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Feedback when attacking with 1 real unit + 7 rogue, the AI ALWAYS (12/10) kills real unit first?

Andi47

Overlord
When the change was made, that the rogues move last - has there been an additional change, that - when I attack with 1 "real" unit - that after converting the roges, the AI ALWAYS (14 of 15 attempts) kills the "real" unit first before attacking the converted rogues?

Before the "rogues move last" change, I had a 50:50 chance or better, when attacking the penultimate station of GE difficulty III with 1 railgun + 7 roges, that the real railgune survived and one of the rogues was killed instead during the first wave of the battle - so I was able to do the second wave without resurrecting the real unit with diamonds.

Now, after the "rogues move last" change, the chance, that the real unit survives, substantially dropped (to almost zero). I need 8 or more attempts to win the penultimate encounter of GE difficulty III.

(I could also try with 2 Railguns + 6 rogues, but then I end up with only 5 units after the first wave, with NO chance to win the secend wave)

So as for now it seems that there are ony two possibilities to win the last two encounters of GE on the "battle" way:
* either push Zeus, Aachen and CDM to level 20 or higher (or even to level 30?)
* or use diamonds

Seems that a rebalance is needed to make those battles a little bit easier. (No, I don't want a battle, where I can blindly push the automatic button - I simply want to have a realistic CHANCE to win the battles! Maybe a slight reducing of the AI's attack/defense boni in the last few battles of GE level 3?)
 
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thephantom

Emperor
InnoGames
The AI has always first targeted your next unit if it is within their range. So since the Rogue unit now doesn't move before certain other units (such as the Rail Gun), that first "next unit to take their turn" is no longer the Rogue.

This this isn't an additional change, the AI has always worked this way except now in certain circumstances that "next unit" is not the Rogue. One could call it a side effect of the change, I guess.
 

DeletedUser7431

Guest
... (extracted) ...
So as for now it seems that there are ony two possibilities to win the last two encounters of GE on the "battle" way:
* either push Zeus, Aachen and CDM to level 20 or higher (or even to level 30?)
* or use diamonds
Exactly.
I would hope that the developers are not too much guided with this intention for further changes.
 

DeletedUser5149

Guest
The AI has always first targeted your next unit if it is within their range. So since the Rogue unit now doesn't move before certain other units (such as the Rail Gun), that first "next unit to take their turn" is no longer the Rogue.

This this isn't an additional change, the AI has always worked this way except now in certain circumstances that "next unit" is not the Rogue. One could call it a side effect of the change, I guess.

I always thought that all things being equal, the AI would attack a wounded whatever before the "next unit." I have lost many a troop one or two hits at a time, while other identical troops are not targeted at all. But I could be wrong, I guess.
 

thephantom

Emperor
InnoGames
Well I do not have the exact formulas for the actions of the AI but based from my own observations they always targeted the "next unit" (if it is within their reach) regardless of anything else. Even before when I had 1 proper Rail Gun and the enemy had multiple, if the enemy's Rail Guns were not taken out before my Rail Gun's turn came (but after the Rogues were transformed), they would fire at my 1 proper Rail Gun since it's the next unit to take a turn. I would then move my own Rail Gun, and the enemy gets to move their last Rail Gun - which no longer fired at my proper (and wounded) Rail Gun, but at a Rogue transformed into a Rail Gun, simply because it was to take a turn next.
 

DeletedUser4381

Guest
Well I do not have the exact formulas for the actions of the AI but based from my own observations they always targeted the "next unit" (if it is within their reach) regardless of anything else. Even before when I had 1 proper Rail Gun and the enemy had multiple, if the enemy's Rail Guns were not taken out before my Rail Gun's turn came (but after the Rogues were transformed), they would fire at my 1 proper Rail Gun since it's the next unit to take a turn. I would then move my own Rail Gun, and the enemy gets to move their last Rail Gun - which no longer fired at my proper (and wounded) Rail Gun, but at a Rogue transformed into a Rail Gun, simply because it was to take a turn next.

My observations agree... Been that way for ages, with the exception of wounded units are prioritised where they can be reached. (I've had rogues/units that were damaged "out of turn" because they were the only thing in range for an enemies first move, which subsequently get targeted even if they aren't the next to move.)

I think the "Priority on the only non-rogue" is indeed a "side-effect" (although I prefer the term "oversight") of the change that was made to "fix" the 1st rogue bug. All things being equal, especially given the requirement to 1+7 a *lot* of the GE fights, I would rather the bug actually get fixed rather than having this workaround/fudge in place.

At the very least give them some priority... Putting them last without increasing their target priority makes the rogues useless fodder again in many 2 stage battles, hence why I've stopped GE for the most part.
 

DeletedUser7239

Guest
I hope this gets fixed, and yes, with the new update (the one prior to the 2ºpart of artic) it seems to target always the "real" rail gun!
How can someone fight like this in gvg?
10 fights, 10 real guns out!
 

DeletedUser2752

Guest
I hope this gets fixed, and yes, with the new update (the one prior to the 2ºpart of artic) it seems to target always the "real" rail gun!
How can someone fight like this in gvg?
10 fights, 10 real guns out!
Well, it takes less time to train a Rail than a rogue...
 

DeletedUser7239

Guest
Well, it takes less time to train a Rail than a rogue...

Yes, generaly people have 4 barracks of "normal" troops and alot of rogue caserns, how can you win a 60 fight sector in gvg with only 16 real troops?
If they target real ones, 16 fights is the maximum!
This is very bad.
 

DeletedUser2752

Guest
Yes, generaly people have 4 barracks of "normal" troops and alot of rogue caserns, how can you win a 60 fight sector in gvg with only 16 real troops?
If they target real ones, 16 fights is the maximum!
This is very bad.
How did you get your multitude of rogues? From Alcatraz which should also be producing Rails as well.
 

DeletedUser7239

Guest
How did you get your multitude of rogues? From Alcatraz which should also be producing Rails as well.

I have about 60 caserns of rogues, all full opened, meaning each 5 days 300 rogues.
My traz seems to be producing about 90% rogues :/
And i have 9 rail guns caserns on city.
 

Cardena

Squire
I do not have as many rogues as legiox, but I have more than 20 rogues hideouts, but only 1 barrack of the units I want to fight with or want to use for sieges or deff.
If I am loosing the rail unit before the rogues, I will run out of the real units very fast. Especially if I had to fight against an unexpected siege in an era, I do not have the barracks for.
 

DeletedUser7239

Guest
I do not have as many rogues as legiox, but I have more than 20 rogues hideouts, but only 1 barrack of the units I want to fight with or want to use for sieges or deff.
If I am loosing the rail unit before the rogues, I will run out of the real units very fast. Especially if I had to fight against an unexpected siege in an era, I do not have the barracks for.

Thats the big issue here lol they want to end the ghost guilds but this is not the right way to do it.
AT LEAST they should "reprogram" the traz to give mininum of 50% of ind ie. rail gun.
Or reverse it.
Where i play the gvg is starting to come to a stop, people cannot finish the sieges.
And its a huge disrespect to put something like this live without any feedback before it goes live.
 

RKinG

Squire
There have been other changes on the rogue and accompaniment units.
By transparency Innogame need to communicate all change
we spent a lot of diamonds and real money for rogue hidout
Innogame is a company that sells a product that is then
breaks the product
it is not honest are the crooks who do this
give the lists of all changes affecting rogue and rogue accompaniment unit
 

thephantom

Emperor
InnoGames
There have been other changes on the rogue and accompaniment units.
By transparency Innogame need to communicate all change
we spent a lot of diamonds and real money for rogue hidout
Innogame is a company that sells a product that is then
breaks the product
it is not honest are the crooks who do this
give the lists of all changes affecting rogue and rogue accompaniment unit
What are these 'other' changes you're referring to? When did they take place? The only changes that have taken place are listed in a changelog.
 

DeletedUser4381

Guest
Thats the big issue here lol they want to end the ghost guilds but this is not the right way to do it.
AT LEAST they should "reprogram" the traz to give mininum of 50% of ind ie. rail gun.
Or reverse it.
Where i play the gvg is starting to come to a stop, people cannot finish the sieges.
And its a huge disrespect to put something like this live without any feedback before it goes live.

To be fair, The rogue change did get feedback... mostly pointing out this very issue and all roundly ignored. (Just like normal, in other words.)
 

RKinG

Squire
  • The Rogue unit will now move last during battles. This change will also resolve problems where the abilities of a transformed Rogue would not be correctly updated (ex. a Rogue turned into a Rail Gun not ignoring defensive abilities like Stealth and Flying).


There was more change, but little time to test them. If after your change brings the problems it is your responsibility.
changes regularly contribute their problem of lots related
during testing I discovered big differences between commercial world and beta
with unity which serve to change rogue it's killed to a 2nd tour figth
it remains that rogue and all are killed if not used diamons
And in addition there is the bug repair, this is strange
indicate any changes on the subject: Rogue, normal unit to change rogue and repair whit diamons in guild expedition. Anything that bind to rogue and guild expedition

Many strange things whit rogue change :rolleyes:
 
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thephantom

Emperor
InnoGames
  • The Rogue unit will now move last during battles. This change will also resolve problems where the abilities of a transformed Rogue would not be correctly updated (ex. a Rogue turned into a Rail Gun not ignoring defensive abilities like Stealth and Flying).

There was more change, but little time to test them. If after your change brings the problems it is your responsibility.
changes regularly contribute their problem of lots related
during testing I discovered big differences between commercial world and beta
with unity which serve to change rogue it's killed to a 2nd tour figth
it remains that rogue and all are killed if not used diamons
And in addition there is the bug repair, this is strange
indicate any changes on the subject: Rogue, normal unit to change rogue and repair whit diamons in guild expedition. Anything that bind to rogue and guild expedition

Many strange things whit rogue change :rolleyes:
What you're describing aren't 'changes' but issues that are currently taking place on Beta.
 
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