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Fluidity in the GvG: PROPOSAL FOR COUNTERS (AND NEW APPROACH) IN GvG WARS

  • Thread starter DeletedUser8939
  • Start date

DeletedUser8939

Guest
Hello everyone


We belong to a top guild, very combative and active participant in the GvG wars.


For quite some time now we have detected what think is a big problem in the game mechanism, which think is quite important.


Although we understand that the initial objetive of the FoE Development Team was to power balance in GvG, between large and powerful guilds and less powerful guilds, it is finally leading to a very large imbalance, which clearly benefits the smaller guilds and with fewer sectors.


We refer to the counter that is activated when releasing a sector, not allowing the guild that releases it to perform any action on it, until the next count and map update.


And this is where, under our point of view, is the problem.


Along the time a tactic has developed, widely spread, by which a few seconds before the end of the 24-hour period immediately preceding a certain count, the guild that owns the sector releases it. As soon as the recount ends, they place a siege on the sector released a few seconds before and (given the advantage that the attacker usually has, except for a successful attack by the rival guild on the siege) they usually reconquers it and putting on a shield for another 24 hours.


This tactic is usually combined with a change of defenses in the sector just before the count, placing troops of low potential to facilitate the subsequent siege and reconquest. If we additionally consider the low cost of sieges, for a guild with few sectors on the map, this becomes a great advantage for those who want to defend at very low cost, and with very little effort and losses. A huge help more, to add to the cost of sieges, for those guilds of GvG with few sectors. And that unjustly penalizes whoever works the most to own these sectors.


There is a very serious consequence in this that we comment, since it is indispensable to be very quick to put the siege right after the recount. Both for who makes this defensive tactic and for who intends to take the sector, the temptation to use bots and / or automatic mouse programs is very high. In fact we have suffered its use many times, we have reported it to Support on multiple occasions (even providing videos) and we know that it is very complicated to prove and sanction it.


This undesirable derivative accentuates the injustice and imbalance that we marks, completely distorting the desirable and clean competition between guilds in GvG. It is extremely frustrating to prepare with care and dedication a brilliant combat maneuver, to see it derailed afterwards with these traps, and these exaggerated advantages for those who least work a GvG map.


Another undesired aspect of this is the creation of "ghost guilds" to take advantage of these circumstances: guilds that only want to score points for the Towers Tournament; guilds dedicated only to annoy and attack larger guilds, with only objective and desire to harm one's most power opponent; top guilds with many sectors, which are forced to create "ghosts" to defend themselves at low cost ... the mixture of all this has greatly distorted the initial idea of GvG: a place to fight, a place to compete, a place for that the best guilds (large or not) can unfold their potential and their strategies.


We propose a very simple solution.


Simply if you release a sector of your own, you can not attack it within next effective 24 hours. Not until the next recount, which is the current situation and that, as we said, may be it a few seconds after you releasing it. If you release him at 19:59.55, you can not attack again until 19:59.55 of the next day.


As simple as that.


This would eliminate in a direct and quickly way all the problems previously exposed.


To oblige to defend the sectors that are possessed, with talent and means.


It would take you to fight with "the face uncovered", which is what it is! FoE are a War Game (especially in its GvG module).


It would make the use of bots and traps irrelevant.


To minimize the theme of the "ghost guilds".


It would balance GvG, and probably helps to make the same in the rest of the game: if you are a small guild the logical thing is to first grow and then be able to fight in GvG with guarantees, starting with low Ages; If you are a powerful guild, that you have worked to get where you are, your logical reward and benefit is to have sectors on the maps. Without being so exposed to incursions oriented only to damage, with little effort and risk. And to be able to attack and obtain a minimum reward for so much effort, without having to overcome defenses of low cost exaggeratedly benefited by these that we comment.



The counter re-desing proposal is also extended to the shield that guild puts when conquer a sector. Currently the shield of a certain sector down during the next count. And all of shields falls at once. We propose, as a complement to the above, that the shield of a certain sector remain active during a effective period of 24h, starting from the moment it is put.


It is true that both counters should be controlled by independently way, for each sector (we assume that it will consume resources in the servers). But it is very possible that this workload is distributed and balanced for more hours. Despite the obvious improvements of the last update, the entire workload and resources continue to be concentrated in the time lapse between just before 20:00 and, perhaps, 15 minutes to 1 hour later. We believe that redesigning the counters of liberation and shields will avoid this workload peak so accentuated. And the known (and protested) problems of servers overloaded at 20:00h.


To conclude; these improvements will give a new dimension to GvG. There will be more action and more variety, for more hours per day, as the strategies become less dependent of count period (20:00h). The hours of fighting will be diversified. It will be much more dynamic. And it will be much more just, rewarding and compensating for the effort and talent, for attention on game during more time...not like a present situation... that it is a mere "trains crash" at 20:00h, with too many advantages for the defender, and too many difficulties for the one who risks and attacks more.


We believe that the small guilds, while growing up to be able to fight successfully in GvG, can to score in the Expeditions; with several levels suitable for the potential of each one. Of course, any player has the neighborhood, and the possibility of attacking their neighbors. And already in GvG the norm of cost of sieges by number of sectors is already in itself a great help against more powerful guilds.


Thanks for everyone's attention. We hope that this reasoned and simple idea has a welcome, and allow us to perfect and improve a GvG that, for us, are very damaged by this that we remarks.

EDIT: NormaJeane - 2018-05-07 - Edited* this because partially no English translation was provided.
* in accordance with this post
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser7942

Guest
pretty sure top guilds with lots of sectors do this as well. also pretty sure top guilds with lots of sectors use bots or whatever to resiege. I'm pretty IG knows all this. But don't see any change on the horizon, if ever really.
 
I'm in a top guild. release/retake is a tactic used by some guilds, but not all. I dont see this as an issue. there are many bigger issues to solve first

a top guild will not risk using bots. they do not want to get banned. its called teamwork. a lot of fighters ready, several on sieges, as well as leader, scouts/mapwatch, etc. thats how you place sieges quick and win sectors. NOT by using a bot.
 

DeletedUser7942

Guest
a top guild will not risk using bots
sure they will, the whole guild won't get banned only the player doing it. I've seen players who have spent hundreds if not more get banned for stuff, some people just get crazy with it, some people will even risk their jobs and it's not relegated only to FoE, that's just online gaming in general. There's always a Lance Armstrong somewhere in life, gaming is no different.
 

DeletedUser5882

Guest
In my opinion, bots or releasing and retaking sectors are not even close to being primary issues in GvG!

Some so called top guilds have at least 50% fake profiles in it!

In FoE, fake profiles are mainly detected via fp donation scanning. Because cheating was assumed to be only in GBs. Thanks to that lack of security measures, certain guilds with rank obsession have managed to create ghost guilds with multiple fake profiles. From what I gathered, this must have been going on for at least 3 years!! They managed to go undetected for so long that they have become incredibly bold!

A is a "Top" guild
Some unknown guild, B, suddenly appears and within a week becomes "Top" guild as well.
When their guild background activity is checked some really strange things catch your attention.

Some 10-20 members of guild A have been commuting between A and B in groups all at once few times over a 2 year period.
Most of the members of A and B appear to have been in a guild C some time ago. This guild "C" curiously still has plenty of members even though it is a low level guild. The most extraordinary feature of this guild is that pretty much 99% of its members are completely inactive... Some are even still born! Profile created and left there to rest without a single activity. Some profiles who have zero activity for at least for over a year, strangely appear to have managed to change guilds.

The strange things do not end here. Another unknown guild, D, is noticed. Showing not much GvG action but interestingly appears in the right time in the right place.. especially around A or B! They too have quite many members!! Their background check says that over 40% is from B, 30% from A and the remaining from C or another dead profile guild.


Then another unknown guild is seen somewhere in GvG map. This one is stranger. It has like 30 members and all of these 30 are from B!!
But guild B has still the same number of members!! How can a guild keep their member count so precise?? For every lost member, they immediately find a replacement. Even if 30 members have left it on the sam day, they somehow manage to replace all 30 in mere seconds!!

Other strange information that surface is that plenty of profiles that are connected with A, B and some dead guilds appear to be or have been members of most GvG active guilds!

And now, imagine that this is only the tip of the Iceberg!!!



FoE needs a new fake profile scanning policy, new GvG rules that is not related to sectors or the map in general but about profiles that are partaking in a guild GvG activity! What you think to be bot may be multiple fake profiles being awakened by 3-5 guys who are so dedicated to winning that they use multiple devices to achieve that. Like 1 pc+1 mobile for each person. Oh yes, mobile can be used if you know what browser to use!
 

DeletedUser9000

Guest
This thread of my colleague of guild pacoman25 (and by some errors) were substituted by correct version in my new thread PROPOSAL FOR COUNTERS (AND NEW APPROACH) IN GvG WARS.

Sorry by inconveniences and, please, respond to this in this new thread.

Thanks a lot!
 

DeletedUser9000

Guest
In any case I put the correct version of post in following Reply
 

DeletedUser9000

Guest
PROPOSAL FOR COUNTERS (AND NEW APPROACH) IN GvG WARS

Hello everyone


We belong to a top guild, very combative and active participant in the GvG wars.


For quite some time now we have detected what think is a big problem in the game mechanism, which think is quite important.


Although we understand that the initial objetive of the FoE Development Team was to power balance in GvG, between large and powerful guilds and less powerful guilds, it is finally leading to a very large imbalance, which clearly benefits the smaller guilds and with fewer sectors.


We refer to the counter that is activated when releasing a sector, not allowing the guild that releases it to perform any action on it, until the next count and map update.


And this is where, under our point of view, is the problem.


Along the time a tactic has developed, widely spread, by which a few seconds before the end of the 24-hour period immediately preceding a certain count, the guild that owns the sector releases it. As soon as the recount ends, they place a siege on the sector released a few seconds before and (given the advantage that the attacker usually has, except for a successful attack by the rival guild on the siege) they usually reconquers it and putting on a shield for another 24 hours.


This tactic is usually combined with a change of defenses in the sector just before the count, placing troops of low potential to facilitate the subsequent siege and reconquest. If we additionally consider the low cost of sieges, for a guild with few sectors on the map, this becomes a great advantage for those who want to defend at very low cost, and with very little effort and losses. A huge help more, to add to the cost of sieges, for those guilds of GvG with few sectors. And that unjustly penalizes whoever works the most to own these sectors.


There is a very serious consequence in this that we comment, since it is indispensable to be very quick to put the siege right after the recount. Both for who makes this defensive tactic and for who intends to take the sector, the temptation to use bots and / or automatic mouse programs is very high. In fact we have suffered its use many times, we have reported it to Support on multiple occasions (even providing videos) and we know that it is very complicated to prove and sanction it.


This undesirable derivative accentuates the injustice and imbalance that we marks, completely distorting the desirable and clean competition between guilds in GvG. It is extremely frustrating to prepare with care and dedication a brilliant combat maneuver, to see it derailed afterwards with these traps, and these exaggerated advantages for those who least work a GvG map.


Another undesired aspect of this is the creation of "ghost guilds" to take advantage of these circumstances: guilds that only want to score points for the Towers Tournament; guilds dedicated only to annoy and attack larger guilds, with only objective and desire to harm one's most power opponent; top guilds with many sectors, which are forced to create "ghosts" to defend themselves at low cost ... the mixture of all this has greatly distorted the initial idea of GvG: a place to fight, a place to compete, a place for that the best guilds (large or not) can unfold their potential and their strategies.


We propose a very simple solution.


Simply if you release a sector of your own, you can not attack it within next effective 24 hours. Not until the next recount, which is the current situation and that, as we said, may be it a few seconds after you releasing it. If you release him at 19:59.55, you can not attack again until 19:59.55 of the next day.


As simple as that.


This would eliminate in a direct and quickly way all the problems previously exposed.


To oblige to defend the sectors that are possessed, with talent and means.


It would take you to fight with "the face uncovered", which is what it is! FoE are a War Game (especially in its GvG module).


It would make the use of bots and traps irrelevant.


To minimize the theme of the "ghost guilds".


It would balance GvG, and probably helps to make the same in the rest of the game: if you are a small guild the logical thing is to first grow and then be able to fight in GvG with guarantees, starting with low Ages; If you are a powerful guild, that you have worked to get where you are, your logical reward and benefit is to have sectors on the maps. Without being so exposed to incursions oriented only to damage, with little effort and risk. And to be able to attack and obtain a minimum reward for so much effort, without having to overcome defenses of low cost exaggeratedly benefited by these that we comment.



The counter re-desing proposal is also extended to the shield that guild puts when conquer a sector. Currently the shield of a certain sector down during the next count. And all of shields falls at once. We propose, as a complement to the above, that the shield of a certain sector remain active during a effective period of 24h, starting from the moment it is put.


It is true that both counters should be controlled by independently way, for each sector (we assume that it will consume resources in the servers). But it is very possible that this workload is distributed and balanced for more hours. Despite the obvious improvements of the last update, the entire workload and resources continue to be concentrated in the time lapse between just before 20:00 and, perhaps, 15 minutes to 1 hour later. We believe that redesigning the counters of liberation and shields will avoid this workload peak so accentuated. And the known (and protested) problems of servers overloaded at 20:00h.


To conclude; these improvements will give a new dimension to GvG. There will be more action and more variety, for more hours per day, as the strategies become less dependent of count period (20:00h). The hours of fighting will be diversified. It will be much more dynamic. And it will be much more just, rewarding and compensating for the effort and talent, for attention on game during more time...not like a present situation... that it is a mere "trains crash" at 20:00h, with too many advantages for the defender, and too many difficulties for the one who risks and attacks more.


We believe that the small guilds, while growing up to be able to fight successfully in GvG, can to score in the Expeditions; with several levels suitable for the potential of each one. Of course, any player has the neighborhood, and the possibility of attacking their neighbors. And already in GvG the norm of cost of sieges by number of sectors is already in itself a great help against more powerful guilds.


Thanks for everyone's attention. We hope that this reasoned and simple idea has a welcome, and allow us to perfect and improve a GvG that, for us, are very damaged by this that we remarks.
 

DeletedUser8939

Guest
I see it well since it is not logical to release seconds before the count to take seconds after the count and the same with the shield if the shield was at 1:00 pm because we have to wait at 8:00 pm for it to be at 1:00 pm the next day. In this way, he gains fluidity that is lacking, especially at the time of counting.
 

DeletedUser8316

Guest
Those claiming bots aren't being used should pay closer attention. We've seen fully loaded AA sectors (all Oceanic units and well mixed) with 3 to 5 people trying to break sieges get taken in 30 seconds or less. That's 80 fights in less than 30 seconds. You can always tell when the bots show up.. the lag goes way up even for the fastest connections and it's physically impossible to place a Defensive Army manually. Inno doesn't seem to care .. we've reported it repeatedly and supplied video of it happening to show how impossibly fast sieges are placed.

GvG needs a total revamp and should be completely changed. As it is now, if you aren't up against bots, you just lose your sectors in the middle of the night when you're asleep or while at work. A lot of the problem goes back to the Arc as well.. once it was introduced, people started getting level 80+ attack GBs which I don't think Inno ever intended to happen. Having 350 to 500+% attack makes GvG pretty much trivial when you want to capture a sector.
 
That's 80 fights in less than 30 seconds.

I dont exclude the possibility of bots being used. but I do have experience of a guild who does take a sector in 30secs. 15 fighters, all using a fast browser and autobattle. each fight takes just a few seconds, maybe 5. 80 fights / 15 fighters * 5 sec = 27 seconds. with reseige it takes longer of course, but 30 secs to take all 80 fights is NOT evidence of using bots
 

DeletedUser9062

Guest
Hi Sorry for my english !

I think the only way to counter the fake guilds or to stop a guild to free sectors and take them back:
Say that my guild have 22 sectors full armored.. So 1 sector down maybe is 1000 goods... then why the attacking guild should play 5 goods and i must defend with 1000?
i think the attacking guild must pay for the first 2 sectors the half goods at least of my guilds 1 sector... then both teams will have a purpose to make a war.. and not just for damage the big guilds...
you cant fight with 1000 goods vs 5 even if you are the top 1 guild of the world... this needs to stop... war must have a purpose and not just damage others with fake guilds..

And one more suggestion is to stop the all ages map costs metals.. we have 2 eras of goods close to 700000 per good.. and are useless
 

DeletedUser8316

Guest
I dont exclude the possibility of bots being used. but I do have experience of a guild who does take a sector in 30secs. 15 fighters, all using a fast browser and autobattle. each fight takes just a few seconds, maybe 5. 80 fights / 15 fighters * 5 sec = 27 seconds. with reseige it takes longer of course, but 30 secs to take all 80 fights is NOT evidence of using bots

I never said it was.. but you ignored some of my comment... that was with at least 3+ people actively breaking the sieges all using auto attack as well. It's pretty easy to tell when someone is using a macro or bot.. the lag gets really bad almost similar to a DDOS attack. When certain people aren't involved in GvG on a given night, there is no lag at all and we can defend pretty easily or even take sectors from said guild. However, when those few certain players show up in the logs, it's impossible to defend let alone take even 1 sector. We've had at least one long time player quit over it. (Said guild has had at least 2 top players caught violating the game rules already. )

My whole point was that you cannot rule out the possibility that some people are using bots or keyboard macros or something similar.

GvG as it stands now is pretty pointless. It's just swapping sectors at odd hours when no one is on to defend. As long as you can be on at recalc to take just 1 sector, you can then spend the next 24 hours attacking at your leisure. I'm not sure how you fix that... maybe reducing the shield time to 8 hours would help or it might make it worse yet who knows. It seems like Inno gave up on GvG since they haven't really done anything to it for going on close to 2 years now if memory serves.
 
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