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Discussion Minimum time for interactions

kawada

Marquis
Seems like the player in question was banned. For how long, I can't tell, but his numbers stopped, doubt it's just a coincidence of him going on a vacation or something...

seems like he’s active again since October 29.
 
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ArklurBeta

Baronet
He might be back, but as I see, based on the graph, he changed his "playstyle". Can be a very temporary thing though, worth to check back in a month or so :p
 
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Juber

Overlord
Community Manager
This is really necessary.
Check the timestamp.

[...] removed code

And this is what I managed to find

Same guild.

[...] removed code
From when is this data? This should not be possible anymore.
 
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Energy

Farmer
From when is this data? This should not be possible anymore.
This is real data, from November 1 and 2. From a live server. You can add more information in the answer and I'll leave it here in case you want to validate that this really happens and that I'm not making it up.

It is not very difficult to implement the original idea. I don't think it will exceed 2 points from a US.

By the way, if they add player information in GB's answers, I try to do the same. But with the "participantId", it is very difficult
 

Enyyx

Farmer
First time caught cheating should be a two week ban...
Second time cheating should be permanent ban... imho
I totally agree with you MJ! Cheating is frustrating and drags whole servers down when certain players ruin the fun for everyone.
Like others in this thread, our guild has been observing this player on Z actively cheating and we would like inno to do something about it but so far no action has been taken.
[...] removed code and player
 
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Juber

Overlord
Community Manager
I went through this thread again and decided to remove every bit of code (containing player ids) and links to player statistics. The reason for that is, that we don't want to "expose" players, that are completely unaware of this thread and might even be innocent. If you find proof, please report it to the support team for that server.
You are free to discuss this topic here, but please don't mention specific players here anymore, thank you.
 

kawada

Marquis
I went through this thread again and decided to remove every bit of code (containing player ids) and links to player statistics. The reason for that is, that we don't want to "expose" players, that are completely unaware of this thread and might even be innocent. If you find proof, please report it to the support team for that server.
You are free to discuss this topic here, but please don't mention specific players here anymore, thank you.

aren’t provided codes and stats sufficient enough, though?

From when is this data? This should not be possible anymore.

and this is still an unresolved concern.
 

Energy

Farmer
I went through this thread again and decided to remove every bit of code (containing player ids) and links to player statistics. The reason for that is, that we don't want to "expose" players, that are completely unaware of this thread and might even be innocent. If you find proof, please report it to the support team for that server.
You are free to discuss this topic here, but please don't mention specific players here anymore, thank you.
If I do not give evidence, the idea of the minimum time is not taken into consideration. If I give proof, you delete it.

My message did not contain code. It is the response from the server in JSON format. And it is public for any user since it is by broadcast.

I've been reporting for a month. I came up with an idea and we can play "fair", and they close the suggestion.

Sorry, but what should I do? Use the same script? Make my own script? I really don't understand.

Today was the same, I don't even want to play GB or GvG anymore. 1 bot, 160 battles in 3 minutes every 4 hours no matter what time it is.
And in GB there is no way to give proof. I already delivered the video of how they do it, but a video is not evidence.
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
If I do not give evidence, the idea of the minimum time is not taken into consideration. If I give proof, you delete it.

My message did not contain code. It is the response from the server in JSON format. And it is public for any user since it is by broadcast.

I've been reporting for a month. I came up with an idea and we can play "fair", and they close the suggestion.

Sorry, but what should I do? Use the same script? Make my own script? I really don't understand.

Today was the same, I don't even want to play GB or GvG anymore. 1 bot, 160 battles in 3 minutes every 4 hours no matter what time it is.
And in GB there is no way to give proof. I already delivered the video of how they do it, but a video is not evidence.

The reason he deleted the proof was that it was personally identifying (i.e. with work someone can track the id# in your message back to an account name) - and by policy that can't be talked about on the forums (which is a very normal policy amongst online games these days). I was surprised it lasted as long as it did (especially considering some people *did* post who the id#s in question were)

You could maybe post the JSON log with all id #s replaced by <redacted> or something so that it's just an example of what it looks like and not an accusation against a specific player.

Closing the suggestion and moving it to discussion because "GvG is DNSL" was a bit silly though since it's not limited to GvG, that's just where you drew your proof from.

As for what you can do, keep sending reports and pray mostly :p It'll be about as effective as anything else (as unsatisfying as the process may be where they can't even tell you about whether your report led to any actions - but that's also normal policy amongst online games these days).
 

ArklurBeta

Baronet
If I do not give evidence, the idea of the minimum time is not taken into consideration. If I give proof, you delete it.

Pretty much what @xivarmy said. You need to separate the 2 things. I highly doubt this is the case, but it would be kinda easy to edit the JSON you shared, put a different PlayerId there, blame a very active player to be a cheater, giving him bad reputation. Again, not saying that's the case, but there is a good reason that calling out cheaters publicly, e.g. on the forum, isn't tolerated. We can argue whether it's a good or bad thing to do, but that's how it is.

As stated, you can still share the JSON, showing the timestamps, just obfuscate the IDs, so one can not point out the exact player. It's a good thing you can have those data what you can share with support, and you can still share it with us, so we are aware that this is still on ongoing issue, it is still possible somehow to fight without interacting with the UI.

And again, just as many others, I'm with you regarding the topic of fighting cheaters and think Inno isn't putting enough effort to stop the cheating...they should have enough resources (bot human and $$$) to fight this, but for whatever reason, sadly, it's not on their top priorities list :(. They might work on it, they did change something, but clearly not done (which was somewhat expected...).

What makes me wonder the most is how hard can it be to monitor player activity with a shifting-window, flag players who do too many actions. I know it would cause server resources, but...it's 2022, doubt the technology can't provide a solution that works without killing the servers.
 

beelzebob666

Overlord
Pathfinder
Spoiler Poster
Against the "bot-click" there is a very easy solution:
software that detects when you always click on the same pixels!
Although this might block mouse recorder, I believe that more elaborate clickbots nowadays are aware of that trivial check and slightly vary the click position within given parameters.

A better check would be to track the complete mouse movement - but even that can be faked to a certain degree
 

ArklurBeta

Baronet
Compared to actually scripting, bot-clicking isn't that much of a big deal. I guess it can be still used for RQs, and would be nice to fix and detect it, fast fighting affects the gameplay much more, especially regarding GvG and GBG. It's very hard to fight someone who is cheating and do 5x-10x (?) more than you can do.

Plus, I believe it's likely much harder to detect "same pixel clicking", I wonder if Inno even has that data now...? I mean, I assume they could get the data, but - again, assumption - they don't, because the only purpose of it would be to detect bot-clicking, something they clearly don't care about. On the other hand, I would be surprised if players' action wouldn't be logged, but since players are not auto-banned based on their speed of actions...this might mean they don't log it, because based on the logs, it would be a pretty simple job to flag scripters
 

Energy

Farmer
That seems fine to me.
I don't know if this counts as evidence. But I'm going to leave it here. I know you're going to be tempted to say there were 9 players making a single attack. But it was not like that.
Explanation:
1 only player, with very bad connection and a very slow computer.
GB: 1 click -> 9 attacks in 5.4s

Code:
[{"responseData":[{"id":52,"victoryPoints":37,"conquestProgress":[{"participantId":13454,"progress":114,"maxProgress":160,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundConquestProgress"}],"totalBuildingSlots":1,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundProvince"}],"requestClass":"GuildBattlegroundService","requestMethod":"getProvinces","__class__":"ServerResponse"}]    340  
08:48:33.982
[{"responseData":[{"id":52,"victoryPoints":37,"conquestProgress":[{"participantId":13454,"progress":115,"maxProgress":160,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundConquestProgress"}],"totalBuildingSlots":1,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundProvince"}],"requestClass":"GuildBattlegroundService","requestMethod":"getProvinces","__class__":"ServerResponse"}]    340  
08:48:34.664
[{"responseData":[{"id":52,"victoryPoints":37,"conquestProgress":[{"participantId":13454,"progress":116,"maxProgress":160,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundConquestProgress"}],"totalBuildingSlots":1,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundProvince"}],"requestClass":"GuildBattlegroundService","requestMethod":"getProvinces","__class__":"ServerResponse"}]    340  
08:48:35.350
[{"responseData":[{"id":52,"victoryPoints":37,"conquestProgress":[{"participantId":13454,"progress":117,"maxProgress":160,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundConquestProgress"}],"totalBuildingSlots":1,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundProvince"}],"requestClass":"GuildBattlegroundService","requestMethod":"getProvinces","__class__":"ServerResponse"}]    340  
08:48:35.894
[{"responseData":[{"id":52,"victoryPoints":37,"conquestProgress":[{"participantId":13454,"progress":118,"maxProgress":160,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundConquestProgress"}],"totalBuildingSlots":1,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundProvince"}],"requestClass":"GuildBattlegroundService","requestMethod":"getProvinces","__class__":"ServerResponse"}]    340  
08:48:36.595
[{"responseData":[{"id":52,"victoryPoints":37,"conquestProgress":[{"participantId":13454,"progress":119,"maxProgress":160,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundConquestProgress"}],"totalBuildingSlots":1,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundProvince"}],"requestClass":"GuildBattlegroundService","requestMethod":"getProvinces","__class__":"ServerResponse"}]    340  
08:48:37.126
[{"responseData":[{"id":52,"victoryPoints":37,"conquestProgress":[{"participantId":13454,"progress":120,"maxProgress":160,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundConquestProgress"}],"totalBuildingSlots":1,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundProvince"}],"requestClass":"GuildBattlegroundService","requestMethod":"getProvinces","__class__":"ServerResponse"}]    340  
08:48:38.327
[{"responseData":[{"id":52,"victoryPoints":37,"conquestProgress":[{"participantId":13454,"progress":121,"maxProgress":160,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundConquestProgress"}],"totalBuildingSlots":1,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundProvince"}],"requestClass":"GuildBattlegroundService","requestMethod":"getProvinces","__class__":"ServerResponse"}]    340  
08:48:38.858
[{"responseData":[{"id":52,"victoryPoints":37,"conquestProgress":[{"participantId":13454,"progress":122,"maxProgress":160,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundConquestProgress"}],"totalBuildingSlots":1,"__class__":"GuildBattlegroundProvince"}],"requestClass":"GuildBattlegroundService","requestMethod":"getProvinces","__class__":"ServerResponse"}]    340  
08:48:39.392

PS: I was talking to the "player" when he did this...

Edit:
participantId is not player_id or guild_id.
It is a value autogenerated by inno when registering a guild on the GB
 
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