Feedback [Feedback] GE - Negotiation Game

[DeletedUser4285]

Maybe inno should have just made it like the single player map. Pay some goods and you're good to go.

 

[Andi47]

I would prefer at the very least that the people have the same exact needs in the same encounter (at least there will be a memory factor then )

and that's what the announcement says that will happen. I just reported it as a bug. When the set changes every time, one must be VERY lucky to find the correct combination (in other words, it is almost impossible to do it withoud diamonds!)

 

[DeletedUser2752]

and that's what the announcement says that will happen. I just reported it as a bug. When the set changes every time, one must be VERY lucky to find the correct combination (in other words, it is almost impossible to do it withoud diamonds!)

I interpreted the announcement as if at one encounter you have a choice of Stone, Dye, Iron, Coins, Supplies and the winning combination the 1st time is Dye, Coin, Coin, Supply, Supply. The set of resources the locals want will remain the same (Stone, Dye, Iron, Coins, Supplies), but the who wants what is randomly changed based off of the set of resources (so any combination of Stone, Dye, Iron, Coins, Supplies). If it's actually what I wanted, then then hopefully it is just a bug right now

 

[Andi47]

I interpreted the announcement as if at one encounter you have a choice of Stone, Dye, Iron, Coins, Supplies and the winning combination the 1st time is Dye, Coin, Coin, Supply, Supply. The set of resources the locals want will remain the same (Stone, Dye, Iron, Coins, Supplies), but the who wants what is randomly changed based off of the set of resources (so any combination of Stone, Dye, Iron, Coins, Supplies). If it's actually what I wanted, then then hopefully it is just a bug right now

In your example, they should want any combination of supply, coin, dye, but not e.g. stone in 2nd try. Otherwise it would be next to impossible to win the game without diamonds.

 

[DeletedUser7477]

CASINO CASINO CASINO

 

[Andi47]

CASINO CASINO CASINO

I agree - so if this is implemented to live in this way, FoE would no longer be a Freemium game, because this feature (which is not an event, but rather a permanent feature) can not*) be won without using premium currency (diamonds).

*) I have not calculated the chance to have a riddle which is solvable within 3 turns for EVERY station, but when concatenating lots of chances in the range of 1:100(?**)) up to 850, I guess that the chance to be able to win everything without using diamonds would be around 1 in several millions.

**) Can anyone please point me out how I can calculate the propability that a certain negotiation with n different ressources for choice can be won by pure logic without diamonds? (I guess this is dependent on the outcome of the first of the three turns, when using optimum strategy)

 

[DeletedUser]

I had following situation when selecting 4 things
4 of 5 correct in the first turn and 1 wrong: looks good. doesn't it
so one to find. but I still messed it up and choosed 2 times the wrong thing
(ok for 4 things 4 turns would be an always solvable riddle and 3 is the correct amount of tries here)

I suggest that they change the amount of free tries
we need at least 5 tries to have a chance to solve the one with 7 (or maybe even 6)

or add some for medals and only the final easy turn would cost diamonds
final turn = the one that always win (turn x when having x things)

@the CM (or the developers)
I bet you can't do level 3 with negotiation only without using diamonds
but maybe you prove me wrong

 

[DeletedUser5097]

CASINO CASINO CASINO

I agree to, it's a new casino game, like the Summer event casino, but now a casino
that's every week open.

I agree - so if this is implemented to live in this way, FoE would no longer be a Freemium game, because this feature (which is not an event, but rather a permanent feature) can not*) be won without using premium currency (diamonds).

*) I have not calculated the chance to have a riddle which is solvable within 3 turns for EVERY station, but when concatenating lots of chances in the range of 1:100(?**)) up to 850, I guess that the chance to be able to win everything without using diamonds would be around 1 in several millions.

**) Can anyone please point me out how I can calculate the propability that a certain negotiation with n different ressources for choice can be won by pure logic without diamonds? (I guess this is dependent on the outcome of the first of the three turns, when using optimum strategy)

I agree to, Innogames makes games that supose for free gameplay. With this casino game
and low change to be victorius, you can't play this part of the game for free, if there is
no little option for more tries without diamonds. It should to be similar another parts of
the game. Like the (coin) expentions, the option to buy more fp's and more attemps for
GE. A option to buy it with another currencies than diamonds.
I know it need to be a challens, but it's still a challens if you can buy it with medals. The costs
can in medals for more tries can rise similar the attemps. So diamond players can us diamonds
and free players can us the medals.

I had following situation when selecting 4 things
4 of 5 correct in the first turn and 1 wrong: looks good. doesn't it
so one to find. but I still messed it up and choosed 2 times the wrong thing
(ok for 4 things 4 turns would be an always solvable riddle and 3 is the correct amount of tries here)

I suggest that they change the amount of free tries
we need at least 5 tries to have a chance to solve the one with 7 (or maybe even 6)

or add some for medals and only the final easy turn would cost diamonds
final turn = the one that always win (turn x when having x things)

@the CM (or the developers)
I bet you can't do level 3 with negotiation only without using diamonds
but maybe you prove me wrong

That's a good suggestion. How lower the cange of success, how more tries are aible.

I think Inno has now good suggestions of us all:
- More tries if the change of success is low(er)
- Option to buy more tries for medals (it will rise for every time that you buy it with medals)

I has test the options. The wanted resources are random. In the first round I tried it
with coins, no one wants coins. I give it up and tried it later, but without coins. One
of them wants coins and not every one how wanted suplies before wated suplies,
when I tried it again in the same encounter.

Note: My Englisch is not perfect and I think I has made some mistakes, but I hope it's possible to understand what I said.

 

[thephantom]

Heya,

Byeordie is correct regarding the announcement part - the 'wanted' resources referred to the initial set of resources (so if they're 8, then those 8). I've modified it for clarity.

Thank you all for the suggestions and feedback btw. Can't say what would or wouldn't get accepted, but all will be passed along.

@the CM (or the developers)
I bet you can't do level 3 with negotiation only without using diamonds
but maybe you prove me wrong

I did Doesn't really say a lot, as when multiple resources are involved there's quite a bit of luck involved with the resource selection.

 

[Andi47]

I did Doesn't really say a lot, as when multiple resources are involved there's quite a bit of luck involved with the resource selection.

A bit of luck? With your luck you should play the lottery!

What is your strategy to narrow down what the locals want, before you run out of turns? Or did you spend 100k medals to buy more attempts?

 

[DeletedUser1462]

This is most stupid update to game ever. I just tried to open negotiate window on level 2 and realized that I can offer them 8 different things. SO my chances that I hit it right is 1:32768
And if I miss I can buy additional tries for diamonds, and after thousands of tries I get possibility to get reward of 10 diamonds! Very good Inno!

I forgot, even worse. Player needs to spend hundreds of goods for attempts, along diamonds and as reward he maybe get 10 goods or 10 diamonds.

 

[podkap1970]

this is the last fight in the 3rd level to negotiate, in arctic future
good luck in that

 

[thephantom]

A bit of luck? With your luck you should play the lottery!

What is your strategy to narrow down what the locals want, before you run out of turns? Or did you spend 100k medals to buy more attempts?

Not sure what the number of attempts has to do with it - as already pointed out the resources reset. Please do not misread what I've written, I did not say this is easy to be done or it can be done at will, I only said I've done it as response to BetaTest's comment. This is precisely why I said completing a negotiation at lvl3 doesn't say a lot since with that number of resources luck plays a factor. But hey, I managed to do it in 2 turns with 8 resources so I'll definitely be giving the lottery a go. Wish me luck.

Spoiler

As already pointed out in the announcement the balancing of the feature is still subject to change. The whole idea of releasing it earlier on Beta is to iron out any potential bugs and to improve the balancing if possible. I cannot say what changes, if any, will be done, so as of right now we can only wait and see.

To touch on another topic - I see comments that this is far too expensive goods-wise. Are you seeing this on the fact that it takes multiple attempts to solve encounters with the negotiation game (so technically adjustments to the mini game itself to make it easier would also resolve this) or just high costs in general? Because spending a few dozen goods per encounter imo is far far cheaper than whatever the simple "negotiation cost" would have been if this was done like on the continent map.

Advanced 2-wave battles were bound to have cost a few hundred goods per encounter - and yet the prizes would have still remained the same because the rewards are the same no matter if you fight or negotiate.

 

[DeletedUser]

I only said I've done it as response to BetaTest's comment. This is precisely why I said completing a negotiation at lvl3

sorry that I wasn't precisely enough

@the CM (or the developers)
I bet you can't do level 3 with negotiation only without using diamonds
but maybe you prove me wrong

what I wanted to say: do the complete level 3 with negotiation only
not one negotiation

this is the last fight in the 3rd level to negotiate, in arctic future
good luck in that

I already fail with 7

but that brings me an idea:
the next GB gives free turns for negotation
each level gives 1 free turn per day.
at level 10 you have 10 turns extra which can be used all at one negotiation or on more

 

[DeletedUser7447]

So in the end it looks like Byeordie is wrong with "I interpreted the announcement as if at one encounter you have a choice of Stone, Dye, Iron, Coins, Supplies and the winning combination the 1st time is Dye, Coin, Coin, Supply, Supply. The set of resources the locals want will remain the same (Stone, Dye, Iron, Coins, Supplies), but the who wants what is randomly changed based off of the set of resources (so any combination of Stone, Dye, Iron, Coins, Supplies)."
The announcement now simply says "resources will be reset" and Dark Star said "as already pointed out the resources reset" (btw, it was not really pointed out, your reply on Byeordie was a little bit close to confusing )
In clear words, having the possible resources "Stone, Dye, Iron, Coins, Supplies" does not at all mean having them again in a 2nd try (a new negotiation with the same encounter).
This really makes it to a Casino game with a high chance to loose. Esp. in the third stage.
Thank God that for the fighting option the armys don't change the same way which would prevent to better plan a 2nd try )

 

[thephantom]

sorry that I wasn't precisely enough


what I wanted to say: do the complete level 3 with negotiation only
not one negotiation

Sorry, I've misread it.

ETA:

So in the end it looks like Byeordie is wrong

What byeordie pointed out is correct. If in one encounter you can select 5 different resources, and it turns out the winning combination only includes 3, with the next attempt the winning combination can include any of the 5 (not just the 3 which were 'correct' in the previous attempt).

 

[Andi47]

Sorry, I've misread it.

And that's why I said "100k medals to buy attempts":
* winning one 3rd stage negotiation in only two turns is *very* lucky. earlier in this thread calculated a 1 in 850 chance to win a stage 3 negotiation in 3 turns. If this number is correct (can anyone please point out, how to calculate it?), multiplying this with the 16 encounters in stage 3, this would give a (1 in 850)^16 = 1 in 70 Tredecillions chance. In other words, this is impossible. (oh, well, fill the universe with FoE players, maybe in the next few millennia one will win...)

 

[DeletedUser2752]

Well, I finished all 3 levels with only negotiation (though I did use diamonds). My stats:
- 260 diamonds spent
- 60 diamonds gained
- 12 attempts bought (though I clearly didn't need them considering I still have a few days to go)
- 422 FE goods spent
- 624 AF goods spent
- 75 FE goods gained
- 95 AF goods gained
*Last encounter costed over 150 goods and guess what my prize was? 50 goods

I think at best I can shave off a few diamonds, but this would be at the expense of even more goods (and I think I was having a lucky week as well; hell, I finished the last encounter in 6 or 7 attempts). When fighting, I don't even lose double the units I gain (maybe even less than the units I gain), and this one is more than 5 times!, so I would also advise a great increase in the good rewards or make the minigame easier (which in turn should cost less goods).
Also a small change I would also like to see: the expedition points you get for failing at negotiating is waaay lower than losing a fight at the moment. Would like to see an increase there as well.

 

[DeletedUser4285]

I'm so glad i dont bother with negotiations
The stuff i read in the past few posts makes it look complicated. What's worse is players that prefer negotiation over fighting aren't gonna enjoy it at all if they find themselves getting ripped off more than what they get.
At least with fighting we dont have to worry about losing some units so long they are unattached and we have high level alcatraz. Add in the high boosts from the trio GBs and we are always good to go.
With negotiation there might be alot of goods to use for the sectors in the continent map but it is a guaranteed thing to gain control over them, whereas in GE you are gambling your goods so you either get lucky with very little goods used or you end up using tons and tons of goods before you get there.

 

[DeletedUser]

Chances to solve an encounter in 3 turns with optimal strategy:
2 things to offer - 100%
3 things - 100%
4 things - 93.2%
5 things - 78.2%
6 things - 54.7%
7 things - 32.6%
8 things - 18.8%
9 things - 10.7%