Feedback [Feedback] - Oceanic Future Part 4

[DeletedUser5097]

About the GB, I think the bonus is very powerfull as it is. I mean we have OP
attacker bonusses (also GE lvl 4 lol, so it's equel), a chanche on instance kill
or huge damage with AO and attacker bonusses and this GB adds even a
direct instant kill chance. Pretty powerfull in my oppinion. This does not mean
that I'm against this ''skill'', I like this skill. Just pointing out that I disagree that
it's underpowerd or weak.
Personal I'm suprised that none of the stats are fixed. I'm talking about chance
and times of use. Normaly one of this two are fixed. For example V1, the first
3x loot is affected by it, so that's fixed. The amount of extra goods output is
not fixed and dynamic. With Dynamic tower it's just in the opposite: the amount
of extra goods are fixed, while times of use is dynamic and will grow when the GB
get's stronger.
As I did read a few posts, most would like to get more changes. I think making the
change itself fixed and the times of use fixed would be the best way to go.
For example: between 20% - 30% change fixed
times of use lvl 1 5x, lvl 2 6x, etc.
Just to give a example. So no mater the lvl the changes are the same, so it's
fixed. However the times of use can grow. As it's now and your change can grow
endless you will get at some point that it's almost garranteed to instance kill one
unit in begin of first X battles, making the GB OP in my oppinion. While making
the change fixed is that impossible, but times of use will grow and still there is
a good change to instant kill a unit. Making the GB not OP and still worth building
it; since one enemy less to kill is a great advantage...

About the unit, animail of choise, great a fames prehistorical sea creature, amazing.
The unit itself, a huge dissepointment. Just a behmoth with some upgrades and
a downgrade in skill (forgot how to hide, lol) in a new designe. Very sad I did hope
for a 5th unit (that's for me kind of a bonus unit) a unique skill.

 

[qaccy]

I think the Nautilus may end up being pretty underwhelming, sadly. Hover tanks work much better against them than they do against subs (because they don't have to worry about taking Contact damage), so if they do end up being prevalent in GE then that's just going to shift more towards using hover tanks in even more battles than they already are. Perhaps the Nautilus could also get a second skill to make it more appealing? Just having Force Field probably isn't enough - even the Behemoth also has stealth, although it's fairly hard for it to use. I dunno, but I personally can't think of a situation where I'd want to use them over subs at least. Against turtles I either use my own turtles, eels, or hovers depending on the rest of the units in the enemy's army because subs aren't a very reliable counter against them and they're pretty fragile against everything else too.

Or is it too late to submit suggestions on improvement for this unit? Did we spend too much time focusing solely on the Kraken to get feedback in on the other content of this update? lol

 

[DeletedUser8150]

I think the Nautilus may end up being pretty underwhelming, sadly. Hover tanks work much better against them than they do against subs (because they don't have to worry about taking Contact damage), so if they do end up being prevalent in GE then that's just going to shift more towards using hover tanks in even more battles than they already are. Perhaps the Nautilus could also get a second skill to make it more appealing? Just having Force Field probably isn't enough - even the Behemoth also has stealth, although it's fairly hard for it to use. I dunno, but I personally can't think of a situation where I'd want to use them over subs at least. Against turtles I either use my own turtles, eels, or hovers depending on the rest of the units in the enemy's army because subs aren't a very reliable counter against them and they're pretty fragile against everything else too.

Or is it too late to submit suggestions on improvement for this unit? Did we spend too much time focusing solely on the Kraken to get feedback in on the other content of this update? lol

I never thought i'd still be using hovers but they still rock. You're right stealth would probably change the dynamic on the nautilus radically as they'd become turtle killers and quite difficult to counter and the obvious see thought stealth units (crab - range) and AF Artillery (its artillery duh!) both would be seriously compromised against them.

 

[qaccy]

@Pevsner Barring the flying ability, stealth would probably be the next best option but that depends on what terrain provides it. Crabs don't care about stealth regardless, but that's fine because they're intended to take out ranged units anyway (in a vacuum at least), and the Nautilus matchup may even be more favorable than against subs with Contact being removed from the equation. It's a similar situation with plasmas, though with an unfavorable bonus instead of a favorable one. If the Nautilus had stealth, viable counters would be eels, hovers, crabs and subs. Subs probably wouldn't win, but you'd have to take a hit back every time you attack one so you wouldn't be coming out undamaged like you might be looking for when using a stealth unit. Eels also don't count as a counter when they're being controlled by a defending army because the AI doesn't use them properly when they're paired with a low-movement unit such as turtles.

Perhaps the Nautilus could have an 'improved' version of stealth as its special ability, maybe even in exchange for Force Field. It'd be the same as normal stealth, but would always be active regardless of terrain type. If such a thing is possible within the code, that could be pretty interesting and would somewhat make up for the, once again, pretty poor terrain bonuses this unit has.

 

[DeletedUser]

story quest "Lost Calls" is wrong

"Activate 1 boost"
inventory boosts don't count

so the text must be changed to
"Activate 1 boost in tavern"

 

[xivarmy]

@Pevsner Barring the flying ability, stealth would probably be the next best option but that depends on what terrain provides it. Crabs don't care about stealth regardless, but that's fine because they're intended to take out ranged units anyway (in a vacuum at least), and the Nautilus matchup may even be more favorable than against subs with Contact being removed from the equation. It's a similar situation with plasmas, though with an unfavorable bonus instead of a favorable one. If the Nautilus had stealth, viable counters would be eels, hovers, crabs and subs. Subs probably wouldn't win, but you'd have to take a hit back every time you attack one so you wouldn't be coming out undamaged like you might be looking for when using a stealth unit. Eels also don't count as a counter when they're being controlled by a defending army because the AI doesn't use them properly when they're paired with a low-movement unit such as turtles.

Perhaps the Nautilus could have an 'improved' version of stealth as its special ability, maybe even in exchange for Force Field. It'd be the same as normal stealth, but would always be active regardless of terrain type. If such a thing is possible within the code, that could be pretty interesting and would somewhat make up for the, once again, pretty poor terrain bonuses this unit has.

Giving us an even-easier-to-keep-stealthed unit is probably not the right route for future development. It would make further ages have the same troubles as OF does with hover tanks - only while hover tanks are getting to a point where some things do actually take a number of hits, the nautilus will have updated stats making sure perma-stealth is a relevant mechanic for another 3 ages. But without some serious defensive juju the nautilus will be irrelevant on our side of the field (force field is conceptually a powerful ability, but in practice the units its attached to so far are given underwhelming defensive stats making it very difficult to scale to the point where it can shine (maybe with level 100+ on all your military GBs)) - turtles or eels being a better option to kill turtles, and hover tanks or dragon drones being the option to avoid turtles and focus on the rest of the army. On their side of the field with 200% or whatever it is boost to the defensive stat, it might just be enough to not be turtle food but yes, is hover tank food - even if it winds up taking 5 or 6 shots from the outdated unit to kill - mantas take 4 regularly for me in diff 4, and don't stop hover tanks.

I suspect avoiding flying is happening for the same reason - it trivialises enough fights that they're hoping letting the dragon drone's low attack stat get outdated will solve the corner they've put themself in with balancing ages that don't progress as fast as they used to in terms of unit stats.

My suggestion would be to keep forcefield on the nautilus and slap on a longer-range version of dugin with a hefty defense value to help the forcefield shine (and not just for people who have level 50+ GBs). Crabs and eels being the natural counter are relatively short-range units but dug-in's 2 tile range to get full value is a little extreme in eras that revolve around everything having range, it is an ability from LMA after all. The eels would have a hard time finding a bush inside 2 cells perhaps, and the crabs are pretty slow to get there anytime soon. Perhaps something like 'evasive 140 - gains defense bonus if attacker is more than 5 squares away'. Edit: OR give it a really neat effect 'evasive 20 - gains additional defense for EACH square further away the attacker is'. Another thought in this vein if needed is to lower its attack power to compensate for turning it into a real tank. As has been seen with hover tanks a defensively viable unit doesn't need really high attack to shine. So if you needed to take away some of its base attack to make it useful that'd be ok!

 

[DeletedUser7942]

I think trying to figure out what to do with units as a player is potentially a futile effort because of all the dynamics involved; different areas of fighting in PvP, GvG, GE, cMap, then there's the AI and how it handles things both defensively and with autobattle, players attack/defense bonuses offensively and defensively, players skill level, with or without Rogues, varying maps, etc.

All these things are going to affect players fights differently and then you try to consider the unit itself whatever it may be and one player may say it does great and the other may say not really because their experiences have differed due to the many different dynamics that have affected their outcomes.

 

[DeletedUser5097]

Giving us an even-easier-to-keep-stealthed unit is probably not the right route for future development. It would make further ages have the same troubles as OF does with hover tanks - only while hover tanks are getting to a point where some things do actually take a number of hits, the nautilus will have updated stats making sure perma-stealth is a relevant mechanic for another 3 ages. But without some serious defensive juju the nautilus will be irrelevant on our side of the field (force field is conceptually a powerful ability, but in practice the units its attached to so far are given underwhelming defensive stats making it very difficult to scale to the point where it can shine (maybe with level 100+ on all your military GBs)) - turtles or eels being a better option to kill turtles, and hover tanks or dragon drones being the option to avoid turtles and focus on the rest of the army. On their side of the field with 200% or whatever it is boost to the defensive stat, it might just be enough to not be turtle food but yes, is hover tank food - even if it winds up taking 5 or 6 shots from the outdated unit to kill - mantas take 4 regularly for me in diff 4, and don't stop hover tanks.

I suspect avoiding flying is happening for the same reason - it trivialises enough fights that they're hoping letting the dragon drone's low attack stat get outdated will solve the corner they've put themself in with balancing ages that don't progress as fast as they used to in terms of unit stats.

My suggestion would be to keep forcefield on the nautilus and slap on a longer-range version of dugin with a hefty defense value to help the forcefield shine (and not just for people who have level 50+ GBs). Crabs and eels being the natural counter are relatively short-range units but dug-in's 2 tile range to get full value is a little extreme in eras that revolve around everything having range, it is an ability from LMA after all. The eels would have a hard time finding a bush inside 2 cells perhaps, and the crabs are pretty slow to get there anytime soon. Perhaps something like 'evasive 140 - gains defense bonus if attacker is more than 5 squares away'. Edit: OR give it a really neat effect 'evasive 20 - gains additional defense for EACH square further away the attacker is'. Another thought in this vein if needed is to lower its attack power to compensate for turning it into a real tank. As has been seen with hover tanks a defensively viable unit doesn't need really high attack to shine. So if you needed to take away some of its base attack to make it useful that'd be ok!

I agree, a full stealth skill would be too OP (over powerd), the hovertank is outdated for me
since we have eels. They are faster and has no hard time to kill. Finding places to hide are
maybe sometimes a bit difficult but that's okay, otherwise the unit would be too strong.
I agree that if the 5th OF unit is a defensive special unit, it would be good to have dug in
on it. Introducing a better version of it, I think they would name it more likely dug in 2 giving
more defensive bonus deppending on distance of the attacker would make the unit a better
unit, as you suggested. Personal I find it a good and intressting idea to upgrade a old skill
like dug in. I also agree that units should be able to shine reguardles from the lvl of your
GB's.

As a side note, for the skill fly for clearly flying units how are weak against artil. I have
a sollution: reintroduce fly skill in two levels:
Fly 1 - ignores terrain when moving
Fly 2 - ignores terrain when moving and immune against artil.
Fly 1 makes the unit only fast, fly 2 does what fly does right now, very helpfull for anti artil
units. While units how fly and beeing fast but weack against artil can use fly 1 since this
allow to go fast but still allows artil to hit them.

 

[qaccy]

@xivarmy Flying is technically a mechanic that far outlives the unit's age as well. A helicopter from CE still can't be killed by a turtle, for instance...well, not directly. Stealth isn't all-powerful like something like Power Shot, or even Reactive Armor. We as players can handle it pretty easily, it's mainly the AI that fumbles around with it. For example, we know that eels and raiders have no problem chasing a stealthed unit but we routinely use hover tanks against them because the AI will never rush us when they're paired with something like a turtle or behemoth. I just feel like the Nautilus needs something more as a defense against artillery, preferably something that doesn't hurt its counters' ability to fight them as well. Things like improved defensive bonuses against ranged attacks would affect all units, not just artillery and light units. While stealth would as well, in the case of a ranged unit (which doesn't normally retaliate when attacked unless it has Contact) it's not as big a deal for something to have to attack it directly unless the unit also has a hard time reaching it. Crabs and Eels would not, thanks to Blast and high movement. This is why I think stealth is a decent idea if flying is off the table.

@drakenridder I think some units currently have something like this already. Hover tanks for example, despite not having any special movement abilities listed, can cross water with no extra movement cost and vehicles in general tend to get discounts on crossing certain types of terrain. It's mainly OF where the units seem to lack any sort of reduction in movement cost for crossing terrain, making them in most cases a lot 'slower' than their AF counterparts. For example, a BF can almost always attack the other side of the field on turn 1, whereas a Sub cannot despite supposedly having a bigger range of movement

What this particular topic boils down to for me is that I think there should be more information given regarding unit movement, or it should be made simpler somehow. Rather than giving discounts on crossing terrain to non-flying units, normalize movement costs for everything (that isn't flying) and adjust movement numbers accordingly. This won't affect turn order at all since that's now based on a unit's 'speed' stat which is still currently hidden in-game, and that should be made visible somewhere as well. Elvenar has a much different look to the UI, but they managed to fit in the 'initiative' stat for each unit which tells you in what order everything moves in battle. FoE now needs something like this since there are more new units coming out with inconsistent speed stats than there are units where it matches the movement (which was the case historically):

Movement order for OF-AF units: Raider, Eel, Dragon, Manta, Sub/Champion, Crab/BF, Surrogate, Plasma, Behemoth, Turtle
Speed order for OF-AF units: Eel, Raider, Surrogate, Manta, Dragon, Sub, Turtle, Champion, BF, Plasma, Behemoth, Crab

As you can see, excluding the Champion no OF units have matching movement/speed values and only half of the AF units do. Considering how common it's becoming for units to not match speed with movement, and the importance of turn order in battle, I think it's high time that this hidden stat be made visible in-game.

That was a long wall of text for a simple thing.

 

[DeletedUser5097]

@qaccy perhaps you did not know the ''secret skill'' hover that is used on hovertanks, they
don't touch the ground anyways. Manta's used fly, but since it doesn't make sense that
turtles are strong against them and could not hit them with fly... while the sub lack in
movment, a weacker fly skill would solve that in the future (theme ages).
A unit that is hard to kill, thanks to high defensive stats and good defensive skills is still
going down easy with a proper unit that is good against it. Units with dug in are still easy
to kill with the proper unit how is good against it. So if the 5th OF unit will become realy
a tank with dug in, the units against it are still not as much affeacted by it anyways, since
they has a huge bonuse against it, making it still easy a 2-hit thing for them. Learn to use
the weackness of units, evolve strat. around it and it's getting less hard to kill units no
mater there (defensive) skills. For example the MG-teams vs PME tanks, the PME
tanks does have no trouble what so ever to kill MG-teams in a range attack, still they
use the dug in skill. Doesn't make sense to me why it would be diffrent with a OF-unit.
But since you have a huge problem with skills that afeact every unit, than you must
have also huge problems with stealth, afeacts much more all another ranged units and
reactive armor, also affeact every (range) strike. So no I don't get your point where the
problem is, to use the proper unit how is strong against a defensive unit...
Personal I think the 5th unit needs 2 things or at least one of them: more defence stats,
since it's a shell seacreature so natural strong in defence, or dug in to support it's defensive
nature, or both. At least something with it defence.
Fly as it is right now is just strong against artil, but only if you encounter a full artil defence
you can use any unit with fly no mater how weack you are or how many hits it needs. However
most battles evolved with a mixed army. If you strike with a CE copter it will instance killed
by eels, subs and other much stronger units. Making fly not living out that far... subs lack in
movment and clearly fly, a weacker version of fly that only helps them to move a bit would
be very helpfull.

 

[xivarmy]

You're absolutely right that flying is another ability that just will not go away for ages after it, which is why i'm suggesting they don't want to give us new flying units - dragon drones are my 3rd most used unit in OF GE (after Hover Tanks, and Turturrets) - partly this is because i have a couple dragon drone barracks for attack boost and nothing else to use them on so i force them to work wherever i can, but they do work (and are less aggravatingly boring fights than the tedious hover tank shuffle). Their multihit and no-retaliation is often enough of an advantage that if there's say 3 or so artillery in the first wave, i can take 7-8 into second wave and be enough to win. Dragon drone + 7 rogues is also my preference for dealing with first waves of all eels (though in this case there's a luck factor involved as to whether the eels arrange themself nicely and whether the one unit i might lose is the drone or a rogue - overall it's about 50/50 whether it works). I suspect TE combat drones with their long range might work just as well in some of those situations but lack the motivation to test it out since i don't naturally make those and what i have is working well enough.

 

[DeletedUser8262]

In my opinion there is something wrong when hover tanks regularly defeat OF city defense as well as being the most used unit in levels 1 - 3 in GE. As things are there is absolutely no incentive to anyone currently in FE to even consider progressing to AF and beyond. Please give us a decent new OF unit or substantially improve the ones released to date

 

[qaccy]

@drakenridder These so-called 'secret skills' I'm already aware of - as I said in my post, most vehicle-based units get some sort of discount when crossing certain types of terrain compared to normal 'walking' units. Regarding water specifically, even Ultra APs and Strike Teams can do so...do they feature this 'hover' ability as well? It's not really a skill, it's just some hidden flag that Inno programs for specific units with no real rhyme or reason to it sometimes. More generally obtuse and hidden things that can sometimes be confusing to keep track of, especially to people who may only just be getting into the battle system or perhaps just can't figure out why their Battle Fortresses get shot by Turturrets before they've had the chance to move when for most of the game they've been able to look at a unit's movement stat to see when everything's turn is going to be. Based on the AF and OF units, this mismatch looks like it's only going to become more common and I'm hoping it can be made clearer to players that movement is no longer indicative of turn order in battle.

All that being said, even if there is no flying unit in OF the movement problem could still be solved by giving some of the units more discounts when crossing terrain. As I also mentioned in my post, OF units in particular are sorely lacking in any sort of reduction when moving across terrain, and only two of them can even cross water despite all of the units being 'aquatic' in theme and two of them actually flying above the ground (neither of these can cross water).

@xivarmy Interesting that you're still getting so much mileage out of the Dragon Drones, though you admit that it's partly because they're 'cannon fodder' status for you in some battles. I never built many of them myself, mainly getting them from GE while I was still in AF, so I quickly replaced them with Mantas since I don't really see many situations where Drones would serve me better and I also couldn't just use something else entirely. Drones have woefully low attack as a tradeoff for their ability, so I was personally struggling at times to even kill Eels in two attacks (factoring in Heat) and battles with a lot of eels are about the only time I'd want to use Dragons - otherwise I could just use Hover Tanks in most cases and the Eel AI would be so screwed up that I can generally pick them off with no issue. But with Mantas, a two-turn kill is never a question and if the Orangery activates it's often just a single hit instead.

Continuing on with your musings, TE Drones do have interestingly relevant stats (especially that monstrous power) but I don't see where I'd use them instead of just Eels. Eels move sooner and are statistically superior, plus they have stealth to evade turtles/most other units until it's time to kill them. Flying is essentially permanent stealth against artillery, but offers no bonus against anything else and TE drones would definitely need 'something else' if they're going up against AF/OF units that include more than just artillery.

In my opinion there is something wrong when hover tanks regularly defeat OF city defense as well as being the most used unit in levels 1 - 3 in GE. As things are there is absolutely no incentive to anyone currently in FE to even consider progressing to AF and beyond. Please give us a decent new OF unit or substantially improve the ones released to date

Why would a single unit be considered an 'incentive' to move up in age? If you already don't see the current units as strong enough for that purpose, then what you have in mind is probably not a good idea for overall game balance. For example, Battle Fortresses are more useful than Hover Tanks against Arctic units because stealth isn't very useful against Dragon Drones, Plasma Artillery or even Recon Raiders in certain situations. Regarding Oceanic, across level 3 and 4 of GE I use Hover Tanks a total of 4 times, and those are the battles that never change week to week so levels 1 and 2 can never be reliably planned out in advance. However, the week I wrote down what I used for all 64 battles I used Hovers in 8 battles across levels 1 and 2. That adds up to 12 in total out of 64 battles...meanwhile, I used Turturrets in a total of 33 battles or just over half. While it's true that power increases are generally not as significant lately as they have been, it's also true that with all the different unit abilities there are now it's pretty difficult to hands-down say a single unit is 'better' than all others. Besides, nothing's stopping anyone from continuing to use Hover Tanks in AF/OF and there's a lot more to each age than simply military units. Anyway, if a strong unit is what you're looking for then the numbers (my numbers, at least) show the Turturret as being more powerful than a Hover Tank overall.

Besides, if you're sitting in FE your units have to go up against Rail Guns and that's generally not a very fun time, is it?

 

[xivarmy]

@xivarmy Interesting that you're still getting so much mileage out of the Dragon Drones, though you admit that it's partly because they're 'cannon fodder' status for you in some battles. I never built many of them myself, mainly getting them from GE while I was still in AF, so I quickly replaced them with Mantas since I don't really see many situations where Drones would serve me better and I also couldn't just use something else entirely. Drones have woefully low attack as a tradeoff for their ability, so I was personally struggling at times to even kill Eels in two attacks (factoring in Heat) and battles with a lot of eels are about the only time I'd want to use Dragons - otherwise I could just use Hover Tanks in most cases and the Eel AI would be so screwed up that I can generally pick them off with no issue. But with Mantas, a two-turn kill is never a question and if the Orangery activates it's often just a single hit instead.

Continuing on with your musings, TE Drones do have interestingly relevant stats (especially that monstrous power) but I don't see where I'd use them instead of just Eels. Eels move sooner and are statistically superior, plus they have stealth to evade turtles/most other units until it's time to kill them. Flying is essentially permanent stealth against artillery, but offers no bonus against anything else and TE drones would definitely need 'something else' if they're going up against AF/OF units that include more than just artillery.

On dragon drones : I actually didn't use them much in AF - i tried a lot because i like them conceptually, but they just didn't fit well in that era - kinda like hover tanks in FE. In OF They seem to have a better time with the style of 'sneak up a little, wait for turn 2, and then get first strike with multihits on the defense'.

On TE drones : Through AF i used them in GE. In FE they're the best railgun killer you had (especially pre-nerf railguns) and the only thing they struggled with is hover tanks. In AF the few fights where i wanted flyers they were often better than dragon drones because their range mattered more than anything dragon drones had to offer in the era.

On overall unit use - my stats for diff 3/4 this week (all 32 encounters fought):
Turtles : 13 fights, 78 used, 4 lost
Hovers : 10 fights, 78 used, 9 lost
Dragons : 10 fights, 59 used, 19 lost
Rogues : 5 fights, 25 used, 2 lost
Plasmas : 4 fights, 14 used, 1 lost
Crabs : 1 fight, 2 used, none lost

My boost atm is 250%/122% - but the strategies i use have worked for diff 4 since i passed 200% on the attack side pretty consistently - when i was at 160% i had a hard time with the dragons and hovers doing enough damage in the close fights - particularly with taking 4 hits to kill a crab at times. Defense stat mostly doesn't matter (you get 2 shot anyways 99% of the time with the roids diff 4 defenses have).

Spoiler: Fight Summary

Fight 33 : 7 manta ; 2 manta, 2 dragon
Use: 8 hovers Lost: 1 hover due to sloppiness

Fight 34 : 8 crab ; 2 crab, 2 BF
Use : 8 turtle Lost: None

Fight 35 : 4 sub, 4 turtle ; 2 surrogate, 2 turtle
Use : 8 dragon Lost: 1 dragon

Fight 36 : 2 sub, 3 manta, 2 eel, rogue ; 3 sub, 3 recon, 2 dragon
Use : 8 hover Lost: None

Fight 37 : 7 eels ; 3 mantas, 1 eel, 2 dragons
Use : 1 dragon, 7 rogue Lost : 1 dragon

Fight 38 : 4 turtle, 4 crab ; 1 turtle, 1 plasma, 3 crab
Use : 8 turtle Lost : None

Fight 39 : 4 sub, 4 eel ; 2 manta, 2 eel, 1 dragon
Use : 8 hover Lost : None

Fight 40: 2 turtle, 1 manta, 2 eel, 2 crab, 1 rogue ; 2 turtle, 2 manta, 1 eel, 1 recon raider, 2 behemoth
Use : 8 dragon Lost : 3 dragon

Fight 41 : 2 manta, 2 eel, 3 crab ; 1 manta, 3 eel, 2 crab, 1 dragon
Use: 2 turtle, 4 plasma, 2 crab Lost : None

Fight 42 : 3 sub, 2 eel, 3 crab ; 2 sub, 2 eel, 2 crab
Use: 4 turtle, 4 plasma Lost : None (bit fortunate terrain didn't let more subs hit first turn)

Fight 43 : 2 turtle, 2 sub, 2 manta, 2 eel ; 1 turtle, 2 sub, 1 manta, 2 eel
Use: 8 dragon Lost : 2 dragons

Fight 44 : 2 turtle, 1 sub, 1 manta, 1 eel, 2 crab, 1 rogue ; 2 turtle, 2 sub, 2 manta, 1 crab, 1 recon
Use: 6 turtle, 2 plasma Lost : 1 turtle

Fight 45 : 7 eel ; 3 turtle, 2 sub, 3 crab
Use: 1 dragon, 7 rogue Lost: 1 dragon, 1 rogue

Fight 46 : 4 sub, 4 eel ; 3 turtle, 1 manta, 3 crab
Use: 8 hover Lost : 1 hover

Fight 47 : 2 turtle, 4 eel, 2 crab ; 6 turtle, 2 crab
Use : 8 dragon Lost : 1 dragon

Fight 48 : 2 turtle, 1 sub, 1 manta, 2 eel, 1 crab, 1 champ ; 4 turtle, 4 crab
Use : 8 dragon Lost : 3 dragon

Fight 49 : 3 sub, 3 manta, 2 rogue ; 3 manta, 3 eel, 2 rogue
Use : 8 hover Lost : None

Fight 50 : 6 eel, 2 rogue ; 4 manta, 4 crab
Use : 8 hover Lost : 1 hover

Fight 51 : 1 turtle, 2 sub, 2 manta, 1 eel, 2 crab ; 2 turtle, 2 sub, 2 manta, 2 eel
Use : 4 turtle, 4 plasma Lost : 1 turtle, 1 plasma

Fight 52 : 2 sub, 2 manta, 2 eel, champ, rogue ; 4 turtle, 4 crab
Use : 8 hover Lost : 1 hover

Fight 53 : 2 turtle, 4 sub, 2 rogue ; 1 sub, 4 manta, 3 crab
Use : 6 turtle, 2 rogue Lost : None

Fight 54 : 8 eel ; 1 sub, 7 crab
Use : 1 dragon, 7 rogue Restart : Once Lost : 1 dragon, 1 rogue

Fight 55 : 2 turtle, 2 manta, 2 eel, 2 crab ; 3 turtle, 2 manta, 3 crab
Use : 8 hover Lost : None

Fight 56 : 4 sub, 4 crab ; 8 turtle
Use : 8 dragon Lost : 4 dragon

Fight 57 : 8 crab ; 8 eel
Use : 2 turtle, 6 hover Lost : 2 turtle, 3 hover

Fight 58 : 4 turtle, 2 eel, 2 crab ; 2 turtle, 2 sub, 4 crab
Use : 8 dragon Lost : 2 dragon

Fight 59 : 8 sub ; 2 turtle, 6 crab
Use : 6 turtle, 2 rogue Lost : None

Fight 60 : 4 turtle, 4 crab ; 2 turtle, 5 crab, 1 champ
Use : 8 turtle Lost : None

Fight 61 : 4 manta, 4 eel ; 4 manta, 4 crab
Use : 8 hover Lost : 2 hovers

Fight 62-64 : fodder
Use : 8 turtle, Lost : None

Especially in diff 3 a lot of the fights i could approach many ways - using turtles instead of dragons or hovers might find me occasions to use more crabs or maybe mantas, subs, or eels.

With respect to where the new unit might complicate, Fight 59 comes to mind where i'm using turtles to round up subs - and force field will be helpful making nautilus less vulnerable to that. However too many nautilus will probably turn that into another 8 Hover so... It's hardly diversity inspiring.

 

[Lionhead]

Is it on the drawingboard to add an icon on the righthand side, to indicate how many battles with the First Strike ability we have left?
That might be useful information helping us decide where to battle first. Neighbors, Continent, GvG or GE.

At least for me it would be more useful than knowing how many aid´s with DT boost I have left, or how many pick-up´s with St. Marks boost I have left.

 

[xivarmy]

Indeed - Some sort of indicator seems necessary - particularly since how it worked today for me doesn't seem to line up with how i thought it worked - and there's no way to tell for sure what it's doing.

The scenario : Some time before recalc i collected my kraken level 7 (11 battles, 28% chance). Then at recalc i fought 50 battles - don't remember any triggers, but that could be bad luck or i could've just not been paying attention. Afterwards i went and did my GE and got 2 triggers. Seeing as these were more than 50 battles after i collected it, i would've thought this impossible.

Possibilities:
1) GvG doesn't count - if so it should be mentioned explicitly
2) 11 'battles' means 11 successes before you run out of charges - if so it should be worded better
3) There was some sort of bug that reset my count
4) You get to accumulate charges from past days you didn't use.

Which of these if any is the case could be intuited if there was an indicator somewhere to show what's left - not that that'd excuse failing to explain the building properly in the description.

 

[DeletedUser7942]

Indeed - Some sort of indicator seems necessary - particularly since how it worked today for me doesn't seem to line up with how i thought it worked - and there's no way to tell for sure what it's doing.

The scenario : Some time before recalc i collected my kraken level 7 (11 battles, 28% chance). Then at recalc i fought 50 battles - don't remember any triggers, but that could be bad luck or i could've just not been paying attention. Afterwards i went and did my GE and got 2 triggers. Seeing as these were more than 50 battles after i collected it, i would've thought this impossible.

Possibilities:
1) GvG doesn't count - if so it should be mentioned explicitly
2) 11 'battles' means 11 successes before you run out of charges - if so it should be worded better
3) There was some sort of bug that reset my count
4) You get to accumulate charges from past days you didn't use.

Which of these if any is the case could be intuited if there was an indicator somewhere to show what's left - not that that'd excuse failing to explain the building properly in the description.

I'll guess part of option 3 mixed with part of option 1, that it bugged in GvG and didn't get utilized as it should have. But yes a counter makes perfect sense like the counters with other GB's, been suggested on here a few times don't know why they haven't implemented it.

 

[Lionhead]

Is it on the drawingboard to add an icon on the righthand side, to indicate how many battles with the First Strike ability we have left?
That might be useful information helping us decide where to battle first. Neighbors, Continent, GvG or GE.

At least for me it would be more useful than knowing how many aid´s with DT boost I have left, or how many pick-up´s with St. Marks boost I have left.

@Zarok Dai , @Darkstar ? Anyone?

 

[DeletedUser]

It's being considered as far as I know.