Feedback Daily Challenges

[qaccy]

I don't think alternatives to tasks are suitable for DCs. There's already an exhaustive list of tasks, and attaching alternatives to them just doesn't seem necessary when you're unlikely to see the same task more than once a week anyway. By now, players should have been able to adapt to the tasks DCs require if they're interested in completing them, but it still sounds like some essentially want the rewards handed to them for no effort each day rather than changing how they play. If, after 5 months on beta or a month on live, you still have trouble completing production quests for example, that sounds more like you're being stubborn than DCs having 'unfair' requirements. I built 6 Boatyards and 8 Cider Mills for the sake of completing production quests, and since they're not otherwise useless like blacksmiths are I don't feel the need to complain about being 'forced' to use them. Why aren't more people doing what I'm doing?

Yet, despite my rant above about production quests, I can't help but invalidate all of it by saying I'm sympathetic to the non-fighters being locked out of a lot of DCs by all the battle requirements. But although that choice is actually one not made lightly, I nonetheless think there should still be a penalty for failing to complete a DC that you've already begun by choosing a reward and I'm not really sure how or even if it's possible for the game to 'see' whether or not you're someone who avoids the battle system.

GE attempts are consumed as soon as you enter battle or begin negotiating, regardless of whether you win or lose, but there's no cost if you don't initiate the encounter. To me, that draws a good parallel to how the DC penalty could best be changed - if you do nothing, no penalty. If you initiate the challenge (picking a reward), there's a penalty for failing.

 

[xivarmy]

regarding the production quests (again) qaccy and peoples complaints with them:

your 8 cider mills aren't something available to everyone on a moment's notice - but would be a reasonable alternative to blacksmiths to people who have them - some may still feel saving 16 squares more advantageous than extra supplies even if you don't.
your 6 boatyards while you don't feel are a waste of space on their own do not necessarily mesh with others playstyles - supply needs vary widely from player to player depending on what they do with their game

That said i don't actually disagree with the premise that people should be willing to adapt if they feel challenges are worthwhile (though allocating space for blacksmiths could very well be the best adaptation for people who don't need the supplies). The 3 worlds i quasicare about :

1) Oceanic Future, had only 2 terrace farms in service - didn't really do challenges for a while, deleted some SoKs to make room for 12 crystal flower shops when an event came along i wanted to do (Forge Bowl) and will keep them for daily challenges - still don't actually do challenges every day though, mostly interested in extra pieces to the good sets not the challenger chest. Since none of the OF supply buildings are sufficiently small for my taste when it comes to allocating a bit of space to fulfill event/challenge requirements I probably should watch out for beach bars, cider mills, witch doctors, or fan shops in coming events so that i'm ready for the next age after Oceanic Future part 25. Perhaps a 2x2 blacksmith-alternative supply building would make a good event building in some future event since it's seeming more like keeping some small supply buildings should be a near constant thing now between neverending events and daily challenges instead of something you clear space and build when an event comes along? Friends with dynamic towers often get irritated when you have blacksmiths and they catch one

2) Late Middle Age and advancing on a newish server - I do the challenges every day and as a developing city have no shortage of supply buildings. There's nothing I haven't been able to do and while many are an inconvenience making my city less efficient (running 3 useless boosts in the tavern sequentially instead of the one good boost i want for the day, or running cycles on my production buildings that are less than ideal because they're eating my LoA charges too quick), the weekly challenger chests are worth what i'm giving up in general - and sometimes the daily chests are nice.

3) Permanent Iron Age server - I do the challenges when they have something potentially useful in the future and don't require anything that would force me to advance more than i want to on the map. I can use my terrace farms and a few supply buildings i have still to complete the challenges if needed - they haven't been a problem yet. After a recent reorg i have space for a few blacksmiths i might add if the supply productions become a block at some point.

While losing the -1 would appeal to me on two of the servers where i don't challenge every day I don't really find it necessary. If challenges were that important to me I'd find a way to do them. The suggestion of no penalty on not picking a chest would also mostly meet the same effect (difference would be if given two blah chests instead of picking one and seeing if the conditions were easy i'd just skip the day without viewing the conditions - not sure which developers consider more desirable).

 

[DeletedUser8277]

How in the world is 100% chance of 60,000 coins (XL coin package in INA) worth 75,000 supplies and 65 INA goods? Let alone the 3 other tasks I have to do along with paying at least 400 tavern silver on nothing.

I really think something needs to be looked at in terms of the requirements and these rewards.


This is another reason why removing the -1 would be a good idea.

 

[qaccy]

your 8 cider mills aren't something available to everyone on a moment's notice - but would be a reasonable alternative to blacksmiths to people who have them - some may still feel saving 16 squares more advantageous than extra supplies even if you don't.
your 6 boatyards while you don't feel are a waste of space on their own do not necessarily mesh with others playstyles - supply needs vary widely from player to player depending on what they do with their game

That said i don't actually disagree with the premise that people should be willing to adapt if they feel challenges are worthwhile (though allocating space for blacksmiths could very well be the best adaptation for people who don't need the supplies).

While true about the cider mills, as you mentioned further down in your post you use crystal flower stores, which are the same size (albeit rotated) and still leagues better for production than blacksmiths are. I personally don't want to have 'dead' space in my city, and that's what blacksmiths are in later ages - dead space. Simply completing quest objectives isn't enough for me; I want the buildings to have a use outside of that as well. Unfortunately for me, I don't really have a good leg to stand on here in OF as the three 24-hour production quests heavily incentivize building a bunch of blacksmiths already, and this one scenario provides a much better return than having higher supply production to feed into more Unbirthdays.

I guess what it boils down to for me is the people simultaneously using blacksmiths for the sake of more easily completing DCs and also complaining about doing it. What are these people looking for, exactly? This question is kind of rhetorical, as it's not too hard to guess the answer.

 

[Andi47]

While true about the cider mills, as you mentioned further down in your post you use crystal flower stores, which are the same size (albeit rotated) and still leagues better for production than blacksmiths are. I personally don't want to have 'dead' space in my city, and that's what blacksmiths are in later ages - dead space. Simply completing quest objectives isn't enough for me; I want the buildings to have a use outside of that as well. Unfortunately for me, I don't really have a good leg to stand on here in OF as the three 24-hour production quests heavily incentivize building a bunch of blacksmiths already, and this one scenario provides a much better return than having higher supply production to feed into more Unbirthdays.

I guess what it boils down to for me is the people simultaneously using blacksmiths for the sake of more easily completing DCs and also complaining about doing it. What are these people looking for, exactly? This question is kind of rhetorical, as it's not too hard to guess the answer.

With DCs one can get useful items such as Store Building and Renovation items, shrines, set buildings which have been missed in the events, and such. I guess this is the main reason why people do DCs (and build a big bunch of Blacksmiths for the sake of not loosing progress)

 

[DeletedUser4381]

I had a look at your account to check to make sure there isn't a bug. Luckily, you do have open sectors. The sectors are opened when the scout completes, not when you first visit the map again after the scout completes. Maybe that's where the confusion came from - that with quests the condition for scouting something doesn't register as complete until you've seen the map.

It's a weird situation generally. We should probably take a look at clarifying that at some point.

I hope by clarify you mean fix one way or the other. Having two different definitions of finishing a scout confuses new players especially. Personally I suspect most people would prefer both to detect when the scout is revealed by checking the map not when it completes but we are not aware it has yet finished.

Agreed. The province should not be available as scouted until the map view has been opened *after* the scout has reached it.

 

[DeletedUser730]

Visit X taverns.

I got the daily quest about 8 hours before the deadline and I had already visited most of my friends' taverns. Needless to say this quest was impossible.

The quest itself is good, it's doable, but as long as that "X taverns" is actually attainable.

 

[DeletedUser]

accept it earlier

because it was your fault that you visited the taverns before accepting the DC

because actually it was attainable when you visited the taverns of your friends

 

[qaccy]

With DCs one can get useful items such as Store Building and Renovation items, shrines, set buildings which have been missed in the events, and such. I guess this is the main reason why people do DCs (and build a big bunch of Blacksmiths for the sake of not loosing progress)

But the other half of my question still remains: Why are people complaining about being 'forced' to use blacksmiths? Certainly, DC rewards must be worth using them or they wouldn't be, right? So what might the problem be?

@edu2004eu Sounds like you may benefit from adjusting the time at which a new DC becomes available for you. Hopefully you have a good enough idea of your schedule to be able to give yourself at least 22 or 23 hours to complete it.

 

[SirSmithy]

@edu2004eu Sounds like you may benefit from adjusting the time at which a new DC becomes available for you. Hopefully you have a good enough idea of your schedule to be able to give yourself at least 22 or 23 hours to complete it.

You mean 22-23 hours - sleeping hours, right? You will never have 22-23 hours time for tha dailies.

 

[qaccy]

You mean 22-23 hours - sleeping hours, right? You will never have 22-23 hours time for tha dailies.

Why not? Most objectives don't take that long, but you want to give yourself that much time in case of situations like the above (where you have to wait for the tavern timer to refresh), or for production quests, both of which can occur while you're offline. Having nearly the full available time certainly makes a huge difference versus only 8 hours.

 

[xivarmy]

While not directly related to daily challenges, they sortof do bring it up - with the condition 'donate X resources of your age or the age below to treasury' OF players tend to be essentially pissing goods into a void as the treasury is never going to need more AF or OF goods. Is there a plan to give a more scalable use for AF/OF treasury goods that high level guilds have too many of so that that condition feels a little less like destroying goods for the heck of it?

 

[Ylisaveta]

I think keeping the challenges that some people think difficult or "impossible" is ok, because not everyone feels the same way. I don't mind the happiness or pop challenges or the pay challenges. I roll my eyes at some of the production challenges but can usually do them. The DC's I skip are any requiring negotiation of any kind or progress on the cmap. I think the better solution is simply to take away the -1 for not doing a DC, as some have already suggested.

 

[FrejaSP]

how about some new conditions ?
- collect 10 incidents
- get 3 friends (for people with less than 77 friends)
- accept 10 trades from people of your guild
...

I like the first 2, but 10 trades, even if you include the neighbourhood may be impossible for many in small guilds or with less guild members in their age +-1

 

[FrejaSP]

ell the skip of -1 for not completing a challenge would be nice, yes. But perhaps that would make achieving the goal of the seventh chest, the challenger's chest a bit to easy? Perhaps there should be a compromise, you can make a choice. Either you keep it as it is now with -1 for not completing, but getting the chest after 7 in a row. Or you choose to get the chest only after 10 in a row, but without the penalty of -1 for not completing. Of course you can make the choice only if you have 0 points counting and no chest choosen.

I like it the way it is, if you fail 3, you will have to finish 10 chest before you get your reward, yes you will have to try 13 days but that is not bad.
One changes I would like, if it not already work that way is, i you a day skip choosing a challenge, maybe because you do not want the rewards, it will not count as -1, only if you start the challenge and fail.

 

[Cardena]

I like the first 2, but 10 trades, even if you include the neighbourhood may be impossible for many in small guilds or with less guild members in their age +-1

To accept 10 trades is very, very easy. You just have to be a bit social, be able to ask a guild member to put up trades like 1 of good A for 1 of good B and 1 of good B for 1 of good A and both for 5 times, than accept, challenge done. Where is there any problem to that?

 

[DeletedUser8404]

On the topic of removing the -1, I think that's one possible way to go. That would allow people of all play styles to eventually complete +7, it may just take a bit longer for them. Assuming that's the goal, a few other possibilities come to mind:

• Change the number of tasks to be completed from Complete ALL tasks to Complete X/Y tasks (e.g., assign 6 tasks, but only require 4 to complete the challenge). This allows non-combatants to avoid combat tasks, those with few supplies buildings to avoid those tasks, etc. If desired, tasks could even be generated categorically (e.g., 1-3 combat tasks, 1-2 goods tasks, 0-1 continent map tasks, etc.) in such a way that most days, someone of a specific play-style would be able to complete, but maybe not all days. I like this idea the best because it adds a layer of strategy to DCs that it currently doesn't have.
• Allow alternatives for some tasks, as mentioned above.
• Present different completion requirements for each chest before a chest is selected.
• Allow categorical opt-outs...perhaps only a single one, so you can opt out of all combat tasks or all supplies tasks or all goods tasks, etc.
• Combining my previous suggestion with something earlier in the thread, allow people to pick a specific "stream" of DCs to play (maybe in their settings menu?), each of which focuses on specific tasks types, and where the requirements to finish the full DC for each might be different. So, perhaps a stream of mostly combat quests requires 5 challenges to complete, but you lose 1 if you fail a challenge; one that focuses on production might not be as "challenging" so maybe it takes 10 challenges to complete but no -1; another might focus mostly on goods production; etc. This is obviously a much bigger code change, which is why I present it last, cuz I think it's the least likely to be implemented.

Another thing that occurred to me is that for some non-combatants, they just don't like the combat; for others, it's a bit more moralistically based, so if it's possible, perhaps you could add a challenge to "defeat a neighbour without plundering them". The only way I can see to do that would be to add the option to specifically deny yourself plundering after defeating someone. That might be an interesting addition to the game, with or without the task, actually. A lot of people are just beating up neighbours for the tower points, so it could provide a guaranteed reassurance to the person you attack that you won't be plundering them. Might be too complex, though. I dunno.

 

[DeletedUser8404]

To accept 10 trades is very, very easy. You just have to be a bit social, be able to ask a guild member to put up trades like 1 of good A for 1 of good B and 1 of good B for 1 of good A and both for 5 times, than accept, challenge done. Where is there any problem to that?

In a guild of one, that might be a bit of a challenge.

 

[FrejaSP]

To accept 10 trades is very, very easy. You just have to be a bit social, be able to ask a guild member to put up trades like 1 of good A for 1 of good B and 1 of good B for 1 of good A and both for 5 times, than accept, challenge done. Where is there any problem to that?

Sure is a problem, it is plain stupid and do not make more sense than having to use blacksmiths to finish an x times produktion and it will fill the markedsplads with foolish trades noone need.

 

[DeletedUser]

all DC tasks are plain stupid

donate 1500 goods into treasury
spend 1500 tavern silver
activate 3 boosts
get 5 sectors on map (with goods even more)
do 4 GE encounters with negotiation (without losing)
defeat 20 units (after GE and world map is done. I must attack neighbors)
and so on

accepting trades CAN help other (if you take real offers)
those stupid things help noone