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Discussion Guild Battlegrounds Watchtower and Siege Camp Ability Re-balance

HunZ95

Squire
Of course always the same when they have no arguments they must act denigrating.

As a small guild doing 4 or 5 sectors a day with full or nearly full attrition , i think that you the "oh so big and good fighter" can swap all day long with limited attrition.

I posted prints before from real world and beta with our participations in diamond league, the only one making assumptions (like mostly all your posts) is you.
denigrating? I didn't make a bad comment.
on the other hand, in every comment you condemn and stigmatize any player who spends a lot of time playing the game, because surely anything can only be achieved in the way you imagine and present it here.
yes, I saw the post, but the comments you associate with it do not reflect reality.
but it's a shame to get into any kind of argument against a user who has special protection here on the forum...
 
with all your posts you just prove that you have never played in a normal top guild.and
you have no idea what exactly happens in a GbG season, you're just trying to make assumptions as an outsider.
denigrating? I didn't make a bad comment.
Something may have gotten lost in translation. Claiming that another player hasn't played in a top guild and has no idea what happens in GBG is not "denigrating"? I agree with @jovada, resorting to insults is a clear sign that you have nothing worthwhile left to contribute.
 

DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
Here is what my guild is going through during the current CBG on one of my live worlds:
captu374.png

The situation is such that the nerf would have little impact on us, but it has given us a new challenge, pushing back our individual attritions.
I am proud of my small guild which has a very good average in 4 days and without any accessible SC.

The problem, in my opinion, is the unbalanced groupings. Our guild is usually ranked between 30th and 80th based on our CBG results, but we're consistently up against 2-3 top 10 guilds with every Diamond League foray.
Often we finish between 3rd and 5th place, allowing us to often stay in the diamond league, rarely we finish 6th or 7th relegating us to the platinum league where we should stay for lack of manpower.

I am sharing with you the experience of my little guild, but I know, from discussions, that we are far from the only ones to experience this type of misadventure.

I'm not criticizing other guilds, I'm not even jealous of the heavy hitters, I just want Inno to understand that in all competitions, you don't mix categories without killing or weakening interest.
In football, we do not mix a league 2 team that would have won a single match with only the 3 or 4 best in league 1 before realizing that they do not have the same level, then send them back to league 2 to repeat this same stupid reasoning.
 

jovada

Regent
denigrating? I didn't make a bad comment.
on the other hand, in every comment you condemn and stigmatize any player who spends a lot of time playing the game, because surely anything can only be achieved in the way you imagine and present it here.
yes, I saw the post, but the comments you associate with it do not reflect reality.
but it's a shame to get into any kind of argument against a user who has special protection here on the forum...
Again a response with fake insinuations , i never stigmatized players who fight a lot , only players who do more then 1000 fights a day , meaning they take a profit of their own guildmates and only wait to jump in to fight with 0 attrition.

And even a dumber reaction is your insinuation that i have special protection , special protection of what , i only give feedback
 

Yekk

Viceroy
The reason most Guilds are locked in their base is that the distribution of the leagues is wobbly!
But when considering grouping guilds by abilities, those same professional guilds don't want to always be pitted against each other. They take pleasure in being 2 strong by penalizing the 6 weak for their farming comfort.
Until Juber starts to put this point into his reports nothing changes. Farming (getting rich) is actually not a bad thing if everyone can do so in a fair way. There is ample evidence that changing how guilds move to leagues is much more important that the play on the field.

"grouping guilds by abilities" is not nonsense. A guild that can only take a few tiles hurts guilds that can take 100's and vice versa.
 

Owl II

Emperor
Until Juber starts to put this point into his reports nothing changes. Farming (getting rich) is actually not a bad thing if everyone can do so in a fair way. There is ample evidence that changing how guilds move to leagues is much more important that the play on the field.

"grouping guilds by abilities" is not nonsense. A guild that can only take a few tiles hurts guilds that can take 100's and vice versa.
And in this we are all in solidarity. Hallelujah!
 

DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
On my live world, according to FOE DATA (an FOE review site), there are 58 diamond league guilds, 34 of which have 1,000 LP. These figures alone show an imbalance in the diamond league where there are more guilds with 1,000 LP than in "single diamond".
Why does Inno make no difference between guilds that stay each season in the 1,000 LP league and those that come from Platinum?
What is the interest, if I take my case, to associate 3 of the 5 biggest guilds active in GbG against amateurs?
Recently cuts are available showing part of the results in GbG, why not use them for groupings?
 

HunZ95

Squire
Again a response with fake insinuations , i never stigmatized players who fight a lot , only players who do more then 1000 fights a day , meaning they take a profit of their own guildmates and only wait to jump in to fight with 0 attrition.

And even a dumber reaction is your insinuation that i have special protection , special protection of what , i only give feedback
So 1000+ battles can only be achieved by exploiting teammates?
If you think so, then TEAMWORK is an unfamiliar concept to you.
 

DEADP00L

Emperor
Perk Creator
So 1000+ battles can only be achieved by exploiting teammates?
If you think so, then TEAMWORK is an unfamiliar concept to you.
It's Inno who wants to change the GbG, there's no point in attacking players who find this change significant as if they were the ones who wanted it and imposed it. The modification will undoubtedly penalize your way of playing but most players make on average less than hundred fights per day, many type with 2 camps or less, and, for them, the reduction in the effect of the camps will not change much -thing. As you have already said, it is up to the players to adapt and, in this case, we will have to adapt to Inno's decision.
 

HunZ95

Squire
It's Inno who wants to change the GbG, there's no point in attacking players who find this change significant as if they were the ones who wanted it and imposed it. The modification will undoubtedly penalize your way of playing but most players make on average less than hundred fights per day, many type with 2 camps or less, and, for them, the reduction in the effect of the camps will not change much -thing. As you have already said, it is up to the players to adapt and, in this case, we will have to adapt to Inno's decision.
I don't attack him because likes the change, but writes untrue things, and I will react to that, whether likes it or not.
 

jovada

Regent
every fighter doing +10.000 fights in a season is an "abuser" even 1000 fights a day is waiting for others to do the heavy fights and then you to take 5 1/2 sectors with no attrition at all and maybe 1/2 sector to use your attrition afterwards.

So 1000+ battles can only be achieved by exploiting teammates?
If you think so, then TEAMWORK is an unfamiliar concept to you.

You can speak of TEAMWORK whatever you want , this is a fact you can't denie.
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
Until Juber starts to put this point into his reports nothing changes. Farming (getting rich) is actually not a bad thing if everyone can do so in a fair way. There is ample evidence that changing how guilds move to leagues is much more important that the play on the field.

"grouping guilds by abilities" is not nonsense. A guild that can only take a few tiles hurts guilds that can take 100's and vice versa.
Farming *is* a bad thing. Rewards are needed to get people to care, but the feature works best when people want to fight to get to/maintain higher leagues and it's a battleground where you have the strong guilds fighting each other, not playing pat-a-cake with each other and holding down the also-rans.

Part of the problem with zero attrition is that a discontinuity between being in platinum and being able to do (say) 10 times the fights you'll get when you're in diamond encourages people to avoid diamond, and not fight to win in platinum. This discontinuity would exist even with better matchmaking when some of the guilds that think themselves strong atm would find they're the new chum in the new groupings and not welcome in the cool kids club anymore. So it's important that 0 attrition gets addressed.

Further the degree of reward from it was so high that it made it difficult to get people to care about other features they might introduce.

Their nerf is more extreme than any of the suggestions from players to deal with the issue I saw. I continue to think this is because they didn't want to come back to it and go "nerf #1 wasn't enough - nerf again!" Instead they'll be able to reduce the nerf potentially if they decide it went too far.
 
So 1000+ battles can only be achieved by exploiting teammates?
If you think so, then TEAMWORK is an unfamiliar concept to you.
Let's think this through. 70 player guild. 5 swaps per day. 160 tiles per sector. 20 sectors per swap shared by 2 guilds. 8000 battles fought per day per guild. 1 player is 1.4% of the guild roster, 1000 battles is 12.5% of the total battles per swap day. For the sake of conversation, let's assume that 60 of the 1000 are end-of-day attrition burns. 940 (net) is 11.8% of the total. Yes, it's safe to presume that this player is exploiting his guildmates and the guild's leaders are enablers.
 

Yekk

Viceroy
Farming *is* a bad thing. Rewards are needed to get people to care, but the feature works best when people want to fight to get to/maintain higher leagues and it's a battleground where you have the strong guilds fighting each other, not playing pat-a-cake with each other and holding down the also-rans.

Part of the problem with zero attrition is that a discontinuity between being in platinum and being able to do (say) 10 times the fights you'll get when you're in diamond encourages people to avoid diamond, and not fight to win in platinum. This discontinuity would exist even with better matchmaking when some of the guilds that think themselves strong atm would find they're the new chum in the new groupings and not welcome in the cool kids club anymore. So it's important that 0 attrition gets addressed.

Further the degree of reward from it was so high that it made it difficult to get people to care about other features they might introduce.

Their nerf is more extreme than any of the suggestions from players to deal with the issue I saw. I continue to think this is because they didn't want to come back to it and go "nerf #1 wasn't enough - nerf again!" Instead they'll be able to reduce the nerf potentially if they decide it went too far.
The also rans should not be in such a league. Your family car does not compete well in a formula one race. It does do well on your countries roads though... This nerf does not make your family car anymore race ready for formula one...

The feature works best when we have guilds that can compete. If they are once a day 4 tile guilds they can not be put with guilds that can play 24/7.
 

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
The also rans should not be in such a league. Your family car does not compete well in a formula one race. It does do well on your countries roads though... This nerf does not make your family car anymore race ready for formula one...

The feature works best when we have guilds that can compete. If they are once a day 4 tile guilds they can not be put with guilds that can play 24/7.
There will *always* be also rans. The top 2 or 3 guilds on most servers are so far ahead of the top 10 who are far ahead of the top 30. It's hidden by the current profit motive encouraging those top 2 or 3 to prop up some of the top 30 letting them have zero-attrition fights so they can get fights back. And comes at the expense of the current also-rans who might be able to fight back to some degree if not for things flipping every 4 hours by cooperative effort.

While the matchmaking could be better, the same problems will exist unless the behavior incentives are such that "going to 1000 is not worth avoiding". Removing zero attrition is essential for that (how much attrition is needed exactly is however an open question).

It may also encourage less lockdown because guild #1 is not sufficiently fed by #14, and #22 and would rather see more guilds doing what they can.
 

CrashBoom

Legend
Again nonsens , every day we took 4 or 5 sectors , and every day you pushed us back to HQ so we had to start again with full attrition,
that is the typcial ******* mentality of the top players/guilds
and who now says they do that for the fights is a liar or a very big idiot

they could do 159 on it and don't take those sectors next to the HQ of others
then the small guild would take the sector of the big guild
the big guilds fights on the sectors next to the HQ would be lost (but that doesn't matter they are made and they don't need that sector)

but then the big guild could retake the lost sector and then put again 159 on the sectors next to the opponents HQ again

and if you now think about it: with not pushing back the weak guild to their HQ the big guild could make more fights
small takes one: big takes one and +159 on the sector next to the HQ
and if the small guild would know they keep the sectors next to their HQ they would sure build SC on in so they can make more fights and so the big guilds also can make more fights
 
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Owl II

Emperor
that is the typcial ******* mentality of the top players/guilds
and who now says they do that for the fights is a liar or a very big idiot

they could do 159 on it and don't take those sectors next to the HQ of others
then the small guild would take the sector of the big guild
the big guilds fights on the sectors next to the HQ would be lost (but that doesn't matter they are made and they don't need that sector)

but then the big guild could retake the lost sector and then put again 159 on the sectors next to the opponents HQ again

and if you now think about: with not pushing back the weak guild to their HQ the big guild could make more fights
small takes one guild: big takes one and +159 on the sector next to the HQ
and if the small guild would know they keep the sectors next to their HQ they would sure build SC on in so they can make more fights and so the big guilds also can make more fights
This is a typical mentality of "weekend" players who believe that only they are loaded with RL. And the rest are in the game solely for their convenience. They sit 24/7 and wait for Mr Busy to come play. I will leave unfinished flags near hq if you agree to monitor and close them when necessary
 

CrashBoom

Legend
This is a typical mentality of "weekend" players who believe that only they are loaded with RL. And the rest are in the game solely for their convenience. They sit 24/7 and wait for Mr Busy to come play. I will leave unfinished flags near hq if you agree to monitor and close them when necessary
and that is why the cap will be so great on live :cool:

then you can play more RL too o_O
 

Owl II

Emperor
Part of the problem with zero attrition is that a discontinuity between being in platinum and being able to do (say) 10 times the fights you'll get when you're in diamond encourages people to avoid diamond, and not fight to win in platinum. This discontinuity would exist even with better matchmaking when some of the guilds that think themselves strong atm would find they're the new chum in the new groupings and not welcome in the cool kids club anymore. So it's important that 0 attrition gets addressed.
But it is almost impossible to achieve 0 attrition even now. I don't know where this crazy idea came from. We are sharing the map this season with one more or less live guild. Camps are placed in every available slot. The checkerboard order of the tiles is optional on the waterfall map: you always have two adjacent tiles at least. I had a round with my guys yesterday right after the reset. Then in the morning I hit 5 or 6 more provinces, 2 of them on 4 line with 3 camps. I received 60 points of attrition as a result. Then in the afternoon we had to take a tile with 3 camps to stay in the center. And now I have 70. I can hit of course. But I won't: spending units in a sluggish season is unwise. So where is my promised 0 attrition?
 
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