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Feedback [Feedback] - Your First Great Building

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DeletedUser8341

Guest
well it's much better than a colosseum or notre dame, and some people build those... But overall i can't help thinking this is mostly a trap for new players, handing them a GB, encouraging them to spend FP to level it, only to learn later that they should probably pull it down.
I agree but actually building it - at level 1 - cetainly makes sense. 550 supplies per day at that age is a lot, and the 300 happiness of level 1 makes the 4x4 easily worthwhile space-wise. Even the 20 FP to get to level 1 is incredibly little, given that the end of Iron Age has a technology costing 20FP plus coins and supply.

I just worry that the player might get the wrong message and take the GB much further than is ultimately worthwhile.
 

DeletedUser8362

Guest
Just out of curiosity... can you win BP's for it by Aiding or is it treated as a special GB like the ToR or Observatory ??
 

DeletedUser6516

Guest
This GB is a bad idea. Players will use FPs in a GB that they will destroy shortly thereafter.
 

DeletedUser8362

Guest
This GB is a bad idea. Players will use FPs in a GB that they will destroy shortly thereafter.

You mean like the Notre Dame, Colosseum, Space Needle etc ??... you'll be amazed how many players quit before getting their first GB or rush through their research and neglect getting GB's and then suddenly find themselves as cannon fodder in a later era... I think this is quite a good idea... so what if the GB is rubbish later on... 20fp first level is hardly a game changer..

and it looks good, for a small size...
 

DeletedUser

Guest
This seems like a good idea to me I've noticed some players in my neighborhood (Modern Era) have still no GB's.
Not many but still.
It might be because they want to invest in the techtree only but likely they haven't been properly introduced.
I'd like to point out that it is important that the building of choice is really rewarding to them because I can remember when I started playing FoE that I was very maybe even overly conscience about the space a GB takes and have researched very deeply if that was worth it not only for space but also for the commitment to donate many FP's which are rare in the beginning.
I'd suggest a nice small GB and if it shows clearly it rewards it's space greatly it might properly introduce them.
In earlier ages a solid medaille income seems very nice for example.
From my point of view if it wasn't for the nice size Zeus has I might had hasistated to take GB's for a long time as it feels as a very perminent decision unlike buildings we can always sell.

Edit: I guess I am saying it should in no way feel like a waste because this might make them more shy to build more GB's in the long run.
This is also why I doubt that the Colosseum is quite a good building to offer players who just started.
It is pretty large for a little city and sooner or later it has to go I assume.
 
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DeletedUser7059

Guest
Just out of curiosity... can you win BP's for it by Aiding or is it treated as a special GB like the ToR or Observatory ??
Its stated as "no age" ;) an becoase there are no M/P building´s from "no age" you cannot get BP this way. ;)
 
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xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
I should add that as i was going to go do the questline and report on it here since so many can't, i don't actually have it - what's the trigger condition (i'm iron age on beta)

(i do already have GBs, if not having any is required to trigger it)
 

DeletedUser7951

Guest
Okay here's daft question: Does people really need to be thaught about great buildings? I'm not a rocket scientist and I managed to figure out pretty quickly (first blueprint I got from aiding) what was the point of a great building. It didn't take long before I figured how I could get more blueprints either. Donating FP to a GB didn't require a tutorial. I even managed to figure out that a Colosseum might not be the ideal GB to build as it was huge for little benefit. People who don't have a GB probably doesn't bother to hunt for bp, rather play a bit different etc. ( I assume there's still a strategy element to this game)

I haven't seen the quest-line, sadly, but I can't see the huge need for this. Really can't.
 

DeletedUser8341

Guest
On the one hand, even new players are being encouraged to invest forge points in great buildings. (In case anyone needs reminding, developing a GB means pausing on the tech tree.)

On the other hand, event research requirements have been reverted to "move forward or stop doing the quest". (In case anyone need reminding, staying at the beginning of an era is always bad news, so "do this research" is encouraging researching at least most of an era, while not levelling up GBs.)

Can we take it that this is deliberate and FoE is aiming to totally frustrate players, who are unable to follow any kind of long-term strategy while actually engaging in the game?
 

DeletedUser5347

Guest
Goodmorning everyone,
In my opinion, the Great Buildings are not intended only for use in terms of earnings that can be made, but also for completeness and beauty of the city that is going to build.
So it isn't correct to preclude a questline that can make a GE for some players (maybe you could have to pay for diamonds or anything else).
Additionally, each player can choose whether to participate or not, or whether to build the new GE or not, and if so, to what extent will it be upgraded.
Another reason why I ask you to make the quest available to everyone.
Personally, i love GE's so much that I've built them all ...
So I say OK to the new quest, but available for everyone ...
Bye
 

DeletedUser8341

Guest
Goodmorning everyone,
In my opinion, the Great Buildings are not intended only for use in terms of earnings that can be made, but also for completeness and beauty of the city that is going to build.
So it isn't correct to preclude a questline that can make a GE for some players (maybe you could have to pay for diamonds or anything else).
Additionally, each player can choose whether to participate or not, or whether to build the new GE or not, and if so, to what extent will it be upgraded.
Another reason why I ask you to make the quest available to everyone.
Personally, i love GE's so much that I've built them all ...
So I say OK to the new quest, but available for everyone ...
Bye
It really doesn't make sense for advanced players to go through a quest, donating 1FP here or there. The GB will be available to all .. though that means it will be driven far up the levels by those who can afford doing so at no cost, which is a bit silly.
 

YukonJack

Farmer
I agree new players need to understand GBs better but giving them a horrible non GB that doesn't work like other GBs and is virtually worthless in an era or two is not a good way to go about it. Unless they are told straight out in the questline not to get carried away leveling this mock GB. And is explained that GBs don't come from questlines, GBs cost good etc...

Also, this is beta. Shouldn't we be testing the quest line even though it will only be available earlier on? How could we really give feedback or find bugs on something were not able to see?

Will this quest line be abortable or will new players, or anyone starting a new world now be forced to put down and use FP to level a GB they are just going to delete? Why introduce it in IA and not part of the stone age tutorial? At least stone age would make it last a bit longer for people and by the time they get to IA they should be focusing on the better BA/IA GBs. LoA, Zeus, Babel. If anyone waits to IA to learn about GBs then they're behind the curve and have already been confused by earning BPs. They either have figured it out by then so there's no need for this or this is going to get in the way of them getting worthwhile GBs. If it's a tutorial it belongs in Stone Age.

I agree with the questline being beta tested by a wider audience and also that when it goes live it should be introduced late in the Stone Age, perhaps along with guilds in the smithery tech, I do not think, however, that it is a waste, as it does not cost any goods and it is a 3x3 building. Costing only forge points means that even if a player decides to delete it later on, they are not really losing anything but happiness. Forge points, even when purchased with coins, have only a cost of time, time that is going to be spent playing the game anyway. Having to decide later on whether or not to delete it, also has the added benefit of making strategic thinking more likely, but as mentioned, that should be part of the tutorial (making a player aware of the need for strategy in the long term).

Now, I would just like to suggest an addition for ALL great buildings. I would like to see a 5 FP button added in the leveling menu of GBs, perhaps next to the diamond option of instantly leveling, which would help in the FP swap threads, especially for lower aged players that are only able to contribute smaller amounts of FP.
 

qaccy

Emperor
I don't see a problem with this, other than it's going to be rather tough for me to find BPs to build it. :( I've got every GB built in my main city and don't see a very realistic way to obtain this one. Perhaps the quest series can be made to appear for all players regardless of age? Tasks suitable for bronze/iron age players shouldn't be too difficult to complete, and it would allow someone like me who's interested in owning every GB the opportunity to acquire it. Perhaps make the quests skippable for those above the early ages who aren't interested (if possible), and even if they aren't there's not going to be any obligation to build it once the quests are completed.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that while yes, it's a low-value GB meant for very early game players, it's also going to be very difficult to acquire BPs if you do happen to be interested in building it and don't receive them from the quests. Aside from my 'crazy hoarder' case, it does also look stunning and might have value to someone merely for aesthetics.
 

DeletedUser6764

Guest
How much time do you think a player can stay in the Iron Age? with this I say goodbye to this thread for not reading nonsense ..
 

DeletedUser8341

Guest
Per square at level 10 (using that level just as a guide):
Oracle of Delphi 777 supply & 189 happiness
Notre Dame 302 supply & 163 happiness

When you look at returns for FP investment, The Oracle (which costs no goods and is smaller) is somewhat worse on happiness but the larger Notre Dame is far more expensive on supply.

I think this shows how poor the Notre Dame is and why so few build it. Perhaps now the value of Notre Dame can be reviewed.
 
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Cardena

Squire
Per square at level 10 (using that level just as a guide):
Oracle of Delphi 777 supply & 189 happiness
Notre Dame 302 supply & 163 happiness

When you look at returns for FP investment, The Oracle (which costs no goods) is somewhat worse on happiness but the Notre Dame is far more expensive on supply.

I think this shows how poor the Notre Dame is and why so few build it. Perhaps now the value of Notre Dame can be reviewed.

Why? It is nice that some decisions, like whether to build Notre Dame or not, are made easy. ;)
 

qaccy

Emperor
@Prinza the Hunter The numbers actually indicate that the Oracle is better on both counts. It's rather odd for a 'Stone Age' GB (it's cheaper than Bronze, so this is what I'm calling it) to outperform a GB numerically that's 4 ages above it. While it's more likely for this to mean that the Oracle will be toned down, it would be nice if the nerf bat swung upwards instead in this instance, because here are happiness values of other GBs at level 10, in ascending order of FP cost:

1. Oracle 1700 3x3 - 189/sq
2. Colosseum 4000 6x7 - 95/sq
3. Hagia 6400 7x6 - 152/sq
4. Notre Dame 3900 4x6 - 163/sq
5. Dresden 4900 5x5 - 196/sq
6. Alcatraz 11300 10x7 - 161/sq
7. Space Needle 4800 6x5 - 160/sq
8. Atomium 9700 7x6 - 231/sq
9. Lotus 10000 6x6 - 278/sq
10. Gaea 12300 6x4 - 513/sq

Going purely by age, you can see that it does generally go up as you move down the list (and up in age). Dresden is perhaps a bit high, Alcatraz and Space Needle are a touch too low, and Gaea completely blows everything else away. The Needle would probably be slightly worse than Atomium regardless and possibly even Alcatraz, since larger buildings tend to have more value per square to compensate for taking up more space and being harder to place, which in this case would probably overcome the age difference (Alcatraz is over 2x the size of the Needle). However, the given happiness value for the Oracle would place it firmly around the Colonial age if not higher, which is very odd for a supposed 'first' GB. It's certainly extremely powerful especially considering a new player will basically have it handed to them. There will be some deviation of course, but it can be assumed that even at level 1, this GB's going to be better than a lot of the above listed, especially with no need to hunt BPs and no goods cost. If any rebalancing is done, it's very likely this GB will see a reduction in capability but it's also pretty likely that it won't be touched since they're both fairly low-impact bonuses.
 
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DeletedUser8341

Guest
I don't think it is possible to make straight comparisons on only the happiness aspect of GBs that are turning out different things besides the happiness. Are medals more use than goods, goods more useful than units, units more udeful than supplies - and if so, in what quantities? These things are subjective and dependant on many factors.

Notre Dame is directly comparable because it provides the same two benefits, so only the space and FP cost need to be looked at to draw conclusions.
 
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