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Rejected New Chain Ability

Status
Not open for further replies.
Reason
Provide enhancement to ways to configure Chain Set buildings, to bring more city design options to the players.
Details
See proposal and examples included above.
Balance
No issues balance detected.
Abuse Prevention
None identified.
Summary
Create a New Chain ability thats allows the Main building to be at any position in the row or column.
Have you looked to see if this has already been suggested?
DNSL reviewed. No issues detected. Other proposals related to Set Buildings or Chain buildings are different to this one.
Visual Aids
None.
Current: Certain sets are designed with a Chain ability which requires to build first a main building and then add the secondary buildings in a row or column after the main building. The main building has to be at the start of the row or column.
Example: Winter Train(WT), then a row of train cars (TC) at the right side of the train: WT-TC-TC-TC-TC- .....
Example: Statue of Honor (SOH), then a column of Roads to Victory (RTV) at the front of the SOH.
SOH
RTV
RTV
....

Proposed: Create a New Chain ability thats allows the Main building to be at any position in the row or column. For example, if applied to the SOH/ RTVs they could be set in a column starting with a few RTV, then the SHO in the middle and then follow with more RTV. Please note: SOH/RTV is used just as an example, the proposal is for a variety of the Chain ability for future buildings sets, not necessarily to change the SOH/RTV current Chain ability.
 
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This suggestion has been closed. Votes are no longer accepted.

SlytherinAttack

Baronet
Baking Sudoku Master
Not sure how the design of the main building will get fit with the chains set. For example, Hippdrome or Terracotta Vineyard.
 

Sl8yer

Regent
How is this not DNS?

It is making the game easier to start with, cause you will make it easier to place sets.

It can be seen as similar to rotating buildings, cause you want to fit the set in a different shaped place.
 

CrashBoom

Legend
the settlement already has multiply chain/set mechanics
the one in front, the other on can be on both sides
and the production buildings as set where you want
 
Not sure how the design of the main building will get fit with the chains set. For example, Hippdrome or Terracotta Vineyard.

My proposal is aimed at new chain sets, not proposing to be applied to current sets like the Hippodrome Chain set. If Inno decides to modify any current chain set that is open to them.

If Inno choose to apply the change to the Terracota Vineyard, then the fields could be some in the front and some in the back, setting the main building somewhere in the middle of the column. That would look more realistic, farms, vineyards etc many times have fields around their main buildings (house, barns, etc.), not the main buildings at a corner and fields in a long column front of them.
 
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How is this not DNS?
It is making the game easier to start with, cause you will make it easier to place sets.
It can be seen as similar to rotating buildings, cause you want to fit the set in a different shaped place.

First, the Statue of Honor / Road to Victory chain set was used as an example to illustrate the idea, not a proposal to change the Chain mechanic applied there. So, Im not proposing to make the current game easier, current game stays as it is.

Proposing this for future sets to be incorporated to the game is not making the game easier since those future buildings are not part of the game yet, not part of the difficulty level the game has.

Rotating? Im not proposing any rotation of buildings. If the expanded definition of "Rotation" you use is correct then the DSNL should be edited by the developers and a Rev. 2 officially published.
 
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Sl8yer

Regent
First, the Statue of Honor / Road to Victory chain set was used as an example to illustrate the idea, not a proposal to change the Chain mechanic applied there. So, Im not proposing to make the current game easier, current game stays as it is.

It is already there for other sets. It really is "set" dependent how the set is chained, so there is no need to suggest it for future sets.

Proposing this for future sets to be incorporated to the game is not making the game easier since those future buildings are not part of the game yet, not part of the difficulty level the game has.

DNS New buildings or items. Buildings and items are decided upon according to a feature, event, era and need to ensure they are balanced within the game
 
Again, I'm not proposing a new Building or Item, just another way or option to design future "chain" sets. We already have seen:
Chain 1: Main Building at the extreme left, secondary buildings in a row at the right of the main building. (Example: Winter Train/Train Cars)
Chain 2: Main Building at the top, secondary buildings below the Main Building forming a column (Example: Statue of Honor/Roads to Victory).
Chain 3: Two Main Buildings, one at extreme right, one at extreme left, secondary buildings in the middle of the row (Hippodrome).

Have we seen a Chain set that has the Main Building at the center of a row or column? No? Then why I cant suggest that for a future set?
 

Emberguard

Emperor
Inno is already introducing different variations within the definition of sets and chains (Eg: Harvest barn, Hippodrome etc).

So I wouldn’t be surprised if we see your idea regardless of what happens with this proposal

Again, I'm not proposing a new Building or Item, just another way or option to design future "chain" sets.
Have we seen a Chain set that has the Main Building at the center of a row or column? No? Then why I cant suggest that for a future set?
Personally I‘m fine with the idea, but I don’t see how this isn’t suggesting a new building be introduced to the game given you’re not changing the mechanics of existing rewards. That’s pretty much what suggesting a new building is: another way to design a future building
 
For me if suggesting a new building the proposal should have :
  1. Building Name and Description (sample image if available).
  2. Type: Residential, Supply Production, Goods Production, Military Barrack, Cultural, Decoration, Road, or Great Building
  3. Category: Regular, Special/Event, Premium
  4. Age: Era, No Age or All Ages
  5. Rewards: with details of:
    1. Resource(s) or active/passive boosts/ amount given,
    2. Production/Collection Time,
    3. Rewards to be impacted by:
      1. motivation or polishing actions?,
      2. plundering?
      3. GBs or Tavern Boosts?,
      4. if built at the side of another specific Building(s) (building part of a set or chain)?
      5. multiple levels
  6. Size / Shape / Orientation
  7. Costs
  8. Road connection requirements: Single Road, Double Wide Road, or No Road required.
  9. Location: Possible to be built at: City, Settlements, Colony, Exterior of city (Tavern, Hubs, Spaceports, Castle System, etc.)
  10. Specify any other special design feature like: plunderable (Y/N)?, upgradable by One Up or Reno Kits?.
Without that you don't have a Building suggested, at best just a "half cooked" idea. For good examples of what a building proposal looks like go to the Fantasy GBs Wish List thread for proposals of new buildings, this time Great Buildings, where the "fantasy" thing is been able to proposed a building without the upcoming reply "You cant proposed this because it is DSNL".
https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/fantasy-gb-wish-list.13193/

I'm not requesting which rewards a new un-named, unclassified, building with unknown size/shape/orientation or costs, that will be part of a future chain set will give. Not suggestion if it be a City, Colony, Exterior of city or Settlement building. Not proposing to be non plunderable, or to have multiple levels. I left all that to the developers to decide if designing a building with the chain ability I'm suggesting.
 
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Sl8yer

Regent

Outlaw Dread

Baronet
I can see @Darrth Eugene Vader3 point sort of. (and, If we are going to be nitpicky, a future set is not a new building (singular) but a set of new buildings.)

Much more to the point, proposing a new building means just that: A building of this size and shape, which provides these productions A & B, this boost C, and when motivated it can give D, E and/or F; and when chained to others in the set, you get an additional boost of G.

Altering the mechanics of chaining, to make cities more visually appealing and coherent, could (and really should) be a valid proposal for a city-building game.

However, altering the mechanics of chaining should not make the game easier.

It is possible to think of ways of doing that. E.g.: regardless of how you organize the set, the top right corner and bottom left one must have a road connection. That means that the shape can’t be altered, or only altered as long as the restrictions on road connections are followed. Or making a minimum number of road connections mandatory for any set.

And we already have sets which allow multiple ways of configuring them, so this is well in line with existing mechanics. I really can’t see a problem with asking for visual appeal and logical coherency to be criteria for devs when designing future sets.
 
You are. You are just not willing to admit it
  • We agree to disagree.
  • Point is documented, noted.

Indian Palace set
  • Not applicable, the Indian Palace Set, like the Cherry Garden Set, and Harvest Farm Set (to mention a few) do not have the CHAIN ability. There are just regular sets, not CHAIN sets.
  • My idea is about future CHAIN Sets similar to the current Winter Train, Hippodrome, Statue of Honor, and Terracota Vineyard sets.
  • My idea don't try to change current CHAIN sets.

However, altering the mechanics of chaining should not make the game easier.

  • Future undeveloped CHAIN sets do not have (yet) an original design, after designed and implemented they receive an original design, lets call it Revision 0.
  • After Revision 0 exists then changes can follow and we can have a Revision 1.
How could anyone propose to change/alter the mechanics of chaining (Revision 1) to a Future CHAIN set that is not yet designed /implemented, i.e. without a Revision 0???

As Emberguard has pointed out (see post #10) INNO does not have just one mechanic of chaining, so far each CHAIN set implemented has a different mechanic displayed.
  • Who can say which chaining mechanism will they use next? (No one, we can only guess and watch out for spoilers).
  • Who can say Inno cant repeat a previous one with just one building requiring road connection after the Hippodrome with two buildings requiring Road connection? (As a matter of Fact they repeated the Terracota Vineyard Chain Mechanic at the new CHAIN set at the Summer Event soon arriving to live servers.)
  • Are Inno forced to make each new CHAIN set more complex than the previous one? Next one after Hippodrome must be more difficult to build, with more requirements or limitations? (No, see above, 2021 Summer Event chain set has less road connection Requirements than Hippodrome that was released before, therefore easier to build).

My proposal is for them use to a new one. And since my idea is not proposing to be applied to any current CHAIN set then I'm not proposing to alter any mechanic of chaining, (I'm not proposing a Revision 1, just a new Revision 0).
 
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Sl8yer

Regent
Not applicable, the Indian Palace Set, like the Cherry Garden Set, and Harvest Farm Set (to mention a few) do not have the CHAIN ability. There are just regular sets, not CHAIN sets

Then how come many players are chaining them? How is that possible if they do not have the ability?


My idea is about future CHAIN Sets similar to the current Winter Train, Hippodrome, Statue of Honor, and Terracota Vineyard sets.

Future sets, so new buildings.
 
Then how come many players are chaining them? How is that possible if they do not have the ability?

There are Normal sets and Sets with Chain Ability.

Examples:
  • Normal Sets: Cherry Garden Set, Indian Palace, Elephant Fountain, Harvest Farm, there are more
  • Chain Sets: Winter Train, Status of Honor, Hippodrome, Terracota Vineyard, Summer 2021 Event set (forgot the name)
Differences:
  • Normal sets:
    • After you place the first building at the grid, the requirement is to place the next one in any position where the two buildings touch each other at least at one square (if the Player want the boosts offered by the set). If there are more buildings to place then look for a position to locate the 3rd building touching as many of the other set buildings possible. also considering road requirements of each piece.
    • Just one square of connection between two set buildings is enough, in any place around them.
    • Example: Build the Emperor Entrance. Then add the N. Pond. The Player is free to add the N. Pond at any location around the Emperor Entrance, just make sure both are touching each other. Add the Gong, better if it touches both the Emperor Entrance and the N Pond. and continue with the Sakura Tree and the Zen Garden. Be sure to provide roads to Emperor entrance and Zen Garden, Multiple layout variations can be done with the full set of 5 pieces. Best layout forms a 5x5 area with Gong at the Center.
  • CHAIN sets:
    • Place the Main building at the grid. the game will mark a area of space tiles in a white/gray background where the next building of the CHAIN set must be build to (this don't happen to Regular Sets).
    • Place the next CHAIN set building. If placed out of the marked area this building will not be linked to the set and the boost of the CHAIN set will not consider this building.
    • Example: Build the Winter Train, ensure road connection. First Train car must be aligned to the Winter Train at the right side (not at top, below or left side). If the car is misaligned or at any other position the CHAIN set will not work, Second Train Car must be placed aligned to the first Train Car and at the right side, and so on forming a straight line from the Train at the extreme left followed by a series of Train Cars at the right. If adding more Train Cars not at the right of last Train Car but at any another position, say forming an L shape, the Cars not on the straight line are not counted as part of the set for reward bonus.
  • You cant have different layouts for the Winter Train set (the only difference will be the number of cars added), but all Winter Train sets will look the same, straight line, Train at extreme Left, cars aligned to the right. In a Regular set you can find multiple layout variations of the set.
The CHAIN ability is that design feature of a CHAIN set that forces the Player to build it in a particular way only (relative positions of the Main Building and the secondary building of the same set). It is not about building two or more Regular Sets one at the side of the other or one on top of the other, which some players call "chaining", that is not the CHAIN ability INNO implemented later (first with the Winter Train) we are discussing here. Building two Indian Palaces (4x4) with six (6) 2x2 additional Indian Set buildings, with the Palaces sharing two of the 2x2 pieces separating them to have the 4x4 Palaces at full reward boosts is not the CHAIN ability were are talking about here.

Future sets, so new buildings.
Lets agree to disagree. Propose a change in a building design characteristic/element/mechanic is not Proposing a building. Your opinion is documented and noted. Mine too. Do we need to continue repeating this on and on and on?
 
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Fire Lord

Squire
No. What you are asking would allow someone to put two winter trains and collect double the rewards from the train cars in the middle. Same with the other buildings, vineyard, pirate hideout, etc.
 

SlytherinAttack

Baronet
Baking Sudoku Master
No. What you are asking would allow someone to put two winter trains and collect double the rewards from the train cars in the middle. Same with the other buildings, vineyard, pirate hideout, etc.
Valid point. Want to try out this with SOH's road to victory like both the ends of road to victory has SOH. Guessing like SOH road to victory can be placed up or down from the SOH already. Not sure.
 

Sl8yer

Regent
Then how come many players are chaining them? How is that possible if they do not have the ability?

There are Normal sets and Sets with Chain Ability.

Examples:
  • Normal Sets: Cherry Garden Set, Indian Palace, Elephant Fountain, Harvest Farm, there are more
  • Chain Sets: Winter Train, Status of Honor, Hippodrome, Terracota Vineyard, Summer 2021 Event set (forgot the name)
Differences:
  • Normal sets:
    • After you place the first building at the grid, the requirement is to place the next one in any position where the two buildings touch each other at least at one square (if the Player want the boosts offered by the set). If there are more buildings to place then look for a position to locate the 3rd building touching as many of the other set buildings possible. also considering road requirements of each piece.
    • Just one square of connection between two set buildings is enough, in any place around them.
    • Example: Build the Emperor Entrance. Then add the N. Pond. The Player is free to add the N. Pond at any location around the Emperor Entrance, just make sure both are touching each other. Add the Gong, better if it touches both the Emperor Entrance and the N Pond. and continue with the Sakura Tree and the Zen Garden. Be sure to provide roads to Emperor entrance and Zen Garden, Multiple layout variations can be done with the full set of 5 pieces. Best layout forms a 5x5 area with Gong at the Center.
  • CHAIN sets:
    • Place the Main building at the grid. the game will mark a area of space tiles in a white/gray background where the next building of the CHAIN set must be build to (this don't happen to Regular Sets).
    • Place the next CHAIN set building. If placed out of the marked area this building will not be linked to the set and the boost of the CHAIN set will not consider this building.
    • Example: Build the Winter Train, ensure road connection. First Train car must be aligned to the Winter Train at the right side (not at top, below or left side). If the car is misaligned or at any other position the CHAIN set will not work, Second Train Car must be placed aligned to the first Train Car and at the right side, and so on forming a straight line from the Train at the extreme left followed by a series of Train Cars at the right. If adding more Train Cars not at the right of last Train Car but at any another position, say forming an L shape, the Cars not on the straight line are not counted as part of the set for reward bonus.
  • You cant have different layouts for the Winter Train set (the only difference will be the number of cars added), but all Winter Train sets will look the same, straight line, Train at extreme Left, cars aligned to the right. In a Regular set you can find multiple layout variations of the set.
The CHAIN ability is that design feature of a CHAIN set that forces the Player to build it in a particular way only (relative positions of the Main Building and the secondary building of the same set). It is not about building two or more Regular Sets one at the side of the other or one on top of the other, which some players call "chaining", that is not the CHAIN ability INNO implemented later (first with the Winter Train) we are discussing here. Building two Indian Palaces (4x4) with six (6) 2x2 additional Indian Set buildings, with the Palaces sharing two of the 2x2 pieces separating them to have the 4x4 Palaces at full reward boosts is not the CHAIN ability were are talking about here.

Future sets, so new buildings.
Lets agree to disagree. Propose a change in a building design characteristic/element/mechanic is not Proposing a building. Your opinion is documented and noted. Mine too. Do we need to continue repeating this on and on and on?

Love the colors, but all sets have the chain ability. You can chain them.
 
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