Discussion Discussion on FAS/FASP August 19th changes

[joyfulrider]

One person played the game feature for one complete championship and got the building at the end. Next championship, player not willing to perform and satisfied with one building and started using FSPs to gain the next level upgrade fragments which is clearly instructed in the championship announcement.
According to the game, player followed every bit of rules and no sign of exploits/cheating/unacceptable approach to get the next level building. This is wrong means nothing can be done.

Announcement says that mentioned approach needs to be prevented for all the players.

Five season winning reward allows the player just to collect 1 fragment from the building (without BG help) once a day is completely incorrigible. Will any player ever try to play that game feature if the rewards are having this nature.

 

[Dessire]

I have more than 300 jesters in my city and the that allows me, for example, decide on which building use them each day. Do i need goods? Do I need military units? Do I need FPs? It allows you switch from one type of city to another any day, the problem? You can't focus on only one type of city. In the same space you can have, for example, more than 100 crows nest, which is the equivalent of have 1 crows nest + 1000 jesters, but you cant have 1000 yesters! You could have 150 winter pyramids but not 1490 jesters! If you have 150 pyramids, you cant hace 100 crows nests.

 

[Emberguard]

In the same space you can have, for example, more than 100 crows nest, which is the equivalent of have 1 crows nest + 1000 jesters, but you cant have 1000 yesters! You could have 150 winter pyramids but not 1490 jesters! If you have 150 pyramids, you cant hace 100 crows nests.

Agreed.

That's precisely why I don't see an issue with Jesters/Finish Special farms. They'd need to increase the amount of Finish Special fragments per square on buildings producing the item for it to truly overtake any other building on anything other than flexibility. They'd also need to increase the military stats for it to be a net gain on military boosts.

As long as they don't increase it from the Jesters ratio of 3 fragments per 6 squares + road, and for the other buildings such as Celtic Glassworks (2 : 4 square ratio) and Sailmakers (2.3 : 4 square ratio) just limit the availability if they're considered too powerful due to not needing a road, then it should be fine.

It is nice when the Rival comes around being able to use a finish special if I need troop production or whatever to complete the task.

 

[nice2haveu]

I will do purchase in the game if they produce any building with "finish all special production" fragments.

That's my final decision!!

Let them do whatever they want. I take rest for my 10 year purchase cycle in the game.

Mostly used to say like "Happy forging" but now onwards bit extra words to it like,

"Happy forging without purchase!!"

 

[Vic.Vicious]

The glassworks and sailmakers were very limited. They were costly. You don't see many players with a lot of them. Not to a degree it should matter to anyone. FSP shouldn't have to be kept at a certain level or fragment per square because it doesn't matter how many I have (or the next player).....it doesn't affect your city. It's not like when I use one, I reduce your production. That's why there's so much confusion about what fair actually means in this game. If it's fair for the #1 player to have X amount of points vs player #200 having 4 billion less then it's fair for players to have different city layouts with different advantages. If players want to cry about a certain play style, we shouldn't reduce the game for those who play this way. That creates a division between f2p and pay-as-you-play. The devs should define what fair is! The game has no winner! Stats only mean what you believe they do.

 

[Kronan]

Of course we are going to take advantage of every obscure (and not so obscure) opportunity to advance our game. That should go without saying.

that's EXACTLY right. We are game opportunistic. We are collectively, as a player community that communicates together, MORE intelligent AND do demonstrate that as the vetted, deeply experienced players we are. We are motivated to look for exploitable designs to make our cities hyper productive - and they get shared.

Not for a second do I believe they can keep up with the number of innovative ways we pool our ideas on how to use techniques, and tools/kits they build - from small prototypes in our multiple cites to widespread adoption.

It's almost at the point where a ton of ideas on novel ways to build cities and use these tools are NOT mentioned and discussed in the "host's" forum, lest they be evaluated and curtailed. People use private discord channels to discuss innovative ways to enhance their cities.

But that's only 1 part of the puzzle. Inno has qualitative and quantitative tools that aggregate and examine how we use what they give us and "sell us".

This decision to limit FASP/FSP - didn't come from thin air or forum chat - this came because they watch how we build, what we build, and how we prioritize each item in the game's inventory and our cities.

They said as much in their announcement.

 

[Emberguard]

@Vic.Vicious I 100% agree with you it shouldn’t need to be capped on a per tile basis on buildings if putting this item on buildings is the direction they want the game to go in. Which it clearly is.

I also agree you having that item is irrelevant to what’s in my own city. It also has no value if we’re expected to never use the item

But if the devs are going to use the items availability through buildings as justification to nerf things every month, I would rather never see the efficiency per tile increase on finish special and have no nerfs than I would to see yet another nerf next time we get a better finish special production building.

What I really want though is for the developers to commit to the level of growth they’ve put in the (Live) game and start from that point whenever something needs correcting, rather than backtracking after it’s already too late to go back to what the game used to be.

This decision to limit FASP/FSP - didn't come from thin air or forum chat - this came because they watch how we build, what we build, and how we prioritize each item in the game's inventory and our cities.

They said as much in their announcement.

That‘s one of the bits that gets me. Did no one really forward the idea to the devs from any channel at any point in the last year?

‘Cause we’d all been openly discussing Jester farms not just in forums but on the official discord as well, and the official discord had people discussing using the finish specials on the Thunderdrake for upgrades months ago.

 

[Emberguard]

I will do purchase in the game if they produce any building with "finish all special production" fragments.

That's my final decision!!

If they do I’d have to panic rush to use them before it gets nerfed xD

 

[CrashBoom]

If they do I’d have to panic rush to use them before it gets nerfed xD

if they do it it will be a limited building

 

[Emberguard]

if they do it it will be a limited building

Oh I meant before Finish All gets nerfed in general

 

[Kronan]

That‘s one of the bits that gets me. Did no one really forward the idea to the devs from any channel at any point in the last year?

‘Cause we’d all been openly discussing Jester farms not just in forums but on the official discord as well, and the official discord had people discussing using the finish specials on the Thunderdrake for upgrades months ago.

Well, to your point @Emberguard, someone may have written to them a private thought via a support channel from the app or browser. Maybe they postulated the use of FSP/FASP on some buildings wasn't a fair way to allocate their power. We'll never know.

I didn't see it here in this forum (but could have missed it...) and don't track the discord channel at all.

I really do think that they track what people do in a technical way (data mine the cities and aggregated actions of the game...) , and saw a preponderance of evidence that those "soon to be excluded" buildings were getting the lion's share of action, and they didn't want that to happen.

 

[Dessire]

The glassworks and sailmakers were very limited. They were costly. You don't see many players with a lot of them. Not to a degree it should matter to anyone. FSP shouldn't have to be kept at a certain level or fragment per square because it doesn't matter how many I have (or the next player).....it doesn't affect your city. It's not like when I use one, I reduce your production. That's why there's so much confusion about what fair actually means in this game. If it's fair for the #1 player to have X amount of points vs player #200 having 4 billion less then it's fair for players to have different city layouts with different advantages. If players want to cry about a certain play style, we shouldn't reduce the game for those who play this way. That creates a division between f2p and pay-as-you-play. The devs should define what fair is! The game has no winner! Stats only mean what you believe they do.

Fun fact, I am a totally f2p player xD

The gold league exclusive buildings will still available for use on them the FSProductions?

 

[Emberguard]

Fun fact, I am a totally f2p player xD

The gold league exclusive buildings will still available for use on them the FSProductions?

For the foreseeable future, yes. But what those league buildings will have on them we’ll have to wait and see each event.

History Event gold league building did start out without the main building on the league building while in beta. Then got changed to put it them on. So who knows what future events will do.

 

[Fury the Avenger]

The gold league exclusive buildings will still available for use on them the FSProductions?

The new announcement has a list of all affected building (gold league are not included).

If you cannot get your Neo Collosus to level 9 or 10, would you keep it at level 7, so F(A)SP still work on it (it doesn't for 8-10)?

 

[CrashBoom]

The new announcement has a list of all affected building (gold league are not included).

If you cannot get your Neo Collosus to level 9 or 10, would you keep it at level 7, so F(A)SP still work on it (it doesn't for 8-10)?

no I would level it to 8
the building is too bad for a FSP

and you would have to use something like 100 FASP per year to get the difference back
(guessing not exactly calculated)

 

[RKinG]

Innogame should stop adding rotten new features to the game.
Also, not enough feedback in testing because they were too eager to put it on the servers
And then, they remove or considerably reduce their big new features. You might wonder if it wasn't just a purely financial action to ruin the balance of the game in exchange for quick revenue.
As if we didn't have enough problems in this game and important things to do for the good of the game. The players who finance the game are very disappointed. This affair doesn't help things. Sometimes, the best thing is to focus on the essentials like being able to throw away your old buildings. Even that, they miss. The useless GBG defenses. It's starting to be too much tinkering

Could we do something useful for the game on the beta?

Short-term vision and cancellation of new features. What's happening at Innogame?

all the new things have become useless and every time :

1. Ascended Earth's Eden
2. Ascended Green Guardians Market
3. Ascended Yggdrasil
4. Ascended Shinto Temple
5. Ascended Royal Bathhouse
6. Ascended Sun Temple
7. Ascended Mughal's Temple
8. Ascended Hut of the Sacred Instruments
9. Ascended Vagabond Library
10. Ascended Harvest Hub
11. Ascended Jolly Oink Pigsty
12. Ascended Royal Carriage
13. Haunted Tree - active
14. Lilac Garden lv.2 - active
15. Ethereal Fountain lv.2 - active
16. Fromage Pavilion lv.2 - active
17. Cobalt Blue Lagoon - active
18. Ascended Golden Dragon Gong
19. Ascended Zheng's Golden Bell
20. Wish Fountain - active
21. Golden Panda Statue
22. The Forgotten Temple - active

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Innogame should stop adding rotten new features to the game.
Also, not enough feedback in testing because they were too eager to put it on the servers
And then, they remove or considerably reduce their big new features. You might wonder if it wasn't just a purely financial action to ruin the balance of the game in exchange for quick revenue.
As if we didn't have enough problems in this game and important things to do for the good of the game. The players who finance the game are very disappointed. This affair doesn't help things. Sometimes, the best thing is to focus on the essentials like being able to throw away your old buildings. Even that, they miss. The useless GBG defenses. It's starting to be too much tinkering

Could we do something useful for the game on the beta?

Short-term vision and cancellation of new features. What's happening at Innogame?

all the new things have become useless and every time :

1. Ascended Earth's Eden
2. Ascended Green Guardians Market
3. Ascended Yggdrasil
4. Ascended Shinto Temple
5. Ascended Royal Bathhouse
6. Ascended Sun Temple
7. Ascended Mughal's Temple
8. Ascended Hut of the Sacred Instruments
9. Ascended Vagabond Library
10. Ascended Harvest Hub
11. Ascended Jolly Oink Pigsty
12. Ascended Royal Carriage
13. Haunted Tree - active
14. Lilac Garden lv.2 - active
15. Ethereal Fountain lv.2 - active
16. Fromage Pavilion lv.2 - active
17. Cobalt Blue Lagoon - active
18. Ascended Golden Dragon Gong
19. Ascended Zheng's Golden Bell
20. Wish Fountain - active
21. Golden Panda Statue
22. The Forgotten Temple - active

All the "new things" have not become "useless". A few new things may have become less useful but the vast majority of them remain very useful.

 

[RKinG]

All the "new things" have not become "useless". A few new things may have become less useful but the vast majority of them remain very useful.

Yes great, buildings that die after a few days and that we cannot remove
There is a serious problem with the game development

Not the first time they've down their super commercial buildings. They've been doing it every time for months.

The main thing in commerce is Trust

The problem is not FAS/FASP but the X2 of the blue galaxy. Their analysis is biased. They didn't even understand that

 

[Ironrooster]

I would rather they dropped the fragments from Neo Colossus lvl 8. The Neo Marble Gateway is okay, but not anything special.

 

[Fury the Avenger]

no I would level it to 8
the building is too bad for a FSP

and you would have to use something like 100 FASP per year to get the difference back
(guessing not exactly calculated)

Your estimate of 100 FASP is probably about correct, but I didn't think about it in term of goods/fp efficiency.
The ability to produce again whenever I need it can be valuable. But the loss in bonuses is an issue.

I was curious if anybody think the loss in bonuses is worth the flexibility. Personally I have other building I would use FSP on to get bigger amount of goods or fp in a short time frame.