Rejected Guild attrition list

[Grzechu Junior]

Reason

So the commanders of GB will know how much power guild have in diffrent time. Depending of ppl online, their attrition and capability. Also knowing who is avoiding "hard" sector, or not doing everything (only for top of the top guilds)

Details

The simple list - same as how many fights or negotations pps did, showing actual attrition
OR
at least, shot attrition the person ended the day.

Balance

0 impact

Abuse Prevention

0 impact - only guilds with abusvie chief will suffer, but the solution is simple - change leader or change guilds so the sick mad chief will be alone.

Summary

It will make easier to know which player is doing 100% of they power, and how much power does the guild have for example at 20:00, 10:00 etc.
In the second version - just to know who is doing 100% and who is doing only "light" sectors.

Have you looked to see if this has already been suggested?

Didnt see

Hello there again.
Simple idea - add the actual status of members attrition.
It would help the commanders of GB to decide if we fight or no for "hard" sectors etc.

Also knowing who is avoiding "hard" sector, or not doing everything (only for top of the top guilds)

 

[Grzechu Junior]

The leaders already know who's doing nothing...... there's already a counter of fights per season

its not the correct factor
i prefer a player do 500 fights season with attrition 100 every day
then person who do 10000 fights season with 0-20 attrition a day.
the best one is the one who is doing few fights on every secotr when we have race with other team. Those on are really the treasure of the guild if they can fight all day long on every sector.

i kicked many player who were fighting free secotr (4 siege camps) than dissapear to 3 or less siege camps, and than magically reapear for 4+ sector. Those are parasites in guild.

 

[Owl II]

In fact, leaders know who is worth what in their team, that's why they are leaders. You mark instinctively those who come to every difficult sector (race, a bit camps). And you also see who disappears in front of the sector with 3 camps, although he was just here with 4+ camps. We should thank for this not Inno, but the developers of the Helper. This is the first.

Secondly, you must be able to properly dispose of the available information. Not everyone can do it. By opening the depletion level of players to everyone, you risk causing a huge scandals and fights out of the blue.

Finally, the third. I didn't vote because I was against the implementation of the logs that the players asked for from the start. For the same reason I described above. But now logs sometimes help to conduct an educational conversation with violators. So maybe I'm wrong here too

 

[kawada]

If the SC nerf goes live, this function will have no sense since number of battles will kinda correlate with attrition level.

 

[Grzechu Junior]

If the SC nerf goes live, this function will have no sense since number of battles will kinda correlate with attrition level.

But it is hard to see numbers of fight a day w/o helper. Even with helper you have to keep updating it on 24:00 so the "daily fights" will refresh.
WHen you go off at 22;00 log in on 9:00 you will see all fights since 22:00 as new day.

Moreover, person can do 50 fights on 0 siege camps and tell he has max attrition, while he could lie, and he has like 20-30 attrition.

When we have race for secotr, it is nice to know if the memebers who came for sector has low or high attrition to decide if we fight or no.

And yes you can know if somebody is lieing or no, or maybe max attrition for them is 50, not 80, but we know thsi game and know how much in each age you can do with specific attack/def bonus.
Moreover, sometimes liars are good, and it is hard to tell, and such info would help a lot to terminate parasites in guild.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

But it is hard to see numbers of fight a day w/o helper. Even with helper you have to keep updating it on 24:00 so the "daily fights" will refresh.
WHen you go off at 22;00 log in on 9:00 you will see all fights since 22:00 as new day.

Moreover, person can do 50 fights on 0 siege camps and tell he has max attrition, while he could lie, and he has like 20-30 attrition.

When we have race for secotr, it is nice to know if the memebers who came for sector has low or high attrition to decide if we fight or no.

And yes you can know if somebody is lieing or no, or maybe max attrition for them is 50, not 80, but we know thsi game and know how much in each age you can do with specific attack/def bonus.
Moreover, sometimes liars are good, and it is hard to tell, and such info would help a lot to terminate parasites in guild.

You should consider yourself lucky that none of your Guild's members are reading your posts on this thread. If I got the impression that guild leadership in any of my guilds felt the way about their members that you do about yours, I'd bail out of that guild and never look back. You think that players are there to provide the guild power. I think that the guild is there to provide the players with support. We will never agree that your "attrition report" is a good idea.

 

[Grzechu Junior]

You should consider yourself lucky that none of your Guild's members are reading your posts on this thread. If I got the impression that guild leadership in any of my guilds felt the way about their members that you do about yours, I'd bail out of that guild and never look back. You think that players are there to provide the guild power. I think that the guild is there to provide the players with support. We will never agree that your "attrition report" is a good idea.

They are reading And moreover many of my ideas come from guild members

You think that players are there to provide the guild power. I think that the guild is there to provide the players with support.

It is so sad.... guild are not for players. Players are for guild. Its player pleasure to be able to be in the top guild of server.
Guild is gropup of people encouranging themselvev to be better every day, but the profit comes for everyone.
The guild is giving the option to fight in the best squad vs other guilds.
and the guild is as weak as the weakest member. One bad grain and whole stuff is bad.
Fast 1,9, top squad on GB, many fighters in GvG - it is waht guild and their leaders can ensure. Good atmosfer, good leadership, so everyone can focus on their target and purpose in guild.

And you know, top guild are few, Top guild one. Sure they can chagne, but in others they will be losing, they will see that not all memebers are so fucused and that they dont care about outcome, and they fastl regret.

I kicked many players who than admitted that they were their foult that they do to low, and they see how much they lost.

 

[kawada]

When we have race for secotr, it is nice to know if the memebers who came for sector has low or high attrition to decide if we fight or no.

And yes you can know if somebody is lieing or no, or maybe max attrition for them is 50, not 80, but we know thsi game and know how much in each age you can do with specific attack/def bonus.
Moreover, sometimes liars are good, and it is hard to tell, and such info would help a lot to terminate parasites in guild.

I don't need to know this level of details. We have a lot of this stuff at work, no need to chase people in the game too.

Normally, we alarm people about a race in Discord and do a count in GBG thread. People will tell if they're "fresh" or have at high attri. Players might have no troops, no time, slow internet, RL problems.... Also, I don't know attri limits of everyone. And don't really want to know

 

[Knight Roland]

My vote is a yes.

The only people who should be worried about being "policed" those who have something to hide.

Except that it is no crime to not accumulate a high attrition.

Starting to police people because they dont actively participate in something that the ruling class demands from them is like starting something that humankind has seen far to often sadly. And this never ends in a good way.

 

[Kronan]

I vote no, on principle. I'm not interested as a guild founder, leader or even a member adjudicating what's "fair" for unequal contributions of guild team event "sacrifice". Life isn't egalitarian.

When I join a guild, I give my all - when I can and if it can fit into my real-life commitments. If I can't be there every season at the microsecond GbG opens to take a share of the painful march without much SC or WT help, I'm really sorry but - I'm NOT. I'll make it up some other way that I can. If that's not good enough, I do not belong in your guild.

If leadership thinks someone is slacking at their responsibilities - then address it with the tools you have now, which are clearly illuminating enough to affect a reasonable perspective, and can be a starting discussion point with other leaders for consensus, and the guild mate, if then required.

If you think that tracking this week after week in a spreadsheet and then confronting (ambushing) players about their lack of investment in the guild is gonna win you any friends, you'd be wrong.

Let Inno work on really important stuff for us by clear game community mandates, vs trying to fix something that really isn't broken.

 

[Grzechu Junior]

If you think that tracking this week after week in a spreadsheet and then confronting (ambushing) players about their lack of investment in the guild is gonna win you any friends, you'd be wrong.

i dont care about making friends, i am giving many chancen and such list will no be for improving guild member. It is needed to have clear prove to have reason to kick him.

With current tools i can talk to him, say about my concerns, show them what they i see and what i think. He can say that he will improve ble ble, and what, probably doing a bit more but still to low. So, clear info, jupitek 2k attack, doing 20 attritio na day with 1000 fights? while others on 500 fights have 80 attrition. Easy conclusion,
With actual tools other memebers dont see this. It just word vs word.

 

[ArklurBeta]

Except that it is no crime to not accumulate a high attrition.

Starting to police people because they dont actively participate in something that the ruling class demands from them is like starting something that humankind has seen far to often sadly. And this never ends in a good way.

And who said it is a crime? If you don't like this change because you assume people in charge would start picking on people who don't reach...I don't know...30 attrition at the end of the day, then...the person is simply in the wrong guild. Top guilds already set minimums, which often is kinda the bare minimum you can expect from the people, and this requirement can be either a "hard" or a "soft" one in the sense that if you don't reach these requirements, you are not removed from the guild, but at a risk of getting removed.

I'm in a very active and strong GBG guild, I would say easily the 2nd best, and even in this round I would consider it extremely stupid if there would be a daily limit of N attrition. Sure, if someone doesn't meet a certain amount of attrition (which should be low, as I said before, probably around 30, give or take) on numerous days, then...I think it's totally fine on both sides to say goodbye. And somewhat you can already see who is sleeping on helping the team.

But as I said, I feel like there is much more fear that leadership would start removing players merely based on this information. If any member of the leadership does it, he is a very bad leader, since seeing the attrition of players would be just another useful input and not THE ONLY ONE.

 

[kawada]

i dont care about making friends, i am giving many chancen and such list will no be for improving guild member. It is needed to have clear prove to have reason to kick him.

gimme your guild name, I will never join such a totalitarian team hahaha

 

[Pericles the Lion]

gimme your guild name, I will never join such a totalitarian team hahaha

"PRO" - #6 on the Polish server, EN world

 

[Kronan]

i dont care about making friends, i am giving many chancen and such list will no be for improving guild member. It is needed to have clear prove to have reason to kick him.

With current tools i can talk to him, say about my concerns, show them what they i see and what i think. He can say that he will improve ble ble, and what, probably doing a bit more but still to low. So, clear info, jupitek 2k attack, doing 20 attritio na day with 1000 fights? while others on 500 fights have 80 attrition. Easy conclusion,
With actual tools other memebers dont see this. It just word vs word.

There is something for everyone here - in principle. Your principle is - your guild, your rules. Who said you have to prove anything? He has no rights, and you have all the rights - because you can kick/boot anyone you want, anytime. He has no recourse.

He can't even argue or make excuses, it's pointless. And you only think you're fair, because you have the power to do what yo want.

Do you know how many people write to support, or post in the forums (which are quickly removed if possible) about being mistreated? LOTS!! Global chat becomes a cesspool sometimes when people are called out - on both sides of this issue. This spills over needlessly - in too many places already.

Your proposal just adds fuel to the fire.

DO you REALLY think INNO wants more complaints than they have now about arbitrary adjudication that lead to boot events in guilds? They're sick of them. They're not going to empower you with anything else so you can execute people on your whims like that. It's already bad enough.

I'm extremely confident this NEW IDEA won't see the light of day. So yeah, discuss it all you want. This makes more headaches for Inno than it solves for anyone that plays here. Inno doesn't want to LOSE CUSTOMERS because you boot people from your guild and they're mad that they (INNO) let it happen.

Guilds are clubs, and even "cliques", especially when there are goals that aren't clearly articulated and embraced before you join, and you feel like a trap's been set and you're the bait.

I'd even bet that few people here have ever been trained or educated on how to manage a global group of people to a single goal - in real life. Here? You could probably count them on 1 hand, only.

 

[Grzechu Junior]

Do you know how many people write to support, or post in the forums (which are quickly removed if possible) about being mistreated? LOTS!!

XD
Oh no support help me the guild chief kicked me xDDD jesus how people are pitiful
not this guild go to another. I am succesfull with few other friends in head of guild for long time and we somehow improving fro msession to session
its just all about getting 80 weirdos who are really ambitious about game, try to plan life so they can be on 20:00 on gvg (sadly only 15-20 members)
have discord and come for races in number of 20-30 every hour
15 players are putting alarms in night to come for sectors... w/o obligation. They just WANT IT, they care for guild and they come at night. They wife are yelling but they are still coming.
For some it will be sick, but is there any diffrence about other things? YOu have to do in life what brings you joy. If we have joy in spending lifetime in game, its nothing bad.
But when you have many players who are giving 100% of them, we really want to get rid of parasites which are sometimes really hard to find... I kicked many players, and i still know that many will be kicked in future. And i hate to kick players just on my observation (or anyone other) i collect data, see when he comes, when he fights etc, but still it is only my observations and foe helper (which is not part of the game - therefore can show wrong data)

 

[Kronan]

My sincere suggestion: DO a better job at who you let in, vs using the boot on who you kick out. It takes time to hone a guild to a singular vision that everyone can embrace and work towards. It's done with TRUST, not tools. Most people here are grownups, and can embrace a vision they can understand before they sign up. So engage in dialog FIRST.

Change your guild entry policies. If you use autojoin - don't. Use invites or applications. Maybe even a leadership team that will screen and to discuss applications and their qualifications for what you're doing.

Talk to people first for a fair amount of time (maybe even multiple sessions...), to make sure you know what you're getting, and give them a sense of your goals, and their responsibility in it.

Ensure that they understand the rights and privileges you offer and have worked hard to get, have member responsibilities. Only when you're sure of them, let them in - maybe even provisionally.

Then? You don't need INNO for anything in this regard. That's what leading is all about.

Trust and respect - and communications.

 

[Grzechu Junior]

It's done with TRUST

Yea but trust is being earned in time. And trust players are the core og guild. But there is also "outskirts" of guild. the players not integrating with guild. Just playing. They dont write anything in chat. They dont come to disocord for chating in the evenings. They dont want it. And it is okey, but it is hard to trust at first.

DO a better job in who you let in

Yea? What other factors you can take. We take GvG, number of fights done in last 30 days - in fact member who were in small guild, low diamond could log once a day and do ten sector alone and log out. His score would be amazing, 10-20k in 30 days. Still usless in my guild cuz he log once a day or just camping for 4+siege sectors. How to find it in recruitment?
Recruting is always hi risk high rewards.

Change your guild entry policies. If you use autojoin - don't. Use invites or applications. Maybe even a leadership team that will screen and to discuss applications and their qualifications for what you're doing.

You are thinking that top guild in GB (won everything with everyone since march) has autojoin? xD As above, many factors are taken into consideration. Even last guilds, we always ask for reason to come to us, how eften he plays, night or day, we analize city if it is build properly, but still, a lier is a liar, parasite is a parasite.
We usually ask last guild to ask about the player, but not always they say anything usefull.

(maybe even multiple sessions...)

Few sessions? 2-3 max for a test a player. And yes WE HAVE TOOLS, but we can have BETTER tool to check members activity....
Yea we are doing great job now, with current tools, but why not ask for more.

At begining they were no markers or no activity diary in GB. 2 YEARS fighting, we get the POP UP that secotr is crossed but still IG have made an option to TURN THIS OFF. How stupid it is
Again, 2 years fighting for the activity diary to see who the heck closed sector or who was fighting when the secotr was closed....
Basic functions, 2 years of fighting for it....

 

[Pericles the Lion]

At begining they were no markers or no activity diary in GB. 2 YEARS fighting, we get the POP UP that secotr is crossed but still IG have made an option to TURN THIS OFF. How stupid it is
Again, 2 years fighting for the activity diary to see who the heck closed sector or who was fighting when the secotr was closed....
Basic functions, 2 years of fighting for it....

You are taking your own thread off topic. That being said, yes, the player can disable the warnings but everyone in the guild can still see who intruded on a sector that was closed and/or conquered a sector.

 

[Grzechu Junior]

the player can disable the warnings but everyone in the guild can still see who intruded on a sector

Yea and than if he close the secotr was supposed to stay i have to warn him or kick him - and it will not take time back. The sector is closed and the map situation probably complicated. Just becasue a IG cant make a function that disables fighting on sectors or at least having this pop up always on....

 

[vakini]

well schoolars and working pplwould has a problem here