and the best way to gain those next to m/o, is investing in other great buildings. But only if I manage to secure a good spot, otherwise i risk throwing away forgepoints. I won't risk that, simply because I do not have very much of them. So this change means I rather spend the fp I gain from the treasure hunt in either my own GB's, even though I can't win any prices there or else spend them in my tech. And no doubt others feel the same. That means everybody is going to spend less in other GB's, so less social interaction, less BP's, longer time before I have 7 or 8 bp's from a gb so more time before I'll consider buying the last 1 or 2 with diamonds, longer time needed before I can build new ones etc. You claim the change is ment to increase the constant flow of forgepoints but all it will accomplish is less forgepoints for everybody in the long run (and maybe even lower diamond sales in the long run because it takes so much longer to get a gb near completion) .

Diamond sale push, does not matter how political they said the justification, still bs and disrespectful since most of the feedback(if not all) was negative.
From my side, when this goes live, treasure hunt to me is over.
Until they put in their thick heads that even if they do lots of events, historical quests IF WE CANNOT USE THAT, does not matter how much gifs or whatever is handled, especially if this game starts to look more a diamond island.
Ps: where is the solution for AF treasury goods? so fast in ruining the game in things that were good and things that need handling nothing?

 

[Macha]

treasure hunt & ge fps going directly to the fp bar is not a big game changer, it will not stop players progressing through the game, there are plenty of players at the end of tec tree & everyone of them managed to get there without these addition fps

 

[Achaeus]

treasure hunt & ge fps going directly to the fp bar is not a big game changer, it will not stop players progressing through the game, there are plenty of players at the end of tec tree & everyone of them managed to get there without these addition fps

Macha I don't believe the question was if they can get there but how quickly can they get there and if new players will get bored and leave without the additional assistance of having FP's in inventory. It is a matter of player retention at lower levels.

 

[Miepie]

treasure hunt & ge fps going directly to the fp bar is not a big game changer, it will not stop players progressing through the game, there are plenty of players at the end of tec tree & everyone of them managed to get there without these addition fps

If this game was only about reaching the end of the tech tree, you'd have a point. But I see a lot of "end of tech" players who have ignored their GB's and now those players have a very hard time playing GE, for one thing. So yeah, they managed to get to the end of their technologies but now they find they have a major disadvantage compared to their neighbors who dit put in the efford of a balanced growth. And the main reason why I'm against this change, you can already see the mission rewards will be next. You cannot claim that won't be a major game changer because "you never had them". For my main world, these changes won't have any impact, I get all my packages from donating with a 90% arc bonus and 2 or 3 packages less per day, I won't even notice. But it's a different story for the world I just started on. Sure, the less strategic players probably won't notice the difference, and yes, that's the majority of players. But that's not because they're not screwed by this change but because they don't look further than the next day. Besides, the statement they didn't change anything to the GB rewards for now is not very reassuring, sounds to me as if they're already considering a major screw-up in that area as well.

But then, giving feedback to inno is a bit of a waste of time. If they have a plan, they have a plan. And no matter how ill adviced, they'll force it on us and tell us it's for the better of the whole, even though it's not better for us individual players.

 

[Lionhead]

Sounds to me like you don't want to get it. Let's try with a little example:
Recently I started on a new world. Since resources there are scarce I play the treasure hunt in hopes to get bp's goods AND forgepoint PACKAGEs. Ofcoure, I have enough options to directly spent raw forgepoints but I'm trying to get a bit of a stockpile over there. Right now, my stockpile is a full 12 fp. Why safe them instead of using them directly? Simple, I need blueprints and the best way to gain those next to m/o, is investing in other great buildings. But only if I manage to secure a good spot, otherwise i risk throwing away forgepoints. I won't risk that, simply because I do not have very much of them. So this change means I rather spend the fp I gain from the treasure hunt in either my own GB's, even though I can't win any prices there or else spend them in my tech. And no doubt others feel the same. That means everybody is going to spend less in other GB's, so less social interaction, less BP's, longer time before I have 7 or 8 bp's from a gb so more time before I'll consider buying the last 1 or 2 with diamonds, longer time needed before I can build new ones etc. You claim the change is ment to increase the constant flow of forgepoints but all it will accomplish is less forgepoints for everybody in the long run (and maybe even lower diamond sales in the long run because it takes so much longer to get a gb near completion) .

I understand some considerations has to be made with this change when you´re a relatively new player.
But let me ask. Are you not in a guild? Would it not be possible to come up with some kind of plan within the guild on how the "young" players can spend those fp´s they´re "forced" to spend. Spend them in GB´s within the guild, so a place will be safe?
Perhaps one could look among neighbors? It´s been a while since I was in Iron Age in any of the worlds I´m playing, but if memory serves me, there would always be a good handful who had early age GB amongst my neighbors. Those GB´s would always be in low levels, so if you use a 10 fp directly from bar in the same GB if you´re lucky enough to get a couple within a short period of time, wouldn´t you then almost with certainty secure on of the rewardgiving spots in that GB? Because you would already have spent more than it pays, so noone would find it attractive to try and steal your place?

 

[DeletedUser7156]

This appears to be the end of players having the ability to compete for Top Spots on GBs. Inno is basically preventing players from having bank accounts and limiting us to holding onto no more than 100 coins in our pockets. If the intent is to spend more $$$ on FoE, for me, it is having the opposite effect. Inno, please keep the FP Packs on Treasure Hunt, Treasure Chests in GE, Quests, and Top 5 Spots on GBs. I’m fine with the Relics going directly to the Bar. Just don’t mess with the others.