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Down Kit Yeah

Sl8yer

Regent
Lol here we go again:

1. Okay fair point here, except you misinterpreted my point. "I don't think it would affect the game massively to allow someone the ability to fight in a lower age with champs of that age..." My point was that the game as a whole would not be adversely affected, but in the individual gameplay of INDIVIDUALS it could make a world of difference. For clarification: when I say no impact/minimal impact I am talking about on the gameplay as a whole, not on individual aspects.

So if individual aspects are affected it simply does not count cause everything is about the game as a whole and nothing really affects that.

2. "It would effect them in a bad way. Players should not be allowed to downgrade their bazaar to BA, so it will use less population." No impact here, hence not an argument. (You gotta explain why reduction in population costs would be sooo bad for the game that this idea shouldn't be implemented)

Why should I? You play the game and I assume you can think for yourself, so try to give that a shot. Maybe you can even come to the conclusion that not everything is lol, or has minimal impact.

Edit: NormaJeane - 2016-12-03 - removed a redundant sentence.
 
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DeletedUser7649

Guest
So if individual aspects are affected it simply does not count cause everything is about the game as a whole and nothing really affects that.

Individual aspects always count, but when you are looking at a new suggestion you look at how it will impact the game as a whole FIRST.

Why should I? You play the game and I assume you can think for yourself, so try to give that a shot. Maybe you can even come to the conclusion that not everything is lol, or has minimal impact.
Why should you come up with some impact for your statement? Isn't this self explanatory? Arguments are points of view, backed up with logic and data (I'll also accept hypotheticals). You have the point of view, and no data to prove your logic, so get that and we can start talking about your actual point of view.

Edit: NormaJeane - 2016-12-03 - removed a redundant quote
 
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DeletedUser7239

Guest
Lol here we go again:

1. Okay fair point here, except you misinterpreted my point. "I don't think it would affect the game massively to allow someone the ability to fight in a lower age with champs of that age..." My point was that the game as a whole would not be adversely affected, but in the individual gameplay of INDIVIDUALS it could make a world of difference. For clarification: when I say no impact/minimal impact I am talking about on the gameplay as a whole, not on individual aspects.

2. "It would effect them in a bad way. Players should not be allowed to downgrade their bazaar to BA, so it will use less population." No impact here, hence not an argument. (You gotta explain why reduction in population costs would be sooo bad for the game that this idea shouldn't be implemented)

You are wrong.
This downgrade(some felow did sugest something even better then mine), for those who fight, champions are very important.
About bazzar, that was not my main target xD
 

DeletedUser7649

Guest
You are wrong.
This downgrade(some felow did sugest something even better then mine), for those who fight, champions are very important.
About bazzar, that was not my main target xD

Okay how am I wrong, and what about specifically? Need a bit more detail :)
 

DeletedUser7239

Guest
Okay how am I wrong, and what about specifically? Need a bit more detail :)

I explain.
I am on Af(me and alot of players), we want to fight on CE lets say: how do i get CE champions(please do not tell to colect them when i was on that era :/, my city would be full with alot of champions).
So the point of having selectable multi-era champions is good :D
In my opinion.
 

DeletedUser7649

Guest
I explain.
I am on Af(me and alot of players), we want to fight on CE lets say: how do i get CE champions(please do not tell to colect them when i was on that era :/, my city would be full with alot of champions).
So the point of having selectable multi-era champions is good :D
In my opinion.

Yup I agree with your idea to have a downgrade kit entirely, the purpose of my post there was to point out on a game wide scale that having champs of a lower age than current won't be detrimental to gameplay :)
I was actually defending your argument ;)
 

DeletedUser7239

Guest
Oh sorry dude, my apologise, my english sometimes is bad :/ sorry for my mistake :)
 

DeletedUser7649

Guest
Okay two buildings have been brought up:

1. Champion's Retreat:
Fact 1: Champion's Retreats are age dependent.
Fact 2: Champion's Retreats require reno or one up kits to upgrade.
Fact 3: You can fight GvG in any era provided you have troops of that era.
If all three facts are true, then:
Earning a Champion's Retreat, aging up, and NOT using a reno kit/one up kit leaves you with a champion's retreat of the original age.
And:
Players fight in GvG with lower aged Champs than their current age if they have a lower era Retreat.

Impact: Higher level players (CE, PME, etc) fight in lower ages than their current age with Champions, by expanding this range of eras fighting below current, the game as a whole will not be impacted in any detrimental way.

2. Bazaar:
Fact 1: Bazaar increases population cost as it goes up in era.
Fact 2: Citizens become enthusiastic at 140% of the numeric value of population provided in happiness.
Fact 3: Bazaar can be used to produce fps.
If all three facts are true, then:
Using a proposed downgrade kit will reduce population consumption and thereby increase happiness making it easier to achieve an enthusiastic population.
Data: 128 total expansions equates to 2048 total squares, which at maximum would be less than 100 bazaars maximum. (I really don't feel like taking the time to actually make a full map of the max possible with roads and such). That 100 is without any population buildings, when you factor in population buildings the number is probably closer to 97 or fewer, so we will work under that assumption.

Note: 97 would be the max amount with two AF pop buildings and all 97 Bazaars at BA population consumption amounts.
BA Bazaar=90 pop
AF Bazaar=1070 pop
=980 pop less.
If the above is true, then:
Using a proposed downgrade kit will reduce population consumption and allow you to place additional Bazaars.

Impact: Bazaars already exist as a part of the game, by allowing players to build more of them due to reduced population consumption, the game as a whole will not be impacted in any detrimental way. Additionally, 97 (or fewer) Bazaars produce only 194 fps per day, in Iron Age right now I have a production of 74 fps per day (3 from guild included, 24 from hourly bar excluded). Having a town full of Bazaars is ridiculous to start with, and there really is no point to have 97 unless you are farming crowns for your guild(In which case you also have to remember the production is age dependent). If your concern is fps there is no way you would fill up your town entirely with Bazaars.

Conclusion: both of these buildings that have been brought up so far already exist in the game, and we have seen no detrimental affect to the game itself because of the construction and/or use of these buildings as intended. For that reason I support this proposal.

Now to address you directly Slayer:
While I do not, cannot, and quite frankly don't want to control how you look at a new suggestion, I value productive discourse. In any debate you need to have well defined side, and people actually defending those two sides. My above statement:
Individual aspects always count, but when you are looking at a new suggestion you look at how it will impact the game as a whole FIRST.
was merely a suggestion for a starting point of the debate about the implementation of this idea. The reason why I asked you to craft an actual argument is so that I would be able to respond directly, I have laid out mine, now it is your turn.

Edit: NormaJeane - 2016-12-03 - removed some redundant quote parts.
 
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DeletedUser7649

Guest
I respect everyone's opinion initially(hence I reply to it), as soon as whoever stated the opinion ceases to defend their opinion I no longer respect it. Also, for clarification Sl8yer posted two opinions:
1.Champs Retreat
So it is a kit with just one purpose.There are no other buildings that you want to downgrade and I doubt if there are many players that will actually want to use it. It really doesn't add anything to the game. If you want to keep the champions retreats from previous era's, don't throw them way. You have a storage kit.

2.Bazaar
It would effect them in a bad way. Players should not be allowed to downgrade their bazaar to BA, so it will use less population.

Both of which I have now addressed to the best of my ability.

All I want is a real conversation about this issue, which I actually support. If anyone would get back to the issue at hand I would be MORE than happy to discuss the issue with them based on the facts surrounding this proposition ;) with some relevance to the actual OP.

Does anyone have any thoughts about the OP?

+1 from me

Edit: NormaJeane - 2016-12-03 - removed some redundant parts.
 
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NormaJeane

Viceroy
I have temporarily closed this thread for cleaning purposes... it will be re-opened soonest!

EDIT:
I have cleaned up this thread to get things back on-topic again.

If anyone feels any post is off-topic or shows disrespect, please use the report function that is underneath each post.
 
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I, too, think for a new downgrade item to be too few uses. However, as the full-blown renovation kit never said in its name "to the newest era", why not improve it slightly to allow for a choice to which era a building shall be renovated to ^^. Even today, there are many who like a victorian villa or an early space age 70s flat. :)
 

DeletedUser7649

Guest
I, too, think for a new downgrade item to be too few uses. However, as the full-blown renovation kit never said in its name "to the newest era", why not improve it slightly to allow for a choice to which era a building shall be renovated to ^^. Even today, there are many who like a victorian villa or an early space age 70s flat. :)

+1 for this.

Unfortunately as the devs have not implemented it in all the time since the reno kit came out, I doubt they will do it now.
 

DeletedUser8511

Guest
over a years later ... requesting that a downgrade kit be added, would come in quite handy with Terrace Farms to produce goods of another era.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
requesting that a downgrade kit be added, would come in quite handy with Terrace Farms to produce goods of another era
isn't that stupid ?

if you need lower era goods and produce goods with Terrace Farms it still would be smarter to produce higher era goods and trade down 1:1
there you can get goods of all lower eras
and it makes the other guy happy who accept the trades
(and you don't need to make it 1:1. with better ratios for you you even make profit NOT producing lower era goods)
 

DeletedUser7059

Guest
Hi, dear devs, i have a sugestion:
For the ones that still fights on gvg, why not build a down-kit?
I have an AF champion retreat, i want to change it to other era, ie.future, why not build a item like this? :D
+1
 

DeletedUser7951

Guest
requesting that a downgrade kit be added, would come in quite handy with Terrace Farms to produce goods of another era.
For goods, it would be silly to down grade it, but if you only use your TF to produce FP it makes a lot of sense. I'd down grade mine to the lowest era possible and the demand for population would be close to nothing.

For this reason alone: No. Let's have some challenges in the game.
 

DeletedUser7454

Guest
In my book having 3 similar/same discussion on a topic indicates that there is an interest in this kit and maybe it should be considered and implemented. I myself would love to have a downgrade kit for champ and even some goods producing special buildings.
 

DeletedUser7107

Guest
Doesn't aren't good buildings.

I do not think your idea has any use. That kit would only be needed for the champions retreat, nothing else.
wrong.i have bazzzars and such I would like to be able to produce goods at a lower age. I like this idea very much
 
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