1. Province Buildings (Battlegrounds)

    We are happy to announce that the Province Buildings will be available for you starting with tomorrow's Battleground.
    For detailed information, please click here!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guild Battlegrounds

    We are finally bringing you the new PvP feature on September 26th: Guild Battlegrounds!
    For detailed information, please click here!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Halloween Event 2019

    Join us, if you dare, for this year's Halloween event!
    This year's Halloween season, we've transformed the meager questline of past years into a fully-fledged event with awesome rewards! For detailed information, please click here!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Antiques Dealer

    The Antiques Dealer is a brand new feature in Forge of Empires which aims to help players use items in their inventory which have succumbed to the dust of ages past!
    Do you want to know more about this new feature? Then click here!
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Cultural Settlement - Feudal Japan

    Arising from the Sengoku period of Feudal Japan, the clan of Akechi Mitsuhide has requested your help.
    As the Daimyo of his village, it is your task to lead the Feudal Japan to prosperity! Detailed information here!
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Ongoing Changelog w/c 7th October

    Please find the daily changelogs for this week here.
    Every day we'll make a post notifying of any bugfixes or changes to the game, or otherwise to let you know that no changes have taken place.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice

[Feedback] Guild Battlegrounds

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by In.My.ConTroL, Sep 23, 2019.

  1. aragon82

    aragon82 Master Corporal

    Aug 5, 2019
    What is called activity?
    - number of conquered sectors? (not shown)
    - number of fights/negotions? (not shown)
    - number of activ guildmates? (not shown)

    #1 definitly outdo us with 2nd and 3rd, maybe 1st also, but not with a hugh amount
    so controlling the GBG with a huge lead(like Sanctuary did) is definitly NOT the most important thing.... but the only one shown -> points!
    good job!

    let us look into a blackbox without any usefull information what we can do better or not.

    I really hope everyone started "league-progress" from 0, everything else(especially with the guilds packed together in the form they did) is wired.

    LASTWARRIOR1955 Major

    Sep 17, 2014
    Awaiting an answer on this one please Dev`s
    nataliafelitsyn and hsilva like this.
  3. balentone

    balentone Sergeant

    Jan 21, 2018
    I think another criteria is the number of players in the guild. Sanctuary has less 20 members than KYP.
  4. beelzebob666

    beelzebob666 Lieutenant-General

    Oct 19, 2018
    That is quite hard to accomplish... doing nothing will net you nothing... only if you have (had) at least one province you are qualified to get a reward - so getting everyone the same amount of VP is quite a challenge.

    I suppose it might even be intentional that even similar provinces give slightly different points to prevent such "dealings" from happening.
  5. The Envoy

    The Envoy Game Designer InnoGames

    Nov 5, 2018
    How the league system works has also been explained in a past "Live Q&A Video", but I am happy to write it here as well. :)

    Basically every guild has a value assigned, called "Match-Making Rating" (MMR).
    This value decides on the league allocation!

    When Battlegrounds started, every guild was assigned a specific MMR value, according to amount of members and recent activity in Guild Expeditions and GvG (this was the best approximation we had available at that time).
    So it was totally possible that two guilds were starting off in Gold league, but one had a weak MMR value, and the other one was strong. The guild with the strong MMR was therefore way closer to ranking up to platinum.

    That's why it may even happen that a guild that is placed 2nd gets promoted (because it was at the brink of ranking up anyway), and guild that places 1st will not climb in league (as the MMR was weak to begin with).
    However, this case should be rare because ...

    ... matchmaking of guilds for each battleground happens first and foremost using the MMR value. Therefore we can make sure to match guilds that are very close in terms of MMR.
    Imagine there are 10 guilds in gold, then we end up with two battlegrounds: One has the 5 guilds with the highest MMR within gold league, and the other instance has 5 guilds with the lowest MMR within gold league.

    In the long run this will make up for a more granular and therefore more fair competition.

    This may also hint at how we calculate the prestige gains from battlegrounds & leagues.
    We use the MMR to provide prestige, so that not every diamond guild ends up with exactly the same amount of prestige. ;)
  6. Gammatest

    Gammatest Corporal

    Sep 25, 2015
    Does the guild expeditions (gex) and gvg have an influence to the to the league (and MMR) every season or only at the very first beginning of the guild battlegrounds?
    kaymedic likes this.
  7. beelzebob666

    beelzebob666 Lieutenant-General

    Oct 19, 2018
    So all guilds in one GBG are directly one after another in the MMR order? Or is there still some randomness?

    If there is no random factor, guilds will often fight against the same guilds I suppose...

    Also in regard of your earlier comment about the gold guilds fighting in the platinum battleground getting higher MMR gains for placing high and lesser MMR losses when placing low: Is a similar concept applied to Battlegrounds of different "average" MMR of the same league? So will guilds in the gold battleground that comprises the gold guilds with the highest MMR have different MMR rises/losses from the guilds in the battleground with the lowest MMR values?

    Or are the possible wins/losses in MMR proportional to the difference between the own MMR and the highest/lowest MMR of the respective battleground?
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  8. aragon82

    aragon82 Master Corporal

    Aug 5, 2019
    sry not the video-generation of players, I grow up with written guides :D
    thx for the detailed awnsers!
    Emm55 and Mr.Quib like this.
  9. Toby2014

    Toby2014 Master Corporal

    Mar 13, 2018
    Will there a list with current MMR be published?
    nataliafelitsyn likes this.
  10. The Envoy

    The Envoy Game Designer InnoGames

    Nov 5, 2018
    That was only for the initial placement when the feature started. From now on, MMR only depends on performance within the Battlegrounds.

    It is in direct order, there is no randomness.

    The adjustments that are happening after a Battleground are too significant, so for you to have the exact same opponents every Battleground, your game world must be quite small. I doubt this will be the case for Beta. ;)

    MMR gains and losses are not relative to your current MMR or the MMR of your opponents. It merely depends on your relative placement (so being above or below the middle placement, and by how far you beat / fail it).
    As an example, for a battleground with 8 participants it could look like this:
    1st: +140 MMR
    2nd: +100 MMR
    3rd: +60 MMR
    4th: +20 MMR
    5th: -20 MMR
    6th: -60 MMR
    7th: -100 MMR
    8th: -140 MMR
    (these are just example numbers and don't quite reflect the real ones)

    But as I mentioned earlier: Your MMR gain / loss is modified if you had to play in a Battleground of a higher league than your own. In this case again, it only depends if the whole league is different; MMR as a value is not considered for this "underdog bonus".

    Additionally, MMR is capped, so it can never go below 0 and it can never go above a certain point. So no guild can "hoard" MMR to eventually become unbeatable.

    We were thinking back and forth if MMR should be shown in-game. But it's quite technical and it may bloat the UI and how we have to display information. And our goal for this feature was to make it as accessible and sleek as possible!
    But for sure we can continue to think about other ways to make league progression more tangible / visible. :)
  11. kaymedic

    kaymedic Chief Warrant Officer

    Nov 6, 2018
    Two Questions: So it will not matter if a battleground was very close (eg 4 guilds were competing very closly for 3rd rank) it will always be a fixed amount of MMR you lose?

    How can a guild with a lot of MMR be unbeatable? Or you mean they will not drop in league if they win the next half year and do nothing after that.

    LASTWARRIOR1955 Major

    Sep 17, 2014
    we dont need mmr just guild participation
  13. beelzebob666

    beelzebob666 Lieutenant-General

    Oct 19, 2018
    Maybe just do a breakdown on the guild prestige in the guild ranking or at least in the respective guilds overview so we know how much Prestige comes from what source... Even better it would be if we could sort the guilds for their "Prestige from GBG" though
  14. justMDZ

    justMDZ Master Corporal

    Sep 24, 2018
    What's new in the guild register?

    in order to organize ourselves we actually need to know who does and who does not, it would not hurt to know also what he does, but maybe he is asking too much?
  15. chouchouille28

    chouchouille28 Master Corporal

    Dec 9, 2018
    Oh My God !!!

    I would say that at short term it will end the involvement of players

    just for the fun
    it's the MMR

    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  16. beelzebob666

    beelzebob666 Lieutenant-General

    Oct 19, 2018
    So we have to see it more as every league being divided into a couple "sub-leagues" - every battleground being a sub-league in and of itself

    So next GBG will look something like this:

    When doing good you increase the MMR and therefor you go up into a higher sub-league (if you are doing very good, effectively skipping a couple sub-leagues), and if a certain threshold is reached you even go up to the next full league. Same for doing badly and going down...

    As the Rewards are the same for Silver.1 (high effort - lots of tough opponents) and Silver.X (low effort - mainly do-nothings in comparison to Silver.1), I do not feel that to be an adequate reward system. The only additional reward for Silver.1 would be the potential to go up to gold, while Silver.X has to fight not to go down to copper..

    Overall I think it would be better to have the opponents of a Battleground to be randomly drawn. But maybe I am overestimating the difference of activity between the top and the bottom of a league...

    yeah... that was the initial MMR estimate...
    In the next GBG all the place 5 guilds will most probably not participate anymore and your guild will most probably be together in a BG with guilds of closer activity levels.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  17. dontwannaname

    dontwannaname Captain

    Apr 27, 2019
    It might be reasonable to give a little more weight to guild size when calculating the initial MMR for the live servers.
  18. aragon82

    aragon82 Master Corporal

    Aug 5, 2019
    Americano(80 members) was added to our golden-league(see pic) but no chance at all to compete with the others, do you really want this in a stranger form?

    LASTWARRIOR1955 Major

    Sep 17, 2014
    no, let it run and lets see how it goes.
    Emm55 likes this.
  20. Nessie

    Nessie Chief Warrant Officer

    May 5, 2018
    Changes in BGB: one important change is missing! Would be important to see who in the guild is/was active
    nataliafelitsyn likes this.