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Feedback Daily Changelog w/c 20th September

xivarmy

Overlord
Perk Creator
For example I’ve read somewhere on an live server forum that the dev team can’t do anything with GvG anymore because the developers who’ve made it and understand the underlaying code are out of the company already and those who’re been working in the dev team can’t figure out the code of GvG. Thus making any change to it practically impossible.

While understanding someone's old spaghetti code can indeed be a chore, this is certainly a question of will - that if it was a priority either an existing developer could take it on until they get it and then clean it up, or a new developer with the appropriate skillset could be hired.

But it hasn't been a priority for a very long time.

---

But yes, I agree that the candor of the new CM could go a long way to reducing hostility on beta forums. So far he's given much more insight into why we can't have nice things and appeared to be on the community's side :) Hopefully this leads to some positive changes in the tone of communication on both sides. But ultimately the community is going to want to see nice things still eventually.
 

Juber

Overlord
Community Manager
While understanding someone's old spaghetti code can indeed be a chore, this is certainly a question of will - that if it was a priority either an existing developer could take it on until they get it and then clean it up, or a new developer with the appropriate skillset could be hired.

But it hasn't been a priority for a very long time.
Regarding GvG we already posted many information in this thread when the development of the gbg started: https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/guild-battlegrounds.10399/

But yes, I agree that the candor of the new CM could go a long way to reducing hostility on beta forums. So far he's given much more insight into why we can't have nice things and appeared to be on the community's side :) Hopefully this leads to some positive changes in the tone of communication on both sides. But ultimately the community is going to want to see nice things still eventually.
Thanks you for the flowers. :)
As an active player for many years now and also active one in the forum, I know how it is as a player (especially as a long term player) when features get released and it feels like feedback is not acknowledged. That's why I try to provide you with as many information as I can, but you do have to remember, that I can not write about everything and am still officially employed by InnoGames. :)
Also I can not make wonders happen. Many things are out of my scope, but you can be sure I will do the best I can to let your feedback be heard. (I hope I did not annoy the developers to much with my many comments about the heal all button recently ^^)
 
Re: background color... Go back 2-3 years or whatever when they renovated the message center, the forums, the quest window and riot harder and break them then :p Some people tried I remember but it got panned off as "modern design" ;)

As for the space between the time and the name - it's only like 2-3 spaces on my screen:

If it's more dramatic on yours, perhaps provide a screenshot?
I think it is slightly brighter and bolder on mine (maybe just your image upload? or change in the last few days?), I appreciate getting my chat in this screenshot LOL! Mine is 1 and yours is 2, almost identical.

1632596742092.png

Because of the shading on the sides of the chat and the muted time colors, it can be difficult for people to read the time. Of course time would be more relevant if I COULD SET MY TIME ZONE IN THE GAME for display purposes only!! Or say how long ago the message was sent. Hells bells my guild chat in multiple worlds gets used so infrequently that some messages were done weeks ago and you'd never know just looking at the time code. There is no need for the space between the time and the name and the message, only one space bar is enough. I also don't like that we cant DM people in chat anymore, although I know a lot of people had problems accessing the DMs perhaps they were on mobile and it's not a feature on there?? Its just annoying to have to go between message center to DM people and chat at the same time.

Maybe there a future way to be able to have the message center and the chat open at the same time?
 
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nice2haveu

Baronet
The problem with the aid all is, that it is not that simple to implement as many think. Currently when clicking aid, the entire city data has to be loaded and then it has to be decided on, which building will be motivated/polished. This takes a bit (these calculations are done during the loading shield after clicking the button). Now imaging this has to be calculated not for one, but for 140 friends, 79 guild members and 80 neighbors. You will have to wait a long time without being able to do anything. Many players would think, that the game somehow locked itself and reload, which cancels the aiding.
A heal all button does not have these problems.
The developers of course know, that this button is wished by a lot of players, but it is not that easy to implement.
Well explained and thanks for giving the details. But myself have feedback suggestion to it by dealing with message center. Not sure it will meet all corner case for aid-all.

When the player clicks the Aid-All button, friends/neighborhood/guild will receive a individual Aiding request. In this particular individual request to player, can keep the accept button. If the players has some building to get aid, it can auto aid in 30 or 60seconds. If no buildings, accept option in the aiding request will be available to that player for next 24hrs. Very similar to trade requests, till when it is possible to make the trade, trade requests will be active in the message threads. Same kind of logic goes here too.

It looks like another headache of spamming the message center, but if some player wished to aid, why not to give receiver a chance for accepting it. Aiding Request receiver can accept only when their city has some building to aid. So can make them aware, if they are blocked from our aiding. In message center has favorite, hidden, important tab filter. By having "gift" or "request" tabs filter and aiding request message always display under "social" message section means much helpful.

Another problem to consider, friend and guild members, both are same. This Devs can code easily, by pulling neighbors, friends, guild players of current aiding player, removing duplicates of players is easy thing to do. It will avoid redundant aiding request for a receiving player. Since it is going to be in social bar message section, even though it is not guild related activity but still sending it to guild member is not a big problem for any player keep this in social message section with a common thread title to every players in the game.

This won't affect single aid button approach. Let it behave as it is. If any players already aided, those players will be avoided when collecting friends/neighborhood/guild members information after clicking the aid all button.

At maximum level, every player has a chance to get 299(~300) aiding request per day. It's plenty. But it serves the purpose very gracefully. Spamming okay means, this suggested feedback will take care of the aid all button without any trouble.
 

SlytherinAttack

Baronet
Baking Sudoku Master
If the aid all is difficult to implement, may I suggest, meanwhile, a sort of aid carousel?
If we could manually aid every player with a button that remains in the same place it could be a simpler task.
If user doesn't have any building to motivate or polish, displaying alert message is the problem. That's only stopping in getting the carousel. Even if managed to avoid the alert message, carousel effect ends only when no users left to aid. So that will get into a infinite loop with a user who has to get aid and who has nothing to get aid. Much annoying and another fine tuning in carousel should be implemented.
 

SlytherinAttack

Baronet
Baking Sudoku Master
Well explained and thanks for giving the details. But myself have feedback suggestion to it by dealing with message center. Not sure it will meet all corner case for aid-all.

When the player clicks the Aid-All button, friends/neighborhood/guild will receive a individual Aiding request. In this particular individual request to player, can keep the accept button. If the players has some building to get aid, it can auto aid in 30 or 60seconds. If no buildings, accept option in the aiding request will be available to that player for next 24hrs. Very similar to trade requests, till when it is possible to make the trade, trade requests will be active in the message threads. Same kind of logic goes here too.

It looks like another headache of spamming the message center, but if some player wished to aid, why not to give receiver a chance for accepting it. Aiding Request receiver can accept only when their city has some building to aid. So can make them aware, if they are blocked from our aiding. In message center has favorite, hidden, important tab filter. By having "gift" or "request" tabs filter and aiding request message always display under "social" message section means much helpful.

Another problem to consider, friend and guild members, both are same. This Devs can code easily, by pulling neighbors, friends, guild players of current aiding player, removing duplicates of players is easy thing to do. It will avoid redundant aiding request for a receiving player. Since it is going to be in social bar message section, even though it is not guild related activity but still sending it to guild member is not a big problem for any player keep this in social message section with a common thread title to every players in the game.

This won't affect single aid button approach. Let it behave as it is. If any players already aided, those players will be avoided when collecting friends/neighborhood/guild members information after clicking the aid all button.

At maximum level, every player has a chance to get 299(~300) aiding request per day. It's plenty. But it serves the purpose very gracefully. Spamming okay means, this suggested feedback will take care of the aid all button without any trouble.
Daily logging to the game, reading around minimum 300 or 500 messages. So it won't be a matter to me as long as aiding request kept in a separate thread.

But what you suggested needs some fine tuning,
By aiding, did you forgot the small rewards we get. Coins, forge points, blueprints and goods etc (with some help from gbs) are provided as rewards while aiding. Bringing the entire collection of rewards is one of the major factor here actually needs to cover user's city age too (in case of truce tower)

30 or 60sec auto aid mechanism really not needed. Why? Assume aid all button clicked, it will fetch each users city buildings available to aid, and decides the city building based on priority to get aid successfully. It doesn't take much time, no need to send aiding request. Then what's the problems means, getting the exact reward for that user aid. So sending aiding request, stops us collecting the rewards in this moment. Only way to support this, when clicking the aid all button, all the rewards are to be kept in a separate queue and added to the inventory similar to boost crates but as aiding bonus. Only headache is user has to click the aiding bonus crate separately or let the user use the aiding bonus rewards however they want.

Another annoying factor, spamming the message box. IMHO, even if devs applied this logic, it won't get past the beta community. Without spamming the inbox, single click aid all needs some existing behaviour to be compromised. getting rid of giving alert message if no buildings available to aid but still it gives some rewards to us which is current behaviour. Motivate / Polish not possible to do, but aiding can be done without any worries currently too even if no buildings available. So with this, no need to spamming the users inbox, if no building available, just collect that aiding reward which is always be a coins rewards and get that stored in the inventory as aiding bonus rewards crate.

Mainly aiding all logic should be running in the background. It doesn't need to affect the city progress in any way. Once it is completed, updating our inventory with aiding bonus reward crate to collect each day is not a big trouble. Problem solved.

Easy to explain this as feedback, but definitely minimum 2 weeks sprint task to code and test this approach. Sorry Dev's, but it is possible to give in this way. (When myself was Application design developer in my career, my only nightmares are modifying the existing logic to support new features. After years am suggesting similar kind of behavior. Couldn't believe myself :D)
 

CrashBoom

Legend
The problem with the aid all is, that it is not that simple to implement as many think. Currently when clicking aid, the entire city data has to be loaded and then it has to be decided on, which building will be motivated/polished. This takes a bit (these calculations are done during the loading shield after clicking the button). Now imaging this has to be calculated not for one, but for 140 friends, 79 guild members and 80 neighbors. You will have to wait a long time without being able to do anything. Many players would think, that the game somehow locked itself and reload, which cancels the aiding.
A heal all button does not have these problems.
The developers of course know, that this button is wished by a lot of players, but it is not that easy to implement.
and now imagine
the "aid all" is send to the server
the player can continue playing without waiting for the result

the server is working on the "aid all" while the player is playing his game
after 5-15 minutes the result is send to the game
 

Owl II

Emperor
Regarding GvG we already posted many information in this thread when the development of the gbg started:
Oh, yes! Devs posted many information regardind GVG. They explained they would not transfer the GVG to mobile version. They explained they would instead develop a cross-platform feature to replace (?) GVG. Everyone knows well what we got as a result. Now we have two unfinished modes for guild battle. One of them is cross-platform. The guild rating is based on the other one. Both are subject to abuse that could have been avoided. And now what? And now devs are removing all the features of the browser version that are not available in the mobile version. All but one. Will they go to the end, or will they get stuck in the middle of the way again? Put a huge effort to never achieve the target
 

nice2haveu

Baronet
Daily logging to the game, reading around minimum 300 or 500 messages. So it won't be a matter to me as long as aiding request kept in a separate thread.

But what you suggested needs some fine tuning,
By aiding, did you forgot the small rewards we get. Coins, forge points, blueprints and goods etc (with some help from gbs) are provided as rewards while aiding. Bringing the entire collection of rewards is one of the major factor here actually needs to cover user's city age too (in case of truce tower)

30 or 60sec auto aid mechanism really not needed. Why? Assume aid all button clicked, it will fetch each users city buildings available to aid, and decides the city building based on priority to get aid successfully. It doesn't take much time, no need to send aiding request. Then what's the problems means, getting the exact reward for that user aid. So sending aiding request, stops us collecting the rewards in this moment. Only way to support this, when clicking the aid all button, all the rewards are to be kept in a separate queue and added to the inventory similar to boost crates but as aiding bonus. Only headache is user has to click the aiding bonus crate separately or let the user use the aiding bonus rewards however they want.

Another annoying factor, spamming the message box. IMHO, even if devs applied this logic, it won't get past the beta community. Without spamming the inbox, single click aid all needs some existing behaviour to be compromised. getting rid of giving alert message if no buildings available to aid but still it gives some rewards to us which is current behaviour. Motivate / Polish not possible to do, but aiding can be done without any worries currently too even if no buildings available. So with this, no need to spamming the users inbox, if no building available, just collect that aiding reward which is always be a coins rewards and get that stored in the inventory as aiding bonus rewards crate.

Mainly aiding all logic should be running in the background. It doesn't need to affect the city progress in any way. Once it is completed, updating our inventory with aiding bonus reward crate to collect each day is not a big trouble. Problem solved.

Easy to explain this as feedback, but definitely minimum 2 weeks sprint task to code and test this approach. Sorry Dev's, but it is possible to give in this way. (When myself was Application design developer in my career, my only nightmares are modifying the existing logic to support new features. After years am suggesting similar kind of behavior. Couldn't believe myself :D)
Said like fine tuning, but you actually gave a closest solution to get aid all. Performance and hanging issues need to be tested very thoroughly while bringing this approach.
 

nice2haveu

Baronet
and now imagine
the "aid all" is send to the server
the player can continue playing without waiting for the result

the server is working on the "aid all" while the player is playing his game
after 5-15 minutes the result is send to the game
Actually that's how multi tasking takes place. Think of a scenario like, opening multiple tabs with different contents in browser never load until current tab actions are finished means something wrong with approach. It needs to be handle well.
 

Owl II

Emperor
Why do we need aid? Buildings do not produced resources in full without the aid. Why was this mechanism implemented in the beginning? To force the players to communicate with each other. It was a separate feature of the game at the start of the game. This took a significant part of the time and effort of the players.
The game has changed now. Aid is just an unpleasant routin which everyone wants to get rid of. Players and developers so (as says CM). But in this case, isn't it easier to remove the impact of the aid on the buildings? Cancel the aid altogether. Let all the buildings produce in full everything that is intended.
Recently there have been many buildings that do not require aid, by the way,.
But it will be necessary to decide what to do with the plundes. Because the aid stars also protect buildings from plunders
 
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-Alin-

Emperor
Why do we need aid? Buildings do not produced resources in full without the aid. Why was this mechanism implemented in the beginning? To force the players to communicate with each other. It was a separate feature of the game at the start of the game. This took a significant part of the time and effort of the players.
The game has changed now. Aid is just an unpleasant routin which everyone wants to get rid of. Players and developers so (as says CM). But in this case, isn't it easier to remove the impact of the aid on the buildings? Cancel the aid altogether. Let all the buildings produce in full everything that is intended.
Recently there have been many buildings that do not require aid, by the way,.
But it will be necessary to decide what to do with the plundes. Because the aid stars also protect buildings from plunders

And seed vault, Atlantis museum, voyager rain forest proiect and blueprints from aiding for low age players who cant contribute yet to other gbs.
 

Outlaw Dread

Baronet
The problem with the aid all is, that it is not that simple to implement as many think. Currently when clicking aid, the entire city data has to be loaded and then it has to be decided on, which building will be motivated/polished. This takes a bit (these calculations are done during the loading shield after clicking the button). Now imaging this has to be calculated not for one, but for 140 friends, 79 guild members and 80 neighbors. You will have to wait a long time without being able to do anything. Many players would think, that the game somehow locked itself and reload, which cancels the aiding.
A heal all button does not have these problems.
The developers of course know, that this button is wished by a lot of players, but it is not that easy to implement.

Some thoughts on how to get around some of the issues with an Aid All Button:

1) Only let it apply to 1 group at a time (friends, then separately to Guildies, then separately to Neighbors). That reduces aiding to only 3 clicks, but about 1/3 the load on server for each click compared to doing all 3 groups at once. Also, aiding neighbors separately has other benefits, like not signaling you collection times.

2) In practice, the Aid All button stays grey until you select 1 group from drop-down, and then once you’ve clicked “Ad All’ for that group the button again greys out until you select a different group.

3) If you use it, you forfeit collecting all coins and BPs for that group. That would also reduce the load on the server. Most mid to advances players don't really need coins or BPs, but would like to be able to aid their friends and guildies, especially new and lower-level ones that benefit the most from receiving a P/M.
If you want the coins/BPs, you have to manually aid.
 

jovada

Regent
Regarding GvG we already posted many information in this thread when the development of the gbg started: https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/guild-battlegrounds.10399/

Why do i have the feeling it's all a big lie ?? They don't have the code anymore ?

Maybe i am really dumb but can you explain the several changes they made ?
1) They changed the possibilty to put spearman in the sectors
2) They transformed the use of champions in random army of the same age in sectors when granting freedom.
3) They tried to remove protection 1 day to every 4 hours

Or maybe GvG is composed with several different codes working together ?? And by miracle those changes worked together with the code they don't have anymore.

GvG is to complex for new players and there is no tutorial ? Instead they provided us with a GbG for dummies , all you have to do is put siegecamps and start farming by clicking.

Where GvG you can fight in real time against other guilds ( at least at 20h) instead they provided us with a pvp that saddly nothing have to do with "person versus person" no the second player you have to defeat often has more att/def then the npc on first place and if you are unlucky like me you have for several months now the same 12 npc rotating.

GvG to difficult to create maps after future era , instead an all ages map since arctic , they created maps apart for the colony's why not the same for GvG?

Not enough players for GvG ?? You chased them away by stopping with the all ages map.
 
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Owl II

Emperor
And seed vault, Atlantis museum, voyager rain forest proiect and blueprints from aiding for low age players who cant contribute yet to other gbs.
Oh ... yes. I forgot about those who built these GB. I can't judge objectively how many of them there are. There are more than 5 of them%, perhaps
 
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