Late middle ages culture/production buildings way weak?

[DeletedUser]

So I just did some maths on the Late middle age culture and production building and found out that they are way below the curve from earlier ages and really not worth bothering with.

Here's some maths.

High Middle Ages: Farm: 36,5 production/square
Late Middle Ages: Cooperage: 40,83 production/square
Late Middle Ages: Brewery: 44,44 production/square

To upgrade for example 3 farms to 5 Cooperage (they take up the same space in your city) I have to pay a whooping 305k gold and 54k supplies, that will increase my supply production from 2190/h to 2450/h. An increase with 260/h or by almost 12%. This means it will take me 207h or more then 8 days to break even after upgrading my farms. In 8 days I will almost need to upgrade my Cooperage to Breweries instead so why build them in the first place? Why not just invest all that 305k gold in forge points instead and research Breweries?

That's just the numbers, a farm benefits more from motivations by other players then Cooperage due to size and are more easy to fit on the edges so they are even more beneficial then just looking at pure numbers.

So the question remains why should I even bother building a Cooperage?

Same problem exists with Cartographer they provide almost the same happiness as the Doctor from the high middle ages but cost a lot more. Is this intended or why they are so weak?

 

[DeletedUser]

It's not only a problem of LMA
I always built the best buildings from age. Eg. I built no alchemist, but farm. I built no tannery, but shoemaker... and so on.
It's ur choice what u build. So of course it is better to build only academy, than a cartograph.

But there must be a variety of buildings u can choose There are players who don't build for effectiveness, but for good looking ^^

I have to say: LMA is a special case. Because: After conquering the LMA provinces there are a lot of ... ineffective quests like:
1) build LMA houses. 2) have a farm, a doctor and a alchemist. 3) build a cartograph 4) have 2 academies and 2 libaries. 5) produce [...] (sth. from the Cooperage). and so on.... the most of these quests u can't abort.

I think there are about... 4-5 quests with a cartograph

 

[DeletedUser]

It's not only a problem of LMA

Actually it's just a problem with Late Middle Ages. Check this out.

Bronze
Pottery: 4,16/Square
Fruit Farm: 6,5/Square (56% Increase, new players upgrade your potteries asap)
Blacksmith: 8/Square ( 23% Increase)

Iron:
Goat Farm: 11/Square (37,5% Increase)
Butcher: 13,3/Square (20% Increase)

Early Middle Ages:
Tannery: 17,7/Square (33% Increase)
Shoemaker: 23,3/Square (31% Increase)

High Middle Ages:
Alchemy: 30/Square (28% Increase)
Farm: 36,5/Square (21% Increase)

Late Middle Ages:
Cooperage: 40,8/Square (11% Increase) <------------------ Something is really wrong here!!!

Butcher is a tad weak production wise but cost less resources then a Goat Farm so its understandable. Regular farms are a bit weak as well but farms are large and that has more advantages then the small alchemist that you replace. As you can see, you want to upgrade your production buildings as soon as you unlock them. That is, until you reach Cooperage in LMA.

To be in line with the curve Cooperage should produce around 43,8/Square. As it stands now it's almost twice as bad as earlier upgrades. Now is this intended or did someone just make a wrong calculation here?

 

[DeletedUser]

You are looking at it the wrong way. Yeah they are not much "better" in terms of production per square meter, but for example if I still have leftover shoemaker or tannery I can replace them with cooperage and gain over 100% per square.

I mean just like you don't replace public bath with market or inn, you replace public bath with academy for example and even then you could use public bath.

So not all buildings are made to be changed each age.

I usually build pottery> fruit farm>goat farm>shoemaker>farm... I have 2 shoemakers left and those I'm going to replace with a 3x3 cooperage.

 

[DeletedUser]

You are looking at it the wrong way. Yeah they are not much "better" in terms of production per square meter, but for example if I still have leftover shoemaker or tannery I can replace them with cooperage and gain over 100% per square.

True, if you have old tanneries sure. But why not replace your shoemakers with farms/alchemists when you unlock them instead? A cooperage cost way to much for so little supply/square so they are not worth building, upgrade your old shoemaker/tanneries to alchemists instead if you can't afford farms and wait for breweries. You are making a better decision to skip cooperage and wait for Breweries (see maths above). Same goes for cartographer since they are so weak they are not worth the investment.

I mean just like you don't replace public bath with market or inn, you replace public bath with academy for example and even then you could use public bath.

Why shouldn't I replace my baths with markets asap? Marketplaces are way more effective then baths generating 47,7 happiness/square while a bath only generates 35,625/square. One Marketplace is almost 34% more effective then a bath. A bath in your town at the High/Late middle ages is very poor value per square and makes your town inefficient. Try to avoid that.

It seems from your post that you are hesitant to rearrange your town to fit the new better buildings. It's no coincidence that the better buildings you unlock almost always differ in size, hence forcing you to rearrange your town regularly if you want to maximize your towns efficiency so you can afford better buildings.

I usually build pottery> fruit farm>goat farm>shoemaker>farm... I have 2 shoemakers left and those I'm going to replace with a 3x3 cooperage.

If you have the money you really shouldn't skip alchemists since they are well worth the upgrade. And you should wait for breweries instead.

You mention that not all buildings are made to be changed each age. While it true that you can skip some unlocked building due to your research path because they will not have a big enough windows to be worthwhile to replace. Its always better to upgrade new buildings if you play enough so you can afford them, that is until you reach the LMA and the reason of this topic. We shouldn't have buildings in the tech tree that are basically a trap, like some of the LMA buildings currently are.

 

[DeletedUser]

On another world I've had shoemakers and farms, I skipped alchemists, cooparage and brewery's (never had tannery's and butchers by the way). Than I replaced the shoemakers with sailmakers along with tabbaco plantations. The farms will be deleted (or maybe replaced if there's room for) when all important things are done. It's not worth the investment of coins to replace every possible new building while playing many hours per day.

 

[DeletedUser]

Going from shoemakers to sailmakers, now that's extreme!

Anyways I also got the same conclusion as the OP. I was gonna go from gran farms to brewerys(cause cooperage not worth it), but then CA came out and I ended up going from gran farms straight to tobacco farms(by then I also had some sailmakers in the mix which I'm keeping for now) and skipping LMA production buildings completely. It's just worthless upgrading so often when estimated extra production during the estimated life span of your building is less than the buildings own cost, and that's actually the case with LMA production buildings unless you are like ultra active. Tbh though this trend of production buildings not really improving as much as they used to also continues in CA.

 

[DeletedUser]

True, if you have old tanneries sure. But why not replace your shoemakers with farms/alchemists when you unlock them instead? A cooperage cost way to much for so little supply/square so they are not worth building, upgrade your old shoemaker/tanneries to alchemists instead if you can't afford farms and wait for breweries. You are making a better decision to skip cooperage and wait for Breweries (see maths above). Same goes for cartographer since they are so weak they are not worth the investment.



Why shouldn't I replace my baths with markets asap? Marketplaces are way more effective then baths generating 47,7 happiness/square while a bath only generates 35,625/square. One Marketplace is almost 34% more effective then a bath. A bath in your town at the High/Late middle ages is very poor value per square and makes your town inefficient. Try to avoid that.

It seems from your post that you are hesitant to rearrange your town to fit the new better buildings. It's no coincidence that the better buildings you unlock almost always differ in size, hence forcing you to rearrange your town regularly if you want to maximize your towns efficiency so you can afford better buildings.



If you have the money you really shouldn't skip alchemists since they are well worth the upgrade. And you should wait for breweries instead.

You mention that not all buildings are made to be changed each age. While it true that you can skip some unlocked building due to your research path because they will not have a big enough windows to be worthwhile to replace. Its always better to upgrade new buildings if you play enough so you can afford them, that is until you reach the LMA and the reason of this topic. We shouldn't have buildings in the tech tree that are basically a trap, like some of the LMA buildings currently are.

You are still missing the point and the point is diversion and variety. Not everyone thinks or plays like you and for some who are going from shoemakers or tanneries or butchers they might find cooperage useful.

 

[DeletedUser]

You are still missing the point and the point is diversion and variety. Not everyone thinks or plays like you and for some who are going from shoemakers or tanneries or butchers they might find cooperage useful.

You are repeating yourself.. People who get to LMA with tanneries will get much more likely a farm, due to lots of expansions on the way.

 

[DeletedUser2752]

One thing you guys are missing out on: population per supplies. The bigger (in space) buildings always tend to use more population per supplies compared to the other ones