Feedback Guild Expedition Update

[GateKeeper]

Much has bee said already so no need to rehash everything, let me propose a few changes to improve things.

First of all, the GE1-4 selection kit fragments need to be heavily rebalanced. Either lower the number required, or increase the number you get. Currently on live, if you combine all the buildings within each kit, you get 1.03 GE1 kits, 0.53 GE2 kits, 0.98 GE3 kits, and 1.21 GE4 kits worth of buildings each week. I think giving enough fragments for one each of the GE1-4 kits every week makes sense, you'd get more or less the same number of buildings. It is a buff compared to live due to more flexibility, but I don't think that's unwarranted or too extreme. The current GE balancing has been around for years, a lot has happened in that time, inflation etc etc.

Secondly, the diamonds nerf. Diamonds have been cut in half, from around 160 to 80 on average per week. Both for new and established players this sucks, especially considering this is one of the final remaining ways to get diamonds for free. I know that's the idea and Inno wants people to buy more diamonds or just spend money directly, but as a player it sucks. Another reason it sucks is that now GE5 practically requires diamonds to play unless you want to waste a lot of goods.

I think the diamonds from GE1-4 should be reverted to around 150, but I also think diamonds should be added to GE5. I think a great incentive to play GE5 would be for the final encounter to give a decent chunk of diamonds, say 150-250. It's a big reward, but requires a lot of effort. It makes it rewarding to play GE5, and I truly think it will make a lot more players try to complete it, rework their cities for it, etc. To accommodate this change, simply redistribute the Forgotten Temple fragments from the encounter to the other big GE5 encounters

I think we also need to enhance the fortifications. 50 goods seems small, but multiply by 16 steps. Thats tough on new players and players starting a new age/era.

Some quick thoughts.

• Why not add to the Fortifications a Chance to win them for the next step, just like GBG does with buildings. 50/50 chance!
• Spread the cost evenly amongst the 5 goods for the players current age, and maybe even add a chance for them to from the previous age as well (that will make players strengthen their Stargazers
• You have to bump up the Forts stats, we need a better reason to place them for 50 goods. many have already calc'ed out the costs vs rewards on them in previous posts.

 

[Proven Legend]

Reading through the posts it sounds like very few will be able to complete level 4 and a few that do complete it will have very little to show for it, so what is the problem? nobody does it or gains by doing it and we all move on.

 

[planetofthehumans2]

Reading through the posts it sounds like very few will be able to complete level 4 and a few that do complete it will have very little to show for it, so what is the problem? nobody does it or gains by doing it and we all move on.

They nerfed all of the lower level rewards and turned what you could get in one week to needing 720 fragments to build now. So everyones been hurt across the board on this.

 

[Kronan]

Work harder, work longer, get less..... is a bad equation.... If you look at the list of what people are recording as they work through the new GE 1 - 4 difficulty levels:

(What are people getting from GE now??)

...a single thing stands out:

EVERYTHING you have won previously in the GE venue as workable game solutions (or buildings)....IS now, as of today ... FRAGMENTED: One Up kits, Reno kits, Store building kits, etc, etc, etc.

How is that appealing to anyone?

If the game already has too many tumbleweeds (players who don't play daily, build Notre Dame GBs in the FUTURE Era, come in 1 time for a hour each week....) how is making it slower, and more difficult going to attract new players to a game that's all about slow already (which is why there are so many tumbleweeds...)

When you leave the shimmering metropolis of any medium to large guild - the hood is wasteland of predominantly single or double person (or otherwise tiny guilds) that don't have a message in their main chat for sometimes weeks...

 

[CrashBoom]

Number of fragments needed:
- 180 for the level 1 kit, i.e. one kit every 2 weeks;
- 360 for the level 2 kit, i.e. one kit every 4 weeks;
- 360 for the level 3 kit, i.e. one kit every 4 weeks;
- 720 for the level 4 kit, i.e. one kit every 8 weeks;

It would seem more "logical" to me if the number of fragments needed were simply divided by 2:
- 90 for the level 1 kit, i.e. one kit every week;
- 180 for the level 2 kit, i.e. one kit every 2 weeks;
- 180 for the level 3 kit, i.e. one kit every 2 weeks;
- 360 for the level 4 kit, i.e. one kit every 4 weeks;

This does not generate possible exploits while not retaining the feeling of being rewarded for a task performed.

I would change it to an even more logical timing of
kit 1: 90 = 1 week
kit 2: 180 = 2 weeks
kit 3: 270 = 3 weeks
kit 4: 360 = 4 weeks

AND
I would give the kits only on their level
that would be really logical for me

level 1 kit 60 fragments on encounter 61 (=level 4 almost at the end) ? who thinks that makes sense?

 

[Emberguard]

Inno games made a fortune during the last two years: record-breaking profits: (just google the below)
"InnoGames saw record-breaking revenues of $266 million in 2020"
Like many IT companies, they may face a post covid slowdown, but that it unknown

Spoiler: Offtopic reply

It's guaranteed to happen at some point, and it probably already has. You could have 100% conversion rate of new players joining and it would still be felt as a slowdown.

Even if we were to break down the numbers into 6 months, 2-3 years, 5-7 years and 10+ years, the bulk of players that joined around the same time are going to be leaving around the same time.

Covid forced everyone online artificially. That means we got a flood of new players all at once. You're not going to get the same kind of growth on a consistent basis that Covid gave overnight. That means you'll feel it more when that group of players leave compared to when other groups leave, because it'll be a artificially large group and you can't introduce a same size or larger group to replace them if that group doesn't exist.

You're also far more likely to retain a player if they joined out of genuine interest in the game. If someone joins with the intent of leaving the moment things get back to "normal" it's much harder to retain them. They already intended to leave

The questions isn't "will there be a slowdown" but rather "how much can you slow down the rate of attrition so it's felt as little as possible?". You're guaranteed to have slowdown every time there's a artificial inflation. You can build back up afterwards but there will be a slowdown at some point

However there's really no point in focusing on whether or not there's a slowdown. The focus should simply be on making the game the best it can be. If InnoGames makes an amazing game that'll retain players a lot better than merely worrying about something that you know is going to eventually happen.

You mean, a little bit of something like this?

Spoiler: Innogames Revenue

View attachment 9249

Spoiler: Forge of Empires ARPDAU 2014-2022

View attachment 9250

FoE is around pre-pandemic levels of revenue, when you'd be hoping that it would have at least undergone more growth in that period. Additionally, the past couple of financial reports from MTG (they own Innogames) have stated that revenue from FoE has declined from the previous reports.

The above charts were taken from MTG's 2022 Capital Market Day's presentation.

Doesn't surprise me. If it's around pre-pandemic levels, then it's corrected itself from any artificial growth that Covid gave, possibly even over-corrected.

I would change it to an even more logical timing of
kit 1: 90 = 1 week
kit 2: 180 = 2 weeks
kit 3: 270 = 3 weeks
kit 4: 360 = 4 weeks

AND
I would give the kits only on their level
that would be really logical for me

level 1 kit 60 fragments on encounter 61 (=level 4 almost at the end) ? who thinks that makes sense?

Agreed. I can understand the higher level kits taking proportionally longer to construct, but it'd be nice to get *something* completed each Expedition so it feels like we've made progress.

 

[Lady Susan]

my mark for the changes for Level 1 to Level 4 - F for Fail - you are destroying the GE. No one wants a pile of stupid fragments of buildings that they dont want or need anyway. The whole thing is ridiculous. I am getting so sick of fragments - they are ruining the game.
Havent reached Level 5 yet... that is to come.

 

[zookeepers]

If I was to design this from scratch, I would implement only 2 selection kits.
Gold Selection Kit: Face, Gate, Flame, Sacred Sky Watch, Tribal Square and those upgrades, Fragments of Terrace Farm(50/100) or Upgrade kit(30/90)
Diamond Selection Kit: FoY, FoY shrink kit, 500 diamonds.

Of the Face, Gate, Flame, SSW, TS and TF, very few players demand more than 2 of them in the list.
If everything is put together in one selection kit, players would choose the most desired item of all,
and would mean something, even if the rate in number is cut by half.

500 diamonds seems to be so much, but in reality, when you need like 8 weeks to obtain the diamond kit,
while the cut in diamond rewards by half would make loss of apx 640 diamonds,
this is not even enough. But at least 500 diamonds looks big, so many players would ironically be satisfied.
(the developers cut the rewards and many of the users get happy! what a win-win situation!)

 

[Devilsangel]

I wouldn't compare the changed rewards to ToR just yet...there were new relics in the files so most probably a nerf to ToR is also in the works...Temple of Fragments probably

 

[nice2haveu]

To reduce some stress, picked this game on 2013 or 2014 (can't remember exactly) and playing on mobile all these days. First two years of playing the game without joining any guild, it's a nightmare. I was randomly distributing forgepoints, goods to every neighbor's and friend's daily. One invite came to join the guild, which they have specific rules to play the game. Need to finish GE level 2 atleast in a week, make 100 GBG battles atleast, lots of new message threads 1.9, trade threads and helpful guidance threads on game features etc. After covid, guild members left massively and got new mates with new rules, Ge level 3 mandatory and 200gbg battles per season. Rules are very cheap who play the game for long time correctly. When GE5 beta discussion happen on live server in our guild message threads, all mates are excited (though many are not competing GE4) and luckily few are only available in beta to test it from our guild to know the real taste of GE5. Not sure what was going to be end the result in live server, the excitement of many people will be end with a huge disappointment if no helpful or satisfying changes come along.

In real life, every person in the city paying new increased tax amount and you wanted to protest like it is unacceptable, no one listens. The same thing going to happen here too.

If GE5 introduced on live server, I will play "Fragments of Empires" for events only and going to give rest regularly each month until next event appears. I thought to uninstall but keeping slight leap of faith on Dev's and Inno to compromise my feelings on it.

 

[Lindsay]

Inno, if you are longing players to spend real money and want them to buy diamonds more often, and you came up with all those golden building fragments, reduced the amount of diamonds in the GE, etc.. maybe make the diamonds-store available to the players at an affordable price. After all, it is better to sell 3 sets of 2550 diamonds for 10 euros than to wait for someone 1 to decide to buy the same set for 20. No?
Reduce the prices and roll back all these changes you've made please. We have our GE we got used to, you have hundreds of new players who are ready to buy diamonds by the new prices. Everyone is happy.
We'll close our eyes as if it never happened

 

[CrashBoom]

If I was to design this from scratch, I would implement only 2 selection kits.
Gold Selection Kit: Face, Gate, Flame, Sacred Sky Watch, Tribal Square and those upgrades, Fragments of Terrace Farm(50/100) or Upgrade kit(30/90)
Diamond Selection Kit: FoY, FoY shrink kit, 500 diamonds.

fragments of diamonds

and you know if they put diamonds in the kit they would remove the other diamonds as rewards :

500 diamonds seems to be so much

actually it is less than the amount we get now on average in 8 weeks (3 times 90 with 30% chance= 81 per week, makes 648 in 8 weeks)


I wouldn't have create special selection kits
I would just have made a normal selection kits with the building and its upgrade (shrink) kit in it
and then replace what the old reward (building or upgrade/shrink) with the kit of it

done.

 

[robert-kowal]

I wouldn't compare the changed rewards to ToR just yet...there were new relics in the files so most probably a nerf to ToR is also in the works...Temple of Fragments probably

Very good point, I noticed that too. Let's hope they don't weaken this GB. Let it stay as it is.

 

[-Alin-]

I wouldn't compare the changed rewards to ToR just yet...there were new relics in the files so most probably a nerf to ToR is also in the works...Temple of Fragments probably

Those colored relics were Transformed to the actual statues used in GE, but, You never know what bright ideas will bring us InnoGames.

 

[Mabusian der Graue]

What do you think that the main problem is about the fragments of kits? When I play GEx atm I just click all the buildings away and ignore them. And I don't think that anybody needs a lvl 1 kit each week. What is really sad is that the first GEs don't bring any placeable buildings.
Another idea would be to start with a whole kit in the rewards and change the rewards to fragments after the first win the same way they do it with the avatars.

 

[hades8840]

And now diamonds have gone from Ge I can no longer afford to neg the last few lvl 5 camps oh well

 

[zookeepers]

actually it is less than the amount we get now on average in 8 weeks (3 times 90 with 30% chance= 81 per week, makes 648 in 8 weeks)

of course, it shall be done keeping diamond rewards at L4.
648 + 500 = 1148 / 8 weeks. Slightly lower than it is now in live servers, but I'm pretty much sure
that usual players will be happier that way.

Inno would take some merit too, because by this change
you would be unable to take the diamonds AND get the fountains at the same time.
It makes developing diamond farms more tough than now it is.

 

[Boo...]

I believe that the game is made by professionals. And, they know what they're doing.
Expedition changes will cause farms to die. Many guilds will simply close. Will the load on the server decrease? Will electricity consumption decrease? Inno will increase his income?
In any case - good luck to you Inno! And more profit.

 

[Boo...]

I won't get poorer if I leave the farms and stay in one world. I will become richer - I will have more time. Time is the main currency in the game. But will Inno become richer?

 

[softly explorer]

I wouldn't compare the changed rewards to ToR just yet...there were new relics in the files so most probably a nerf to ToR is also in the works...Temple of Fragments probably

Please noooo!! It's already a disaster they ruined GE completely !!
If they ALSO going to nerf the ToR rewards ... where will this end? Nerf the rewards (or %) on CF, on HC, on SV, on SC, etc etc ...