Feedback Fall Event 2022

[CrashBoom]

it also depends on the recipes you get at the end
not every ends at: 0 0 0 0 0

 

[Emberguard]

it also depends on the recipes you get at the end
not every ends at: 0 0 0 0 0

You're right, and that'll be the hardest part.

Giving it some more thought, you'd probably need to all agree on the amount without including anything obtained via incidents. Then the incident currency would only be there to allow players to hit the right recipes to get the exact number (and hope they don't get a 3 star recipe when they need a 2 star or something)

It'd certainly be a challenge to pull off en-mass. Especially as it'll only work if there's enough players sticking to such an agreement, but it'd be the only way of increasing the amount of players getting the final upgrade from the 20% without relying 100% on luck

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Do keep in mind if the game requires the Apprentice League Reward to get the building fully upgraded, then that's only 20% of the playerbase who achieve the building.

I understand and agree that only 20% of the playerbase got the Apprentice League Reward. I was just reporting my results. Clearly, the Event was different from ones I've played before in that the League reward was necessary to get the fully levelled building without spending diamonds.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Something else came to mind. Only 20% of the playerbase for the Apprentice League Reward. I wonder what percentage of players that really tried to get the full building actually succeeded? Considering the number of inactive and casual players, 20% of the playerbase could be 100% of the players that really made the effort - which would be great. Probably not 100% though.

 

[DEADP00L]

By being connected every day and by completing the daily challenges, we obtained 185 ingredients. (187 with newsletter)
On the FR worlds, the Novice league allowing to win an additional kit started between 173 and 186 stars.
So it only took one incident to not be part of the 50% of players who won't win a kit in league rewards.

I therefore find inno's calculation fair, very fair, but sufficient.

Especially since among the complainers, the majority did not log in every day, thus losing 4 ingredients (the 2 dailies and the 2 from the challenges). So we have to stop taking the other players for fools or lucky people with the incidents.

 

[Emberguard]

Probably not 100% though.

Definitely not. I tried. Even used the event email currency. Still short by 3 ingredients including anything leftover from not having a recipe to use them on. But that's the nature of random.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Definitely not. I tried. Even used the event email currency. Still short by 3 ingredients including anything leftover from not having a recipe to use them on. But that's the nature of random.

I'm hoping that the combination of it being a shortened event and the first one since the surprise boxes were eliminated threw INNO off when they did the event currency math. From what I've heard, getting the full building in the Beta Halloween Event was not a problem. Fingers crossed when Halloween starts on live.

 

[drakenridder]

I find the requirement of being part of the top20% of an event worse then the semi-requirement to participate up to a certain point during the former event to obtain the event box for getting a fully levelled building.

Top20% is luck dependant
Vs
Obtaining event box from former event is a certainty, assuming you've managed it

Imho it would've been better if both options would remain to exist: obtain the event box during an event to be sure you'll get a fully upgraded grand prize next event, if you'll complete all event quests of the next event and obtain the other upgrades through its minigame. Or choose not to bother and gamble that you'll end up in the top20% of your world during the next event's minigame.
This way the box is optional and not a requirement perse, over the requirement that you need to be lucky enough to not run into bad luck and thus not being able to reach the top20% without spending diamonds. This way if you're really active and spend diamonds you'll efforts will be rewarded in a potentially cheaper 2nd grand prize, on the other hand any active player gets rewarded for their efforts for the previous event by getting guaranteed a grand prize by choice, rather then gambling to not getting unlucky enough to not ending in top20%.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Imho, when we had both the surprise box and the chance of a league reward getting the fully levelled building was too easy. I login daily and almost always ended up with a full building plus an extra kit. I think that INNO should design the event currency payout such that active players (meaning daily login) can get the fully levelled building without needing to depend on a League reward. It's a player decision to be less active so these players should need to spend diamonds if they want the full building. Players that want more than one building can spend diamonds to their heart's content.

 

[xivarmy]

All our worlds are coming to the finish line with 190 stars (+-) in the Apprentice League. You can get 185 stars In total (with DC) . If you didn't collect incidents, or you were unlucky with them, then you won't get the last level of building.

Most of ours ended on ~186. The new world on ~178. 190 seemed within the player's control - the world where I cared (the new one), I hit 200 for free (also bought 60, but ended on 260). It seems pretty unthinkable that you'd wind up with zero the whole event from incidents.

But yes, there's no doubt there's some people who wanted it didn't finish it - one underdeveloped offworld I had the thought "oh it'd be nice to finish that" - but wasn't so dilligent about incidents and probably missed a few daily challenges and came up a bit short.

 

[xivarmy]

I find the requirement of being part of the top20% of an event worse then the semi-requirement to participate up to a certain point during the former event to obtain the event box for getting a fully levelled building.

Top20% is luck dependant
Vs
Obtaining event box from former event is a certainty, assuming you've managed it

Imho it would've been better if both options would remain to exist: obtain the event box during an event to be sure you'll get a fully upgraded grand prize next event, if you'll complete all event quests of the next event and obtain the other upgrades through its minigame. Or choose not to bother and gamble that you'll end up in the top20% of your world during the next event's minigame.
This way the box is optional and not a requirement perse, over the requirement that you need to be lucky enough to not run into bad luck and thus not being able to reach the top20% without spending diamonds. This way if you're really active and spend diamonds you'll efforts will be rewarded in a potentially cheaper 2nd grand prize, on the other hand any active player gets rewarded for their efforts for the previous event by getting guaranteed a grand prize by choice, rather then gambling to not getting unlucky enough to not ending in top20%.

Thing is we don't know how they'd have chose to balance it with the event box - it's perfectly possible with the event box that *both* the box and top 20% would be necessary - some events have always just been balanced tougher. i.e. what if the event box was still there but they gave us 20 less ingredients such that hitting 180 wasn't entirely likely (but plausible with good incident luck AND doing everything) - now the minimum bar is top 20% AND event box from previous event.

 

[drakenridder]

Thing is we don't know how they'd have chose to balance it with the event box - it's perfectly possible with the event box that *both* the box and top 20% would be necessary - some events have always just been balanced tougher. i.e. what if the event box was still there but they gave us 20 less ingredients such that hitting 180 wasn't entirely likely (but plausible with good incident luck AND doing everything) - now the minimum bar is top 20% AND event box from previous event.

Prior to the event box, it was always possible to obtain a fully levelled main event building. When the event box was present, players just needed the box and you could get the main building fully levelled. The exception was Halloween and archaeology (the letter I’m not 100% sure of though due to lacklustre rewards), players had to complete the callander. With the past fall event, it was crystal clear that only top20% was able to obtain the fully levelled building. Unless there was an event box present in the summer event for this fall event. Which would’ve made achieving top20% an alternative way to reaching the fully levelled building. If someone didn’t get the event box for any reason.
As stated by Inno themselves, they removed the requirement of the event box for a fully levelled event building by simple removing the box. Resulting into a poor “balance” dependant on luck. As a direct result, some unlucky players couldn’t manage to complete this fall’s main event building, as it’s been locked away behind top20% requirement. Which is just plain luck based for having the right random ingredients from daily challenges and getting the right ones from incidents and getting the right bake thingies offered to exchange those gathered ingredients or being stuck with a bunch of ingredients they could not spend and thus not reaching the top20%.
IMHO it would be many times better for the balance, if reaching top20% is an alternative over being active enough in the former event to obtain an event box. Resulting into a situation where those who decided to go after the event box, would be rewarded by the certainty that they could complete the main event building next event by completing all the event quests and participating enough in the minigame, regardless of their global ranking. Also for the active diamond spenders, the additional reward of such would be a potentially slightly cheaper 2nd grand prize. Making it ever so slightly more appealing for them to go for. While still offering those who’ve chosen not to bother with the previous event, to have a chance of obtaining the fully levelled building by gambling that they’ll end up in the top20% of the followup event.
All of this been said. I think for balancing the fall event Inno has 2 good options;

1.) Reintroduce event boxes but keeping the top20% alternative for a fully levelled building
2.) Figure out how the fall event was balanced prior to the event boxes and apply this balance to future fall events. E.G. main event building with X levels and a duration of Y weeks and Z ingredients.

In conclusion I’m sure that with the event box the top20% wouldn’t be a requirement but an option. This event was very clearly balanced poorly and hot “fixed” by increasing the ingredients from quests and the top20%.
A balance where you’re require to be on topX% rather feels penalising anyone who is unfortunate enough to play in an active world (making it harder to be in the required topX%) and/or being unlucky enough to not getting the sufficient amount of event currency to obtain the event building fully levelled.

 

[DEADP00L]

At first the event box was only a bonus which did not penalize players absent from the previous event and rewarded regular players who were "unlucky" in the next event.
The mistake was for Inno to include this additional kit in the calculations for obtaining a special building.
Which was a double jeopardy for those who were absent at the previous event.
They would just have to give the box back as a gift WITHOUT taking this kit into account in the calculation for obtaining the next special building.

 

[Emberguard]

The exception was Halloween and archaeology (the letter I’m not 100% sure of though due to lacklustre rewards), players had to complete the callander.

Funnily enough I have never gone for the calendar on any Event, and from what I remember I've always been able to complete Halloween and Archeology buildings just going for the Grand Prizes. But that doesn't necessarily mean it'd be a easier path than going for the calendar, there is a lot of room in Halloween / Archeology to potentially get things wrong or use the tools inefficiently.

 

[xivarmy]

Prior to the event box, it was always possible to obtain a fully levelled main event building. When the event box was present, players just needed the box and you could get the main building fully levelled. The exception was Halloween and archaeology (the letter I’m not 100% sure of though due to lacklustre rewards), players had to complete the callander. With the past fall event, it was crystal clear that only top20% was able to obtain the fully levelled building. Unless there was an event box present in the summer event for this fall event. Which would’ve made achieving top20% an alternative way to reaching the fully levelled building. If someone didn’t get the event box for any reason.
As stated by Inno themselves, they removed the requirement of the event box for a fully levelled event building by simple removing the box. Resulting into a poor “balance” dependant on luck. As a direct result, some unlucky players couldn’t manage to complete this fall’s main event building, as it’s been locked away behind top20% requirement. Which is just plain luck based for having the right random ingredients from daily challenges and getting the right ones from incidents and getting the right bake thingies offered to exchange those gathered ingredients or being stuck with a bunch of ingredients they could not spend and thus not reaching the top20%.
IMHO it would be many times better for the balance, if reaching top20% is an alternative over being active enough in the former event to obtain an event box. Resulting into a situation where those who decided to go after the event box, would be rewarded by the certainty that they could complete the main event building next event by completing all the event quests and participating enough in the minigame, regardless of their global ranking. Also for the active diamond spenders, the additional reward of such would be a potentially slightly cheaper 2nd grand prize. Making it ever so slightly more appealing for them to go for. While still offering those who’ve chosen not to bother with the previous event, to have a chance of obtaining the fully levelled building by gambling that they’ll end up in the top20% of the followup event.
All of this been said. I think for balancing the fall event Inno has 2 good options;

1.) Reintroduce event boxes but keeping the top20% alternative for a fully levelled building
2.) Figure out how the fall event was balanced prior to the event boxes and apply this balance to future fall events. E.G. main event building with X levels and a duration of Y weeks and Z ingredients.

In conclusion I’m sure that with the event box the top20% wouldn’t be a requirement but an option. This event was very clearly balanced poorly and hot “fixed” by increasing the ingredients from quests and the top20%.
A balance where you’re require to be on topX% rather feels penalising anyone who is unfortunate enough to play in an active world (making it harder to be in the required topX%) and/or being unlucky enough to not getting the sufficient amount of event currency to obtain the event building fully levelled.

They also shrunk the event to 14 days instead of 21. And it would've been straightforward enough for them to add another 40 ingredients if that's what they wanted to do. This isn't some magical problem caused by the missing event box - it was a choice on their part to have it balanced this way, and they very well could've made with the event box also required if it existed. It doesn't mean every event will be balanced this way.

Yes this event was difficult - but you'd have to have been the unluckiest person in the world to do *everything you could* and come up short. Of course *everything* was the literal line in the sand - and that's pretty extreme.

 

[beelzebob666]

In my main world I finished with 200 stars and had 10 ingredients left over that I could not use.

In my newest world (new world opened couple weeks ago) I finished with 196 stars and also had a couple ingredients I could not use left over - I guess I had a lot of luck with incidents on my main.

On both worlds I solved all the DCs. And on both worlds I was about 10 stars ahead of the 20% cut off.

From that I would assume that those that did not make the 20% were those that left out too many DC. Therefore they did not put in enough effort and "do not deserve" the full prize.

Problem is, that if more than 20% of the players would have done all the DC, some players would not get the full prize, allthough they did all they could. Therfore the concept is flawed, but at least in most worlds this was not a problem.

A different problem could be lacking information - although the announcement told the player that ingredients can be won in the DC, it failed to inform that those would be crucial to get the full prize.

 

[Owl II]

Most of ours ended on ~186. The new world on ~178. 190 seemed within the player's control - the world where I cared (the new one), I hit 200 for free (also bought 60, but ended on 260). It seems pretty unthinkable that you'd wind up with zero the whole event from incidents.

But yes, there's no doubt there's some people who wanted it didn't finish it - one underdeveloped offworld I had the thought "oh it'd be nice to finish that" - but wasn't so dilligent about incidents and probably missed a few daily challenges and came up a bit short.

I'm not. I finished this event with 192 stars, and missed several DC. But I have a high online overall, and I only play in one world. Players who enter the game once or twice a day were less lucky. Many players from our training guild were unable to get into the apprentice league and assemble a complete building. That's the irony. Those for whom it would be a good prize did not receive it. But those who don't need it got it

 

[Owl II]

From that I would assume that those that did not make the 20% were those that left out too many DC. Therefore they did not put in enough effort and "do not deserve" the full prize.

No, we discussed this event with our beginners yesterday. The reason is not so much in the DS as in the fact that incidents are included in the calculation. Some guys found only two or three ingredients in the trash. As a rule, those who have low online. And if they haven't been lucky enough to fully spend the ingredients yet, then this is a fiasco. I don't know how fair that is.

 

[drakenridder]

They also shrunk the event to 14 days instead of 21. And it would've been straightforward enough for them to add another 40 ingredients if that's what they wanted to do. This isn't some magical problem caused by the missing event box - it was a choice on their part to have it balanced this way, and they very well could've made with the event box also required if it existed. It doesn't mean every event will be balanced this way.

Yes this event was difficult - but you'd have to have been the unluckiest person in the world to do *everything you could* and come up short. Of course *everything* was the literal line in the sand - and that's pretty extreme.

The reduction of time has definitely compromised the balance, sure. Actually if the event box was still a thing, the top20% would've been purely optional. Which would've been more fair, imo.
I agreed with you that the event is balanced around randomness and luck: daily 2x random ingredients from DC, assuming DC's random requests doesn't pose a roadblock for under developed young cities. Besides that the luck based of incidents: getting any ingredients today or tomorrow? If so, will it be some you can exchange in the minigame? This all together makes the event though to complete when only milestones are required. The top20% is just a plain worse requirement. Adding upon the randomness. Especially the possibility that you might end up with ingredients that you can't use at the end and because of that getting kicked out of the top20%. Which didn't happen with me but I feel this possibility is just plain unfair balance design towards those who've done everything correctly but failed at the last moment for reasons that are not their fault.

As for background I've managed to get the fully levelled building. Still I think @Owl II has made the strongest point: those who could benefit the most of this building likely didn't getting it because of the top20% requirement but those who don't need it that much likely gotten it anyways without much issues.

 

[beelzebob666]

As a rule, those who have low online

To collect all the incidents it is enough to log in once a day (max 24h difference between logins)

If you did not do that, than you simply did not put in enough effort - also, you can not really complete the DC if you log in less than daily.