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Rejected Flip-lock in GBG

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ArklurBeta

Baronet
Reason
It happens relatively often that a sector can be hit, but not flipped. Currently you can mark a sector with either "attack it", or "do not attack it", so if you want people to hit a sector but not flip it, you "need" to mark it as hit first, then be online to mark it as stop once it gets near to be closed, which isn't always doable. You can communicate it in the threads, but that's not always enough.
Details
I think the best would be to have a 3rd marker next to the "stop" and "hit" markers, which let's player to hit sectors without any warnings, but can't make progress on a sector that would be flipped otherwise. Even if 10 people are hitting at the same time and the sector is at 155, once the sector is at 159, the rest of the players can finish their fights (or negs), but there won't be progress added to the sector (and at that point, no fight/neg can be started). Perhaps the GBG Officers (those who have rights to place/delete buildings and place markers) can flip the sectors even with this new marker, for example, if they have the "Battleground Ignore Tagging Confirmation" option OFF.

I was also thinking about just changing the current stop marker's behavior, but think a separate marker would be more straightforward.
Balance
N/A
Abuse Prevention
N/A
Summary
I believe with this change GBG Officers will have an easier job make sure guild members are following the strategy needed either for an "easy round" (IYKWIM) or when fighting against a strong guild where flipping a sector unintentionally / at the wrong time can make the difference between controlling the map or being pushed back to the HQ.
Have you looked to see if this has already been suggested?
I have read the DSNL and checked previous submissions for similar idea.
Make it possible to mark a sector that can be hit, but not flipped.

EDIT: I would like to clarify that the emphasize of the idea is on the functionality of making it possible to make a sector "unflipable", not on the part of whether you can finish battles/negs. Pointing this out because most of the comments is about that part, but that's - in my eyes at least - not important, but I understand that it seems many very much dislikes that "little side note" I put there.
 
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This suggestion has been closed. Votes are no longer accepted.
If a player tries to hit a "do not attack" sector a warning pops up that has to be deliberately overridden in order to continue. This is a great feature that was recently added. Now, the risk of "accidentally" flipping a "do not attack" sector comes from (1) rogue players and (2) late application of the "do not hit" marker when many players are hitting the sector. Both of these causes are within the control of Guild management. I don't think that it is necessary for INNO to do the job of GBG leaders. Just my opinion.
 

ArklurBeta

Baronet
If a player tries to hit a "do not attack" sector a warning pops up that has to be deliberately overridden in order to continue. This is a great feature that was recently added. Now, the risk of "accidentally" flipping a "do not attack" sector comes from (1) rogue players and (2) late application of the "do not hit" marker when many players are hitting the sector. Both of these causes are within the control of Guild management.

Although I agree what you wrote, it seems like you didn't read the "Reason" section. Yes, if I'm online, I can mark it in time, and what you wrote, can be applied. But what if I know I won't be able to be here when the sector opens (or another GBG Officer)? I want people to hit the sector, just don't want them to flip it. I don't want to mark it as stop in advance, because it's either very tedious if you enable the warning window, or would make people disable it, which makes the purpose of the hold marker kinda meaningless (I still consider it a bit weird you can disable it easily, think many people still not aware you can actually do that).

I don't think that it is necessary for INNO to do the job of GBG leaders.

If you refer to this new proposed marker as that, why not the existing ones? I don't think it's that much different. You can also communicate to the members to hit something or do not hit, so with your mentality, those markers are already "doing the job of GBG leaders". I would rather call these "tools" for leaders, not some automated things that do the job.
 
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I think it's a good idea. Yes, with a well-friended guild and good players, this also works with the chat. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. This suggestion would be a good help for the GBG management.
 
But what if I know I won't be able to be here when the sector opens (or another GBG Officer)? I want people to hit the sector, just don't want them to flip it.
Let's say we're Diamond League and a sector gets marked with this "hit but do not flip" feature and the sector gets loaded to 159 and locked but Guild GBG leadership is not available to flip it when another guild makes a run at it. How would this work?
 

CrashBoom

Legend
and obviously all fights/negs that don't give progress to that sector will also don't give any rewards :rolleyes:

or else this idea would be an exploit
 

ArklurBeta

Baronet
and obviously all fights/negs that don't give progress to that sector will also don't give any rewards :rolleyes:

or else this idea would be an exploit

How would it be an exploit? Don't forget, you can't start neither a battle nor a neg once it reached the "flipping point". Sure, theoretically speaking, 80 members could communicate to hit at "T-2", 79 members getting rewards without makeing progress, but it's very unrealistic.

And I didn't close the door on the possibility to not to give rewards, it can be implemented that way if it feels more balanced, but don't think it can be exploited.
 

CrashBoom

Legend
How would it be an exploit?
how would it be not ?

normally when hitting 160 all running fights and negs are aborted

but now you let it continue to finish those fights / negs ?

it can be implemented that way if it feels more balanced
the only correct implementation would be that when hitting the flip-lock all running fights/negs are cancelled like they would when hitting 160


And I didn't close the door on the possibility to not to give rewards
ALL rewards ??

that are also ranking points. rewards from finishing fights,negs like HC or Space Carrier. or counting them for quests and so on ?

because if you deny ALL rewards then it actually would be the same as cancelling the action ;)


once the sector is at 159, the rest of the players can finish their fights (or negs),
why? when hitting 160 they can't :rolleyes:

back to that question
How would it be an exploit?
here the explanation

you put on the flip-lock on every sector
all players can ALWAYS finish their action (what they can't do now)
and then release the lock and close the sector

so a guild will ALWAYS be able to finish more then the 160 actions in every sector

Sure, theoretically speaking, 80 members could communicate to hit at "T-2", 79 members getting rewards without makeing progress, but it's very unrealistic.
practically speaking
it is done in every sector

and that is very realistic in guilds which want to maximize their actions in GBG
 
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ArklurBeta

Baronet
As I said, if players feel like it's more balanced if fights/negs can't be finished, like how it works now, it can be implemented that way. I personally don't think it's that much of a big deal (either way), but I'm not against it.
 

iPenguinPat

Squire
The current setup where a popup happens is annoying. Most players I know just turn off the popup because it's so obnoxious and unnecessary 99.9% of the time. Guild with 20+ fighters going at once have to put the "stop sign" up way early or risk flipping. Many hits occur after the stop sign goes up because of this. and it's necessary...

It also doesn't factor in players that are manually fighting or negotiating. When guilds are moving fast, the time it takes to negotiate or do a manual fight can literally be dozens of advances and those players have no way of seeing happen until it's too late..

It also doesn't account for spies and/or alts. Even when screening players that join the guild carefully, it's impossible to keep out all spies and/or alts.

More fine control for GBG leaders makes sense.

it could be locking the sector from being hit... or it could make it so that only certain members can flip the sector. Or it could be that the sector requires a confirmation to flip.. like "are you sure you want to capture this sector?" type thing.

Regardless, the current situation is better than it was originally, but it's still not really sufficient for the level on control needed in a competitive environment.

As for "manage your members better" - I'd be surprised if the people saying this have regularly led competitive seasons in gbg. It's easy to say, but it's a lot harder to do in practice. Sometimes it's lag. Sometimes it's simply people zoning out. or too many people hitting any once. In theory "lead your guild better" sounds great, but in practical application, there are a lot more variables at play than simply leadership.
 
Part of the idea was allowing people to hit sectors past the flip point but not get any credit for this. This feels like an exploit somehow, like all these people with their hc/sc get to benefit and possibly not have their attrition raise either? Part of the fun was working with your guild (or not) and finding the best sector to hit.

So for that reason (and being chaotic neutral and appreciating spies), I cannot vote yes to this dress.
 

ArklurBeta

Baronet
Part of the idea was allowing people to hit sectors past the flip point but not get any credit for this.

Nope, I feel like you misunderstood what I wrote. I merely meant that if 10 people are hitting a sector when it's at 155, 4 will able to finish their battles (let's assume no one is doing negs), but I thought those who are still doing battles on their scree, should be able to finish the battles. Once the sector is at 159, no one can do neither battles nor negs (in diamond league, that is) Or, those who can with the necessary rights, will flip the sector.

Since you are not the first (last?) who points at this (in my eyes) little detail, which wasn't really the focus of the idea, I edited my post.
 

Yekk

Viceroy
Let's say we're Diamond League and a sector gets marked with this "hit but do not flip" feature and the sector gets loaded to 159 and locked but Guild GBG leadership is not available to flip it when another guild makes a run at it. How would this work?

One of the keys of GBG is having enough leaders. Without such your chances of having a split map partner guild greatly decrease. Yes a guild may lose a tile from time to time but that happens with or without the improvement. The player who sees this and would have done the flip should have been made a leader. Plus in guilds that are smaller this change need not be used. Leaders can be told the how's and when's to use it.
 

GeniePower

Merchant
One of the keys of GBG is having enough leaders. Without such your chances of having a split map partner guild greatly decrease. Yes a guild may lose a tile from time to time but that happens with or without the improvement. The player who sees this and would have done the flip should have been made a leader. Plus in guilds that are smaller this change need not be used. Leaders can be told the how's and when's to use it.
That greatly depends on how you use it. It's primary use imo is to prevent accidental flips in the heat of the battle. As soon as the battle is over, I would take off the marker so anyone can make the decision to flip when the need arises because another guild is running the tile up. If you leave the marker there with the intent that only leaders can do the actual flip, then yes those leaders have to be available.
 

saffe

Farmer
Let's say we're Diamond League and a sector gets marked with this "hit but do not flip" feature and the sector gets loaded to 159 and locked but Guild GBG leadership is not available to flip it when another guild makes a run at it. How would this work?

A solution can be that 2 minutes after the 159 the third marker gets automaticaly removed, because its only purpose is to prevent flip when many are hitting it at det same time. The third marker on a sector that has been standing still on 159 for 2 minutes has already done its job, and can be automaticly deactivated so the sector gets opened for all to flip after that time.
 

The Lady Ann

Baronet
A solution can be that 2 minutes after the 159 the third marker gets automaticaly removed, because its only purpose is to prevent flip when many are hitting it at det same time. The third marker on a sector that has been standing still on 159 for 2 minutes has already done its job, and can be automaticly deactivated so the sector gets opened for all to flip after that time.

no, some sectors my guild will hold for strategic reasons for an hour or more, I don't want the hand removed from any sector unless one of our strategy team lifts it
 

saffe

Farmer
no, some sectors my guild will hold for strategic reasons for an hour or more, I don't want the hand removed from any sector unless one of our strategy team lifts it
I understand that, so what if the sector is being stolen by another clan and we loose it if we dont flip it and there is no GBG leader present to flip it ?
My comment was that the lock that prevents non leaders to flip it should go of after 2 minutes, and be replaiced with a hand.
The hand will still show that the sector should not be flipped, but now it is possible if nessecery to flip it in case of forced down or loose it.
 
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