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Spoiler New Guild Expedition Buildings! (GE Update?)

Owl II

Emperor
I do not know why developers are always trying to dig up and revive this corpse (defence of the city). Maybe it's just because they can't come up with something new
 

nice2haveu

Baronet
They won't start. The thing that the developers don't understand: the mechanism for defending the city was made for another game. That game didn't contain GE, GBG, or even GvG. There was no "auto battle" button in that game. There were only neighbors. And there was some balance between defense and attack. But all this was broken at the moment when special buildings with attack have been added to the game. And when devs forced the players to increase the max attack for GBG, the mechanism of defense of the city was finally buried. Currently, there is no such defence that a player who beats GBG with a attrition of 100, +- could not break through. So, we can not remember at all about the defence of the city in its initial sense. And they should introduce rewards comparable to GBG to make this parameter somewhat attractive to players. But we know that won't happen. But if it happens, it will be another of the greatest stupidity of development
To make it interesting with defense boost, if Dev's bring some new mechanism like "defense meter", where all guild members can donate our defense material from our inventory and this new meter consume them and produce the overall defense storage gathered from entire guild (kind of treasury logic) to deal with fortification battles. With this concept, guild admin or guild members who have privileges to unlock a guild level can take the control of applying those defense power to keep the fortification strong. Here, they set only defense meter (not army units). After setting the defense power, every guild member can add their respective army units from their age to move forward. If defense power not enough, guild admin need to add more defense power to make sure, every guild player battles are getting succeeded to reach the end. Still not very much interesting, but dealing with defense whatever thoughts coming into my mind doesn't give any good impression. What to do, mind completely addicted to attacking army boost all these years of playing.
 

drakenridder

Emperor
Perk Creator
I think the devs know better what they're doing, than upset players, lol. In another game there where also 2 types of combat. One had more uses, options offered and naturally beter developed. The 2nd was similar to defence buffs here. More limited in its application, viewer options and less developed. Yet no one cried, whined or complained about it. Rather embraced the challenge. Some even where building specific things to grow stronger specifically in that cause fewer where. While still being strong in the most useful weapons.
Newer cities will corporate defence buffs into their city designs. Established players willing to adapt eventually too. Gradually those who where willing to adapt will enjoy the challenges presented in GE5 and its rewards. Leaving those unwilling to adapt in the dust. Just natural selection.

Also let's not forget, most military minded players gonna chasing down as many phantom towers as possible anyways. Unintentionally raising their defence buffs enormously too. So, they shouldn't be in such a bad spot when GE5 arrives as it seems to be now.
 

Owl II

Emperor
To make it interesting with defense boost, if Dev's bring some new mechanism like "defense meter", where all guild members can donate our defense material from our inventory and this new meter consume them and produce the overall defense storage gathered from entire guild (kind of treasury logic) to deal with fortification battles. With this concept, guild admin or guild members who have privileges to unlock a guild level can take the control of applying those defense power to keep the fortification strong. Here, they set only defense meter (not army units). After setting the defense power, every guild member can add their respective army units from their age to move forward. If defense power not enough, guild admin need to add more defense power to make sure, every guild player battles are getting succeeded to reach the end. Still not very much interesting, but dealing with defense whatever thoughts coming into my mind doesn't give any good impression. What to do, mind completely addicted to attacking army boost all these years of playing.
Yes, it would be interesting content, giving a new boost to team gameplay, which is formally GE. Unfortunately, it's easier to ride on an old gameplay that has lost its relevance than to come up with and develop something new..
 

Owl II

Emperor
Established players willing to adapt eventually too. Gradually those who where willing to adapt will enjoy the challenges presented in GE5 and its rewards. Leaving those unwilling to adapt in the dust. Just natural selection.
Yes, yes. Obviously the same players who diligently leveled St. Basil and the Deal when the PVP arena was in development:D
 
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drakenridder

Emperor
Perk Creator
Yes, yes. Obviously the same players who diligently leveled St. Basil and the Deal when the PVPP arena was in development:D
Whaha yeah, sure. Since when does the PvP arena offer:
1.) a decent, if not good chain building
2.) a temporary strong building
3.) exclusive buildings tight to the feature
4.) guild power
5.) trophies for the guild
6.) fighting with defence buffs only in PvP arena
I must've missed something for sure. The phantom PvP arena enhancement update must've slipped by me.xd Particularly my point 6, at live it must be exceptionally buggy. Cause I could use my red buffs while attacking other players in the PvP arena. o_O Also I've must gotten unlucky to the point of not getting those new shiny buildings and all other players at live must be equally unlucky as no one having them.
Could you share a link for that mysterious update for PvP arena?
Oh ah I see, at live I'm clicking on the PvP arena, you're talking about the PvPP arena, not sure how to unlock the PvPP arena
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
I do not know why developers are always trying to dig up and revive this corpse (defence of the city). Maybe it's just because they can't come up with something new
Because it'd be good for the game if they succeeded. More desired stats to balance in development of a city = more interesting strategy in city building. I'd also love population, happiness, coins, and supplies to become more desirable again in some way :p

Will they succeed? I have my doubts. But I hope they do.

I think to some extent it'll have to be a battle by degrees. Where the threshold for GE5 if it's going to be the only valuable defense-required feature is going to have to be relatively low for some people to go "fine, i can do that" (and yes, a GBG fighter will absolutely steam roll that level of it in its original purpose as neighborhood defense).

But if it's valuable enough to be wanted and low enough that people start to adopt it, then next time they want to make defense matter maybe they can aim a little higher.

And even if it's not a real threat, a few hundred % defense boost being "normal" would improve the state of things - where maybe you *might* lose a unit at least attacking someone :p The threshold to do some damage to an attacker is much lower than the threshold to win a fight.

I think the primary interest they have in this for GE5 is as follows:

- people who really want GE5 want it to be a new challenge. But if they've already been working up their attack stats, it might well not be. There's a good chance it'd turn into 16 more free rewards per week immediately to those who want it most - and who needs that.
- so either GE5 has to require crazy high attack levels, or it needs to require something else so they have something to work on. Defense boost is far more widely neglected (for good reason), so it's mostly assured that your typical player will not be ready for this.
- the core question is whether or not it'll be "worth it" depending on all of: the rewards of GE5, the amount of defense it'd take to fight it, and the amount of nuisance it is to just negotiate it instead. Which is a tough formula to crack - and i have my doubts. But I do hope they succeed.
 

Owl II

Emperor
Whaha yeah, sure. Since when does the PvP arena offer:
1.) a decent, if not good chain building
2.) a temporary strong building
3.) exclusive buildings tight to the feature
4.) guild power
5.) trophies for the guild
6.) fighting with defence buffs only in PvP arena
I must've missed something for sure. The phantom PvP arena enhancement update must've slipped by me.xd Particularly my point 6, at live it must be exceptionally buggy. Cause I could use my red buffs while attacking other players in the PvP arena. o_O Also I've must gotten unlucky to the point of not getting those new shiny buildings and all other players at live must be equally unlucky as no one having them.
Could you share a link for that mysterious update for PvP arena?
Oh ah I see, at live I'm clicking on the PvP arena, you're talking about the PvPP arena, not sure how to unlock the PvPP arena
Do you know already what the parameters of these new buildings will be? Are you sure it will be higher than what GBG already gives? I may have missed this moment. Come on, come on, share it with the public. Show that all these wonderful buildings will not become new food for AD
 

Owl II

Emperor
Because it'd be good for the game if they succeeded. More desired stats to balance in development of a city = more interesting strategy in city building. I'd also love population, happiness, coins, and supplies to become more desirable again in some way :p

Will they succeed? I have my doubts. But I hope they do.

I think to some extent it'll have to be a battle by degrees. Where the threshold for GE5 if it's going to be the only valuable defense-required feature is going to have to be relatively low for some people to go "fine, i can do that" (and yes, a GBG fighter will absolutely steam roll that level of it in its original purpose as neighborhood defense).

But if it's valuable enough to be wanted and low enough that people start to adopt it, then next time they want to make defense matter maybe they can aim a little higher.

And even if it's not a real threat, a few hundred % defense boost being "normal" would improve the state of things - where maybe you *might* lose a unit at least attacking someone :p The threshold to do some damage to an attacker is much lower than the threshold to win a fight.

I think the primary interest they have in this for GE5 is as follows:

- people who really want GE5 want it to be a new challenge. But if they've already been working up their attack stats, it might well not be. There's a good chance it'd turn into 16 more free rewards per week immediately to those who want it most - and who needs that.
- so either GE5 has to require crazy high attack levels, or it needs to require something else so they have something to work on. Defense boost is far more widely neglected (for good reason), so it's mostly assured that your typical player will not be ready for this.
- the core question is whether or not it'll be "worth it" depending on all of: the rewards of GE5, the amount of defense it'd take to fight it, and the amount of nuisance it is to just negotiate it instead. Which is a tough formula to crack - and i have my doubts. But I do hope they succeed.
This unfortunate PVP arena could be interesting for many players if the developers had not tied it to the defense of the city. If they just removed all the boosts, as in the settlement of Egypt, for example. They can come up with a lot of options for the 5th level of GE, that will work. In particular, the fortifications that they have already introduced into the game could give a real level of def, and not a ridiculous 30%. But developers are again trying to fit the cow under the saddle...

Like you, I would like the amazing balance of many components that was present in the game at the start to return to the game. Alas, it is irretrievably lost. And there was nothing in return, just an attack, attack, attack. Oh, yes. Still arс-180 and vacuum all available GB
 
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drakenridder

Emperor
Perk Creator
Do you know already what the parameters of these new buildings will be? Are you sure it will be higher than what GBG already gives? I may have missed this moment. Come on, come on, share it with the public. Show that all these wonderful buildings will not become new food for AD
It ain't be hard to be better than GbF. A statue producing a couple of fps, chains offering just 5% defence + goods. While being farmed in mass. Yeah I'm pretty sure it'll be way better than that. Particularly since it's supposed to harder to obtain, since you have to beat GE4 first. Besides that since when where temporary buildings weak to begin with?
 

drakenridder

Emperor
Perk Creator
If they just removed all the boosts, as in the settlement of Egypt, for example. They can come up with a lot of options for the 5th level of GE, that will work.
That's what I've pointed out a couple of times. It's way easier to balance and making everything equally hard for everyone in GE5 when all bonuses and benefits from military GBs are out of the occasion. From that it's much easier to design something equally challenging. Problem however I think is they're failing to see the potential in that. Tunnel visioned on events. Even though they could very well selling GE-passes to unlocking the most powerful premium fortifications in GE5 for example to making as easy as possible, granted they would listen for a change and would make fights and negotiations like ancient Egypt/Feudal Japan.
 
granted they would listen for a change and would make fights and negotiations like ancient Egypt/Feudal Japan.

Is there any difference from Feudal Japan Negotiations to any other Negotiation though? Maybe except for the forth turn you can buy for GE, which is Necessary in my Opinion because Negotiations with 10 Options would be quite impossible to solve in 3 Turns
 

drakenridder

Emperor
Perk Creator
Is there any difference from Feudal Japan Negotiations to any other Negotiation though? Maybe except for the forth turn you can buy for GE, which is Necessary in my Opinion because Negotiations with 10 Options would be quite impossible to solve in 3 Turns
Yes; tavern buff in GE. Though it also doesn't apply to GbF neg. I meant it more like also that buff been excluded of the GE5 scenario.
 

Dessire

Regent
They won't start. The thing that the developers don't understand: the mechanism for defending the city was made for another game. That game didn't contain GE, GBG, or even GvG. There was no "auto battle" button in that game. There were only neighbors. And there was some balance between defense and attack. But all this was broken at the moment when special buildings with attack have been added to the game. And when devs forced the players to increase the max attack for GBG, the mechanism of defense of the city was finally buried. Currently, there is no such defence that a player who beats GBG with a attrition of 100, +- could not break through. So, we can not remember at all about the defence of the city in its initial sense. And they should introduce rewards comparable to GBG to make this parameter somewhat attractive to players. But we know that won't happen. But if it happens, it will be another of the greatest stupidity of development
The devs forced players to increase players attack? How? If that is true, then, how players like me can play the game without problems with 500% of attack and still produce more than 2100 FPs per day and earn arround 400 diamonds per week without doing GbG?

Devs did not and are not forcing you or any other player to have a lot of attack, players themselves force their cities to have more and more attack when it is not necessary to produce tons of Fps and goods, and if yoy think that the most efficient way to win in GBG to any other guild is having a lot of attack, let me tell you that you are totally wrong and there are proofs in FoE reddit about how a player can defeat any top guild in diamond league with a poor amount of attack without problems, that player only needs s lot of patience and time to achive that.
 
Yes; tavern buff in GE. Though it also doesn't apply to GbF neg. I meant it more like also that buff been excluded of the GE5 scenario.

Would that be balanced though? Even the Daily Quest Negotiations give you a 4th turn by default for negotiations with 7+ options, simply because the chance to solve it in 3 turns would be super low.

Like to compare it with a fighting Scenario, 3 Turns for 5 Options would be 1 full wave of enemies, 3 turns for 7 Options would be a full second army - still doable, but you have to be lucky in terms of battlefield, enemy composition, etc. and then 3 turns for 10 options would be like an added 3rd wave of 8 enemies. Super hard and only solvable if you’ve been very lucky in the first two rounds.
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
Often, not always

Could be, yes but wouldn't that be part of balancing GE5 leaning on fortifications? Wouldn't it be counterintuitive if you could just buy it from tavern for GE5?:eek:
Perhaps there'll be even more options in GE5 such that you may want a 5th turn with both a fortification and a tavern buff? It would be counterintuitive if the buff in tavern that says it's for "guild expedition negotiations" didn't actually work on all guild expedition negotiations. So I assume they'll balance around the idea that it's running.
 

drakenridder

Emperor
Perk Creator
Would that be balanced though? Even the Daily Quest Negotiations give you a 4th turn by default for negotiations with 7+ options, simply because the chance to solve it in 3 turns would be super low.

Like to compare it with a fighting Scenario, 3 Turns for 5 Options would be 1 full wave of enemies, 3 turns for 7 Options would be a full second army - still doable, but you have to be lucky in terms of battlefield, enemy composition, etc. and then 3 turns for 10 options would be like an added 3rd wave of 8 enemies. Super hard and only solvable if you’ve been very lucky in the first two rounds.
Actually with armies you just need sufficient amount of more military buffs. EG with 100%+ you can pretty much have 2 full waves of units and still winning with no issue, if they don’t have a buff. Even so, who says GE5 negotiations will have by default 3 turns? For all we know it could be 4 like DQ.
Either way, most importantly is that they’re trying to giving defence buffs a useful function with GE5. Yet they’re forgetting that if they would go for no buffs from main city like ancient Egypt, they could’ve develop a better balance for everyone an equal challenge. Even the ability to renewable selling premium fortifications. Although at first glance it appears to be a fun-ish gimmick to overcome, all it takes are a few phantom towers and you’re good to go forever. Never needing fortifications at all afterwards. At least assuming it plays out like GE4 but with defence buffs instead of attacking buffs for the army.
Perhaps there'll be even more options in GE5 such that you may want a 5th turn with both a fortification and a tavern buff? It would be counterintuitive if the buff in tavern that says it's for "guild expedition negotiations" didn't actually work on all guild expedition negotiations. So I assume they'll balance around the idea that it's running.
I haven’t seen that in the video but would’ve been an obscure detail that could’ve slipped by. Perhaps you should ask someone who’ve saved the deleted video? I assume that they know how to balancing it, to also ensuring a challenge for negotiations.
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
I haven’t seen that in the video but would’ve been an obscure detail that could’ve slipped by. Perhaps you should ask someone who’ve saved the deleted video? I assume that they know how to balancing it, to also ensuring a challenge for negotiations.
I've no knowledge of the video - and any of my speculation is just that - speculation :)

I wouldn't treat said video as an exact copy of what we'll get necessarily anyways for such finer points as "number of options in a given negotiation". As it wouldn't be abnormal for balance-related things to change between when the video was recorded and beta release. Conceptually I'm sure it is what it is by now, but they still might be tweaking.
 
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