Discussion 5 Years of Power Creep, as a Chart

[xivarmy]

Thought it might be fun to have a look at how the recent power creep fits in with historical trends. All plotted points are main buildings, starting from the Pillar of Heroes as the pioneer of the multi-level-grand-prize trend that has dominated events for some time. I labelled some of the big hits when they came out.

Caveats:
- All buildings are evaluated off current standards for primarily FP, goods, attack and defense for attacking and defending army. Eagle Mountain was a bigger jump at the time it came out because the things it did well then have been devalued since - still it held up as arguably the best all-round event grand prize for close to 2 years. And the dot right before it, Athlon Abbey, was more or less considered awful at the time because the defending army didn't really matter but by current standards, if you value you the defending army now as well, it's almost as efficient as an Eagle Mountain.
- Where the main prize was a set I usually tried to give it the best layout i've scored for it - sometimes though there may be better layouts possible. Mainly though the good sets don't score extremely well on overall efficiency, more on ability to target 1 stat you really want, often especially in lower ages.
- I do have a system to give some credit to items created as well for those recent buildings that make more buildings or items - which probably would be up for some debate as to whether i'm doing it right. It does represent some of the power creep for a few of the recent buildings. But the ones that benefit most significantly from it (Sunhaven's FP packs are just rolled into its FP total and not treated as items) are the Archdruid Hut and Chocolatery so it's not really shaping the graph much beyond starting the giant rocket of power creep a little earlier.

Looking at the local peaks, power creep had been tapering off - there was a new peak every year or two, but with less and less of a gap over the previous peak. Until the surge with the golden levels came along and now the overall trend looks more like a hockey stick until they eventually maybe settle down.

 

[Emberguard]

Until the surge with the golden levels came along and now the overall trend looks more like a hockey stick until they eventually maybe settle down.

Maybe because they still need to give something to those that don't achieve the Golden Level?

If you get the last "normal" level, and then have to wait 150 days (5 months) or whatever to produce the Golden Level, that normal building still needs to be worth placing down over whatever else is available during those 150 days

 

[xivarmy]

Maybe because they still need to give something to those that don't achieve the Golden Level?

If you get the last "normal" level, and then have to wait 150 days or whatever to produce the Golden Level, that normal building still needs to be worth placing down over whatever else is available during those 150 days

Some of it is also trying to coax people into adopting the defensive army stats - which until there's more to do with it than GE5 means for many not giving up other stuff to do so, and that's a lot of the jump right now.

 

[Kronan]

@xivarmy
What is your Y axis label? It feels like an index , so can you explain a bit more how the data points were computed and what we're measuring here? I like the presentation otherwise, and the commentary

 

[xivarmy]

@xivarmy
What is your Y axis label? It feels like an index , so can you explain a bit more how the data points were computed and what we're measuring here? I like the presentation otherwise, and the commentary

1.0 Efficiency represents a currently "perfect unlimited non-premium option" for a single primary stat - i.e. no "regular" building can get more than 1.0 points for FP, for goods (and a separate category for treasury goods since they're capable of being more efficient but more restricted - not that too many non-GBG buildings pick up much of anything from that), for each individual attack stat, for troop production. If a new building comes along that would get more than 1.0 and is something I deem as a building that could be massed as the primary source of that stat for a city, then it drives down the efficiency of everything else with that stat to set the new 1.0. Things like the Skull Cave do not change the weighting and instead just get a monster efficiency number because you cannot have a city of skull caves - not that it's displayed on this chart as it's also not a main building

So for something to be passing 3.0 typically means it's doing 4-5 primary stats pretty darn well by current standards (and sometimes a few points from some secondary stats that I set the cap at lower than 1.0 each - diamonds, blueprints, coins, supplies, item creation from a few different directions depending on the function of the item).

 

[xivarmy]

An example of a breakdown:

Sunhaven Palace gets:
- 0.92 points for its FP production (base and packs)
- 0.11 extra points for the scaling of 1 sustained forgotten temple (recent addition as forgotten temple does not work evenly for all FP producers - so technically I guess buildings can currently get up to ~1.2 points for FP).
- 0.56 points for its goods production
- 0.67 points for its attack for attacking army
- 0.42 points for its attack for defending army
- 0.29 points for its defense for defending army
- 0.17 points for its blueprint production
----
3.12

 

[Kronan]

Thanks - more helpful to understand the point you're making

I wonder if you could compute the Legendary Lodge in the same way (and the base before it changed to LL - the Hero Tavern too). I suspect the LL would be up near the SP. Phantom Tower and Panda - probably also close.

 

[xivarmy]

Thanks - more helpful to understand the point you're making

I wonder if you could compute the Legendary Lodge in the same way (and the base before it changed to LL - the Hero Tavern too). I suspect the LL would be up near the SP. Phantom Tower and Panda - probably also close.

The renewed by a new golden upgrade items are typically between the new stuff and the old stuff. Viceroy Villa is at 1.8. Legendary Lodge is at 2.55.

Phantom Tower, Panda Shrine, and Buccaneer's Bay are the points preceding sunhaven on the chart starting from 2.57 for Phantom Tower.

 

[Deleted User - 57457]

@xivarmy does the phantom tower relieves bonus points for not needing a road connection?

 

[Kronan]

Maybe there is a new sheriff in town @ FoE, directing strategy and tactics in Product Management @ FoE. It seemed to break out of the range it was stuck in dramatically, which says to me that it's been influenced by a different set of opinions. Kind of like a dam breaking, of sorts. It's dramatic, as demonstrated by that single almost vertical line.

I'd suggest that someone perhaps more visionary to a higher strategy could be preparing us for a new class of battles and game requirements. Instead of playing pure only "catch up" (there is some of that with large amounts of non-typical omnipresent in those items to help adoption of GE 5 to higher levels), possibly a venue change for GbG that will require them too.
Clearly by your math, the breakout might not be accidental, and part of a larger picture we can't yet see (but they're preparing us for vs catching us up to)

 

[pjotropbeta]

Well, it is just good !
The game was getting boring, having played to the last era. The last eras more or less the same, "fighting" the same in general a lot of spamming and that was it.
Now finally something changed. Most important the need for better defense, but also the stronger buildings. Now I have to collect new event buildings, and they will make the change.

 

[xivarmy]

@xivarmy does the phantom tower relieves bonus points for not needing a road connection?

Yes, size for each building counts half the length of the short side if it needs a road. Which phantom does not so gets to skip.

 

[xivarmy]

Another fun metric, that fighters may feel is more relevant, is "% Wasted Military Boost Squares" - this essentially ignores everything but the army boosts to rank the buildings while taking into account how hard it is to get each stat (i.e. 0% in this case could come from the ideal source for just 1 stat; or half of 2 stats that could be replaced with ideal sources for each stat in the same space). This chart is a bit messier in the recent section as not every building is supposed to be just for fighters. And Phantom Tower *is* the reigning king still for it (it mainly suffers on FP and Goods - which there were other options for the ToC, but they suffer on boost). The collection of buildings at 100% are when they made a building with no military boost. In general on this chart, lower is better.



You still observe that the 4 most recent buildings are in a class of their own compared to what came before.

Pertaining to the golden-updated options, Viceroy's Villa is at 0%, and Legendary Lodge is at -17% (a bit better than the panda in this regard).

 

[UBERhelp1]

I was just thinking of putting something like this together myself, saw the thread title, and new it had to be Xivarmy! It is wild how much creep there's been just this year alone, after a relatively steady increase over the previous years. I would be curious to see where the non-gold upgrade versions of event buildings score. I'd assume those would be more in line with what is expected as "normal" event buildings. It seems like the golden upgrade versions are balanced via an entirely new metric.

 

[Goldra]

I have made my own clasification of power/square of buildings. Ignoring premium buildings, this is my top10:
1- Forgotten temple
2- Sunhaven palace
3- Panda shrine
4- Bucaneers bay
5- Spikes of serpent
6- Legendary loft
7- Phantom tower
8- Superior ritual flame
9- Sun temple
10- Serpent head

But Atthlon abbey is 14th, so when it has the golden upgrade, it will become a top10.

 

[xivarmy]

I was just thinking of putting something like this together myself, saw the thread title, and new it had to be Xivarmy! It is wild how much creep there's been just this year alone, after a relatively steady increase over the previous years. I would be curious to see where the non-gold upgrade versions of event buildings score. I'd assume those would be more in line with what is expected as "normal" event buildings. It seems like the golden upgrade versions are balanced via an entirely new metric.

At least at first a lot of the non-golden versions would've been bumps down in the progression - not abnormal, but prizes people didn't care about - specifically the Druid Hut and Tower of Conjunction without their golden upgrades were nothing special. And that was probably a lot to do with the magnitude of pushback on golden upgrades at first: that they were buildings people wanted if it included the gold, but not if it didn't.

But the last 3 are decent buildings compared to what came before even without the golden upgrade. Panda Reserve I have at 1.9. Trading Post at 2.22. And Summerhold at 1.80.

 

[Beta King]

Maybe there is a new sheriff in town @ FoE, directing strategy and tactics in Product Management @ FoE. It seemed to break out of the range it was stuck in dramatically, which says to me that it's been influenced by a different set of opinions. Kind of like a dam breaking, of sorts. It's dramatic, as demonstrated by that single almost vertical line.

I'd suggest that someone perhaps more visionary to a higher strategy could be preparing us for a new class of battles and game requirements. Instead of playing pure only "catch up" (there is some of that with large amounts of non-typical omnipresent in those items to help adoption of GE 5 to higher levels), possibly a venue change for GbG that will require them too.
Clearly by your math, the breakout might not be accidental, and part of a larger picture we can't yet see (but they're preparing us for vs catching us up to)

To entice the old timers to upgrade everything they have with cash they have to make all the old stuff obsolete quickly then make that dangling $15 carrot nice big and juicy. That monetary manager is working overtime to max that bonus out but i don't know if the trajectory is sustainable so i would guess it will plateau at some point soon.

 

[xivarmy]

What a recalibration looks like (thanks to the changes to the grilling grove):



- Things that benefitted heavily from attack for attacking army got depressed significantly. The athlon abbey has now pulled ahead of the eagle reserve
- Things that benefitted heavily from FP production were depressed slightly.
- Things that make buildings were depressed significantly because the buildings they make are now not as impressive and the sunhaven makes better buildings faster.

 

[Deleted User - 57457]

@xivarmy I wonder what disruption the trailside smithy will do. Since it can mass produce sunhaven palaces

 

[Demeter7]

I have wondered if the power creep in the last year might mean there might be a new feature for fighting in the works?
We started to see more Defense boosts coming before level 5 was released. It was an omen of things to come.
Maybe the increase in attack boosts is another omen.

We certainly do not need more power for GBG. Most either just farm, or don't do it much at all.
Seriously... 100%, 200%, 300% 30 minute attack boosts, on top of the new buildings, are not much use for GBG when players are fighting with zero and near-zero attrition most of the time.
Inno tried ideas to fix GBG. They know it is broken. They failed and gave up.
GvG has become worse than ever with bots ruining it.

Maybe Inno is working on something totally new?
I hope so!
If so, I hope it is not something lame.