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Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

Owl II

Emperor
SMH. Previously, you remarked that your guild can get 16K daily battles in GBG. Now, that count has been reduced to 4K. In my very first post on this thread (#61 on 6/28) I predicted that my fight count would be reduced 75% when the change goes live. Thanks for confirming my prediction. Even with only 25% of what was previously achievable the rewards are still good.
This is pure trolling. 16k fights make strong guilds in the living worlds, and that's a fact. Nerf has not yet been included in the living worlds, unfortunately. And you take it upon yourself to compare warm with soft and run to complain when you are pointed out to it.
 
This is pure trolling. 16k fights make strong guilds in the living worlds, and that's a fact. Nerf has not yet been included in the living worlds, unfortunately. And you take it upon yourself to compare warm with soft and run to complain when you are pointed out to it.
Once again you resort to attacking the messenger instead of the critiquing message. Do you disagree that you are experiencing a 75% reduction in fights?
 

jovada

Regent
When you do not build the other guilds will remove SC's in front of your guild. Your own players lose what could be fights at a much lower attrition. As I said you play checkers while we play chess.
Can you invent some more contradictions ? When we were opposed to you the difference is we build you did'nt , you drove us back everytime we took 5 sectors and sometimes profiting of take over of our camps , sure that after a while we are not going to build useless camps.

You better be correct then always giving false information.
 

Emberguard

Emperor
If you hadn't taken phrases out of context, but would have quoted my message in full this part would look funny, to say the least. I summarized the expectations of the supporters and explained why they will not come true.
You didn't summarize other peoples views, you summarized your own views on the basis of people being in opposition to you. Not everyone in support of it even wants farming (some do, but not all of them) and I haven't seen anyone say they don't want competition, just not impossible competition. It's not a competition if you have a constant steamroll

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Psychologically the game is at a point where many players have already done everything, little meaningful room left to grow, and are at a point of stagnation or burn out.

That leaves the game in a pivotal point where on-the-fence players need to be re-invigorated to be retained, but at the same time are at the highest risk of leaving if something feels too much like a forced reset (even if progress is retained). Which unfortunately is the sort of general sentiment I'm seeing come across more than any other sentiment


Gameplay wise, game modes like GvG and GBG just don't work without limitations or mechanics that equalize the strength on any given matchup between the outlier and everyone else. Attrition is the only mechanic in play for this particular role. But at the moment it's not acting as a equalizer, it's acting as something that strengthens the outlier Guilds position on the map and weakens the weakest Guilds. Ironically farming has been acting as a artificial equalizer. It distorts the gameplay, but it's the main equalizer in the absence of a equalizing mechanic.
 

Owl II

Emperor
You didn't summarize other peoples views, you summarized your own views on the basis of people being in opposition to you. Not everyone in support of it even wants farming (some do, but not all of them) and I haven't seen anyone say they don't want competition, just not impossible competition. It's not a competition if you have a constant steamroll

------

Psychologically the game is at a point where many players have already done everything, little meaningful room left to grow, and are at a point of stagnation or burn out.

That leaves the game in a pivotal point where on-the-fence players need to be re-invigorated to be retained, but at the same time are at the highest risk of leaving if something feels too much like a forced reset (even if progress is retained). Which unfortunately is the sort of general sentiment I'm seeing come across more than any other sentiment


Gameplay wise, game modes like GvG and GBG just don't work without limitations or mechanics that equalize the strength on any given matchup between the outlier and everyone else. Attrition is the only mechanic in play for this particular role. But at the moment it's not acting as a equalizer, it's acting as something that strengthens the outlier Guilds position on the map and weakens the weakest Guilds. Ironically farming has been acting as a artificial equalizer. It distorts the gameplay, but it's the main equalizer in the absence of a equalizing mechanic.
But a nerf won't make a battleground out of a farm! and nerf will not make the competition more accessible to those who don't want to compete now. They write literally: it doesn't matter if I hit or not. It's important that I come into the game and have the opportunity to beat. So, nerf won't even give them that. We are with you (personally with you) are now going through the second circle regarding this.

My disappointment is not in the fact of nerf itself. Only that it does not solve any of the existing problems of GBG. And nothing is offered except nerf. I have no problem with limiting fights. They are limited each time in a natural way. Every day! If nerf supporters want this restriction for themselves, then ok, let them get it. I don't mind. The only bad thing is that all the GBG sores have remained unresolved
 

Thunderdome

Emperor
Since the balancing issues (according to Inno) only exist in the diamond league, why wouldn't the nerf be applied only in this league and the old system maintained in the others?
I have yet to see any response from the lower leagues (copper to platinum) about this nerf and how it affects them to be quite honest. Possibly that everyone that had responded are from the Diamond league where this is evidently happening.
 

Yekk

Viceroy
I have yet to see any response from the lower leagues (copper to platinum) about this nerf and how it affects them to be quite honest. Possibly that everyone that had responded are from the Diamond league where this is evidently happening.
It is unusual to have 3 SC up in Platinum for hitting a tile. Few guilds have treasuries that can support endless SC at that level. Even the drop downs from Diamond save as they have no real foes. That paired with guilds wanting to tank to stay in platinum means the nerf does not effect that group much. Fixing the rating system would reduce the tanking which may mean guilds built more SC's. Might even make Inno some diamond sales.
 

Fenix

Viceroy
It's not just the lower leagues that will be little affected by this. I belong to a top guild in live, but we rarely build camps. These changes will only make life easier for us...I will certainly not be affected for the worse, I really think that we can actually improve a lot.

I believe that globally only small groups of players (in my beta guild, less than 10) will see the number of battles they do decrease. Everyone else can see them increase (if they want to), increasing the rewards they can receive as well.
 

Thunderdome

Emperor
It is unusual to have 3 SC up in Platinum for hitting a tile. Few guilds have treasuries that can support endless SC at that level. Even the drop downs from Diamond save as they have no real foes. That paired with guilds wanting to tank to stay in platinum means the nerf does not effect that group much. Fixing the rating system would reduce the tanking which may mean guilds built more SC's. Might even make Inno some diamond sales.
I guess that holds true as most players know when it's appropriate to throw the SC into play. Since I only went up to gold league before going into a guild, there wasn't much to do in the lower leagues other than just take the sectors, making sure the guild is in a good standing, and wait until promotion time.
It's not just the lower leagues that will be little affected by this. I belong to a top guild in live, but we rarely build camps. These changes will only make life easier for us...I will certainly not be affected for the worse, I really think that we can actually improve a lot.

I believe that globally only small groups of players (in my beta guild, less than 10) will see the number of battles they do decrease. Everyone else can see them increase (if they want to), increasing the rewards they can receive as well.
As with @Yekk's response, the lower leagues will probably be not affected since there is very little progress to be made in order to earn a spot to get promoted. Copper hardly sees anyone going for the sectors (you'd be lucky to see 1 guild doing at the same time as you); silver, maybe 1 or 2 guilds to spice things up; gold, about 3 or 4.
 
July 25th I posted feedback on the main topic, they apparently could not be bothered to judge it an show the post, hence, I will post it here now.

This change is realy killing for GBG, the now very active players will be discouraged and probably not even realy bother anymore, since the rewards for being active are cut back enormously. It will also lead to more traps being used and players even being able to do less, traps will be overpowered this way and guilds can hold on to what they own much more easily and it will lead to less active teams being pinned down to their base even more. The question should be, what are you trying to solve? You are trying to let more people play by making it easier for them because people that are already active get nerfed and lose interest. Keep it the way it was or add more siegecamps closer to the outer ring, so smaller guilds have an easier way getting on the map. A base of a guild could be 2 siegecamps for instance, allways allows for guilds to get back on the map more easily.
 

zookeepers

Marquis
It will also lead to more traps being used and players even being able to do less, traps will be overpowered this way.

Yes. The problem of this nerf is that nobody would like to attack sector with traps any more until few hours before reset. If many guilds start using traps, it will kill the whole activity.

At the current balance guys think like this... Hey, I may get +30 attrition hitting this sector, but I would have 96% or free battled after on, no problem.

You may think it's good that you can protect your sectors from the big guilds by traps, but NO. Only the central sectors have 2 or more slots. They are the ones who'd defend by double traps. (single trap isn't that effective) And even if you built traps, they have 60 fighters, each will do 1 nego for 2 attrition and that is it.

The question should be, what are you trying to solve?

Nerf is said to decrease load for the servers, it would decrease total diamonds players gain through GBG, and lessen total activities of players/guilds. So, if these are the purpose, this is a great method. (Do it right away.)

A base of a guild could be 2 siegecamps for instance, allways allows for guilds to get back on the map more easily.

I don't think camps on the base would make smaller guilds to better compete with the big ones, but it would at least ensure 1/2 attrition battles for 2 or 3 sectors, which is very good.
 

Yekk

Viceroy
I guess that holds true as most players know when it's appropriate to throw the SC into play. Since I only went up to gold league before going into a guild, there wasn't much to do in the lower leagues other than just take the sectors, making sure the guild is in a good standing, and wait until promotion time.

As with @Yekk's response, the lower leagues will probably be not affected since there is very little progress to be made in order to earn a spot to get promoted. Copper hardly sees anyone going for the sectors (you'd be lucky to see 1 guild doing at the same time as you); silver, maybe 1 or 2 guilds to spice things up; gold, about 3 or 4.
Platinum's problems are more than Diamond's were. Only the real diamond guilds wanting to move up with the rest racing to lose, Tanking, so they can stay out of Diamond. Even with the nerf we see guilds still working Diamond hard to move back down. We have 4 guilds in the league we are in at the moment with 3 or less tiles. As a result of their non fighting we are seeing much fewer fights. Sure is fun watching grass grow.
 

CrashBoom

Legend
It's kind of a unspoken agreement not to use traps. And so, you rarely get to see them built. It's not because they are weak.
obviously

why using traps when they don't work against too many SC :rolleyes:


that behaviour should have been changed a long time ago
from: SCs (no attrition) against traps (double attrition) = *0 *2
to: SCs (one attrition less) against traps (one attrition more) = -1 +1 = the normal 1 attrition
 
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