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Feedback Quantum Incursions update

Pericles the Lion

Emperor
drakenridder said:
You still need to be in a guild that is fanatically enough to reach those levels. Most guilds won't. For that at live the top10 QI guilds might progress far enough. Fact remains: majority of guilds won't make sufficient progress to get a chance for silver/gold upgrades and won't end high enough in the ranking for those upgrades. I hope this clarifies it better. How the silver/gold upgrades are leaning with QI into the essence of a P2W structure.
In another game only #1 of a competitive feature got the very best thing in the game. It worked with seasons. Yes, it's even superior than events but it does rely on special upgrades. From which only the best where obtainable through special events. Arguable it isn't P2W. Just beat everyone and you get it, can't buy it straight up. Except you're gonna have fun competing with whales who gotten the strongest items besides that. If it was in Forge it's the equivalent of 10x exclusive expansions. As where for the whales they got basically items that would be the equivalent of a currently nonexistent ultimate upgrades that would improve your %:att_def_attacker_defender: in the relevant feature by flat X%. Significantly buffing them. Good luck as a f2p competing against whales. With QI you can at least bail out by paying $/€15-25 on pc if you're not part of one of the best guilds but that's what's making it half P2W. Similar but less extreme than my example above. With your team you must get to some milestone. With a highly fanatic and capable guild in QI it's doable, for the majority it's currently not.
Click to expand...
I bolded your last sentence.

I agree with you. The top guilds will progress further than the weaker guilds. But, what is wrong with that? That's how it should be. This isn't a matter of a tougher guild beating up on a weaker one (as is debated regarding GBG). Instead, it's a matter of guilds making steady progress towards gaining the strengths needed to be successful in QI. Currently, the best sources of QI boosts are the Settlement buildings and the Forgotten Temple. While players in top guilds have most of the Settlement Buildings and the FT there are many players in lower guilds that do as well.
 

SirAlucard

Steward
Pericles the Lion said:
I bolded your last sentence.

I agree with you. The top guilds will progress further than the weaker guilds. But, what is wrong with that? That's how it should be. This isn't a matter of a tougher guild beating up on a weaker one (as is debated regarding GBG). Instead, it's a matter of guilds making steady progress towards gaining the strengths needed to be successful in QI. Currently, the best sources of QI boosts are the Settlement buildings and the Forgotten Temple. While players in top guilds have most of the Settlement Buildings and the FT there are many players in lower guilds that do as well.
Click to expand...
But this will affect other elements as well. GEx and GBG will be heavily influenced, because the active "top" players will gather in the biggest and most successful guilds, while everyone else gathers in smaller and weaker guilds. How do you want to compete fairly against those "top" guilds, that are mostly determent by their wallet size?
 

Atosha

Merchant
Regarding 2nd championship changes:
  • "Rewards Revamp: The Quantum Pass and Leaderboard are now more rewarding, offering the chance to earn the new buildings."
Quantum Pass: with the step change (30 --> 40), I don't see it more rewarding.
Quick comparison:
New page 15 is equivalent to page 20 of last championship and we now obtain :
  • Medals = 30 k vs 28k - only positive change (however no medal winnable through rewards chests). Still gonna take years for most of expansion...
  • Shards = 2.5k vs 3.8k --> minus 1.3k, to telate with the introduction of QI Spring 2024 Epic Selection Kit if you buy all end of incursion rewards chests...
  • FSP : 5 vs 7
  • Kit colossus: 10 vs 12
Leaderboard: is there any change? Except the change of neo-building of course.

  • "Reward Chests Adjusted: Easier access to free reward chests and a special QI Spring 2024 Epic Selection Kit for dedicated adventurers."
I don't see lowering the required progress points as a good change. Having them at 40 & 160 was not a bad calibration imo and an incentive to get guildmates on the QI board.


On the reward topic, I wonder if the evolution may be to always have 2 incursion types with rotunda/winner's plazza or sentinel/tactician, and have the main reward change with the QI era (Iron being colossus)?
Or are there real differences between Dragon valley and Basilisk Peak (not sure we'll know this, I guess most guilds took Drake mountains).
 

Pericles the Lion

Emperor
SirAlucard said:
But this will affect other elements as well. GEx and GBG will be heavily influenced, because the active "top" players will gather in the biggest and most successful guilds, while everyone else gathers in smaller and weaker guilds. How do you want to compete fairly against those "top" guilds, that are mostly determent by their wallet size?
Click to expand...
It's not "wallet size" that makes the difference though that is a common misperception. There are lots of high-ranked F2P players. I'm one of them.
 
drakenridder

drakenridder

Overlord
Perk Creator
Pericles the Lion said:
I bolded your last sentence.

I agree with you. The top guilds will progress further than the weaker guilds. But, what is wrong with that? That's how it should be. This isn't a matter of a tougher guild beating up on a weaker one (as is debated regarding GBG). Instead, it's a matter of guilds making steady progress towards gaining the strengths needed to be successful in QI. Currently, the best sources of QI boosts are the Settlement buildings and the Forgotten Temple. While players in top guilds have most of the Settlement Buildings and the FT there are many players in lower guilds that do as well.
Click to expand...
You're now framing that the point was that it's bad or undeserved given a strong team. Which isn't. The point is rather that the design leans into P2W structures. If in QI silver and golden frag. where included in late stages of QI's free pass it would've still been possible for f2p players to get them regardless of how fanatic their guild in QI is. If it was for example starting around the point where you would've gotten 1,5 Neo colossus lvl8 in the place of the 100 Qshards it. Which would've been more similar to events. That would deviate from a P2W-like structure towards a f2p structure. A strong team would obviously still be able to grab more and faster silver/golden upgrades if a high enough level gets beaten by them. Which would be more a freemium structure like the old days: pay and get it quickly, maybe get some extra or play for free and get it later.
 

SirAlucard

Steward
Pericles the Lion said:
It's not "wallet size" that makes the difference though that is a common misperception. There are lots of high-ranked F2P players. I'm one of them.
Click to expand...
There are always exceptions like you, but the fact remains, that if someone spends money on QI or events for the silver or even gold pass for example, that person will definitely get more and stronger buildings, some of them even semi or even fully exclusive to the silver or gold pass. This results in getting more army power, more fps, more goods. Maybe add to that the will to spend diamonds to speed things up. You see, where I'm going with it? In the past, it was always only about being faster than the f2p players, but with all these new options and the fact, that more and more game mechanics try to push the f2p players to pay their hard earned cash on them to compete with the top 1%, makes this whole game p2w. And the p2w players will gather in the big guilds, in these big guilds there may be some exceptions like you, but they will still be a minority in the top 1%. Heck, even in the top 10% they will be exceptions. And these guilds will only be able to be defeated by other guilds with p2w players, the guilds with f2p players as the majority will never be able. And with the current development, this gap will only get bigger and bigger. I'm already seeing it in GBG on my main world. The last few rounds where heavily dominated by guilds with p2w players as their majority. How I know that? Well, because they for example do have multiple copies of the same buildings in their cities. And I'm not talking about the buildings that are older than 12 months. I'm talking about the buildings from the willife event 2024 and the anniversary event 2024 for example.
 
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Fury the Avenger

Baronet
Atosha said:
Regarding 2nd championship changes:
  • "Rewards Revamp: The Quantum Pass and Leaderboard are now more rewarding, offering the chance to earn the new buildings."
Quantum Pass: with the step change (30 --> 40), I don't see it more rewarding.
Quick comparison:
New page 15 is equivalent to page 20 of last championship and we now obtain :
  • Medals = 30 k vs 28k - only positive change (however no medal winnable through rewards chests). Still gonna take years for most of expansion...
  • Shards = 2.5k vs 3.8k --> minus 1.3k, to telate with the introduction of QI Spring 2024 Epic Selection Kit if you buy all end of incursion rewards chests...
  • FSP : 5 vs 7
  • Kit colossus: 10 vs 12
Leaderboard: is there any change? Except the change of neo-building of course.

  • "Reward Chests Adjusted: Easier access to free reward chests and a special QI Spring 2024 Epic Selection Kit for dedicated adventurers."
I don't see lowering the required progress points as a good change. Having them at 40 & 160 was not a bad calibration imo and an incentive to get guildmates on the QI board.


On the reward topic, I wonder if the evolution may be to always have 2 incursion types with rotunda/winner's plazza or sentinel/tactician, and have the main reward change with the QI era (Iron being colossus)?
Or are there real differences between Dragon valley and Basilisk Peak (not sure we'll know this, I guess most guilds took Drake mountains).
Click to expand...
The resl problem with fewer shards is that many strategy are based on the assumption that you are able to replenish the initial 500 shards in time for the next incursion.
This change will push some player that where barely able to do that below that level. It incentivize NOT spending any shard on the game in incursion you are not able to play the game consistently (vacation holidays etc.). I suppose I should start writing down a strategy that uses no shards at all.

Not sure on all level but the new incursion with new building (cannot remember the name) has more nodes to complete level (level 1 from 7 to 9) with more progress required to complete a level (level 1 from 1040 to 1330, +28%). This means that guilds can expect to reach a lower level at the end of an incursion.
 

Atosha

Merchant
Fury the Avenger said:
The resl problem with fewer shards is that many strategy are based on the assumption that you are able to replenish the initial 500 shards in time for the next incursion.
This change will push some player that where barely able to do that below that level. It incentivize NOT spending any shard on the game in incursion you are not able to play the game consistently (vacation holidays etc.). I suppose I should start writing down a strategy that uses no shards at all.

Not sure on all level but the new incursion with new building (cannot remember the name) has more nodes to complete level (level 1 from 7 to 9) with more progress required to complete a level (level 1 from 1040 to 1330, +28%). This means that guilds can expect to reach a lower level at the end of an incursion.
Click to expand...
I agree.
Decrease of shards as rewards is a mistake in the sense they will slow more players in their start with the city building phase. There's a big risk to loose some more players because of that - and it's not like QI is a huge success with a lot of players greatly involved already.
That, plus the incentive to buy chests with epic kit suggests Inno wants more people to buy shards, not sure it will happen though... I'd say it is pushing things too far.

On second thoughts, I wonder if the threshold lowering of the free chests is not made because of that shards decrease, anticipating lower average score.
 

Traveler64

Squire
I was just able to login and check the QI pass rewards. I was excited at the "more rewarding" aspect of the announcement, but in what sense is an increase in the number of medals be described as "more rewarding", as if the entire pass rewards got better!? On the other hand, it has become more DIFFICULT to get the Neo Colossus Selection Kits as they now require more progress. Please revert.
 
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Thunderdome

Thunderdome

Emperor
Pericles the Lion said:
The top guilds will progress further than the weaker guilds. But, what is wrong with that? That's how it should be. This isn't a matter of a tougher guild beating up on a weaker one (as is debated regarding GBG). Instead, it's a matter of guilds making steady progress towards gaining the strengths needed to be successful in QI.
Click to expand...
It's more a numbers game rather than "strength", a steady strategy than going all out, and timing and availability would determine the outcome in the end.
Traveler64 said:
I was just able to login and check the QI pass rewards. I was excited at the "more rewarding" aspect of the announcement, but in what sense is an increase in the number of medals be described as "more rewarding", as if the entire pass rewards got better!? On the other hand, it has become more DIFFICULT to get the Neo Colossus Selection Kits as they now require more progress.
Click to expand...
All part of Inno's "One Step Forward, Three Steps Backward" regimen.
 

Fury the Avenger

Baronet
After playing for a few day the new map I would ay that the most important improvement is the increase in the node reward.
They are all relevant finally.

Quantum coin and quantum supplies now have useful amount (not big but useful). Even if normal node fp reward was reduce, while advance node was increased.
 
Norde

Norde

Merchant
Fury the Avenger said:
After playing for a few day the new map I would ay that the most important improvement is the increase in the node reward.
They are all relevant finally.

Quantum coin and quantum supplies now have useful amount (not big but useful). Even if normal node fp reward was reduce, while advance node was increased.
Click to expand...
which level? Because I saw some screenshot on discord: Lv4 normal node -> 2k coins 1k supplies | Lv1 normal node -> 2k coins 1k supplies
While it is good at Lv1, but Lv4 ...
 

Fury the Avenger

Baronet
Norde said:
which level? Because I saw some screenshot on discord: Lv4 normal node -> 2k coins 1k supplies | Lv1 normal node -> 2k coins 1k supplies
While it is good at Lv1, but Lv4 ...
Click to expand...
I was speaking of level one.
But even level 4 isn't as bad as it was.

The old value for level 4 normal node where 1236 coins and 929 supplies, quantum action 3095
The new values for level 1 normal node are 2000 coins, 1000 supplies and 3500 quantum action. Those are useful values. I can build nothing with 236 coins (I can use the 1k, maybe). The old value of level one were even more of a joke: 325 coins and 250 supplies. You can do nothing with those until you have won them 5-10 times, when it's really too late to do any good... probably.
 
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