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Auto Select for Negotiations

drakenridder

Emperor
Perk Creator
Go all the way, instead of Auto-Select, charge resources, gold and goods directly.
Maybe both options? Fully automated negotiations and semi-automated/auto-select?
Started to notice how tedious negotiations actually are at the browser compared to mobile. Mostly because the interfaces, touch screen is imo generally easier to use in negotiations' case. Where manual battles are easier to manage in the browser. If both features feature automatic options it'll be easier to use.
 

DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
I agree, Drakenridder, but let's not forget that the negotiations were set up to replace the fights in front using a little thought.
There we come to replace the fight without any reflection, a bit like the keen eye from the space ages. As such, I would understand more that an automatic negotiation is only accessible from a certain era...
 

drakenridder

Emperor
Perk Creator
I agree, Drakenridder, but let's not forget that the negotiations were set up to replace the fights in front using a little thought.
There we come to replace the fight without any reflection, a bit like the keen eye from the space ages. As such, I would understand more that an automatic negotiation is only accessible from a certain era...
Yeah the negotiations are a nice alternative for the battles but I think by offering both options: semi/fully-automated negotiations battles and negotiations can fall more in line with each other.
With battles you can arguably choose to semi-automatic fight. As the AI displays different hostile units that you're active unit can attack. If you choose, the AI can tell you're active unit where to go and which unit to attack with 1 click. With an auto-select option, which in my eyes is semi-automatic negotiating, the AI arranges different combinations for you. After which you can either choose to accept the proposed combination or adjust or roll again. Which is in a way similar to the proposed targets to attack while fighting. Personally I can't imagine manually fighting without the usage of the AI-support. I can see why for negotiations this would be seen as a weaker option but improving the AI a bit, while still incorporating risks for error could bring on a more similar level of usefulness.
With the fully-automated option for both features you let the AI make all the decisions on it's own. While significantly faster, it's more risky as the AI might make more often mistakes. I think you're proposal to offer a auto-select & pay feature would be comparable. As the AI might make an costly mistake that already costs you goods and an turn. To compensate the lack of buffs to absorb such mistakes which is present with battles but absent in negotiations.
Either way I think if both options are added the negotiations are better suited as an battle alternative. Featuring more direct risks of lose (as you're goods stock decreases anyways) but offsetting it with slightly greater rewards (not reliant on buffs and providing 2 advancements in GbG). I think if both exist but in particularly the fully automated negotiations, Inno might see some increasing numbers of diamonds spend on additional turns; generally people really don't like losing something and preventing lose has a strong pull.
 

DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
In GbG, a negotiation is worth 2 fights to compensate for the loss of time. But if the negotiations become automatic or semi-automatic, it would devalue the heat of the fights.
However, if an automatic negotiation were only worth the same combat value, we would lose a strategic effect.
Let me explain, it happened more than once that a guild at 155/160 let us go up to 140 to trap us. But at 140, we regularly manage (with good synchronization within my guild) to negotiate each while being about ten connected together, thus doubling our opponents.
 

Thunderdome

Emperor
With auto-battle, it only boils down to how big your Attack/Defense %'s are on the attacking side, how much of real units vs rogues used in the selection, and how much attrition (if doing GBg) you can get up to before hanging up the guns for the "night" (I say such because it's that period before server reset that resets all attrition gained back down to 0).

While battling in GBg, a fight is worth 1 progress point but gains only 0.5 attrition. A negotiation is worth 2 progress points per successful negotiation and gains 1 attrition.

While it does take time in negotiating (as well as having the goods), having the auto-select will have those guilds with players doing the nego thing gain those tiles much faster. In my test for GBg, I did two fights in 30 seconds (just by clicking and replacing troop as needed) in the browser (on auto-battle); I did a negotiate in 30 seconds in the browser as well (just by using my noggin). Thirty seconds to get the progress and attrition the same value. For me, and my methods of madness, this is fair. I like to work for my victories and successes.
 

MooingCat

Viceroy
Spoiler Poster
Not sure how different it is for each player, but for me it takes around 2.5 seconds for the animation each turn, with an additional second or so for the final turn. So around 8-9 seconds per negotiation just for the animation. A bit less if you win in 1/2 turns, but of course you'll also lose plenty of negotiations increasing the time. If it's to allow time for communication with the server, I'd rather have the option to continue ASAP, instead of having to sit through the animation.

 

DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
Don't forget that even with a big attack percentage and an alcatraz that gave you thousands of thugs, your attrition stops you at some point unlike negotiations where as long as you have resources you can continue...
 

Thunderdome

Emperor
The delay is purely client side - you can see that when looking at the boost icon for "diplomatic gifts" - the counter goes down almost immediately (at least in the helper) after the goods were offered and all are correct.
You are correct for that. If you're running a good amount of programs in Windows while playing the game, you would see that delay. Myself, I sometimes listen to Spotify (9.99 a month, who can beat that with no commercials) and running other programs like email while I play and I would see that swirly animation ("woo-woo-woo-woosh" is the sound I make when I see it such; if it isn't the animation sound, it should be). Other times, it would go very fast, hence why I mentioned the time it took me to do a negotiation and fighting.
Don't forget that even with a big attack percentage and an alcatraz that gave you thousands of thugs, your attrition stops you at some point unlike negotiations where as long as you have resources you can continue...
Haha, maybe one day it will give me that but for now I have to contend with just the 15 troop every 17-18 hours.
 

drakenridder

Emperor
Perk Creator
In GbG, a negotiation is worth 2 fights to compensate for the loss of time. But if the negotiations become automatic or semi-automatic, it would devalue the heat of the fights.
Actually it still takes at best 2-3 automated attempts to getting 1 victorious negotiation. Compared to battles where at worse 2x fully automated battles are needed to complete. However the risks of losing an automated battle is largely subsided by sufficiently high military buffs. As where negotiations are always suffering losses and risks of additional costs and time delays for buying additional attempts during negotiations. Which all things considered, imo makes it still fair balance for negotiations to count as 2x advancements. Since battles are an much safer bet and are in general still faster compared to automated negotiations. In particularly taking the risks into account.
Naturally this is just my opinion but if people really want an 1:1 negotiations must be significantly been speed up. Could be as suggested by removing animations. I can imagine a middle way. Where you can negotiate manually for 2x advancements + 1 attrition (except while using SC exploit). Alternatively you could be using fully-automated negotiations / turn but in exchange when victorious there's only 1 advancement and 0,5 attrition. That way both are somewhat equally balanced, except with negotiations you'll eventually run out of resources.
unlike negotiations where as long as you have resources you can continue..
Exactly; as long you're resources last. Eventually you'll run out of resources to continue negotiating. As where with battles and a sufficient buff you could reuse healed units to win other battles. Where with negotiations the resources are gone for good.
 
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